2013

[Sammy Sofa]

Lord, that Fecal League [expletive] is dick punch-worthy.

[davell]

If we're going to win73 games this year and 83 next year, before making a strong run by adding guys at all points between now and then, I'd just as soon have 65 win seasons personally. But I think we'll be able to add what's needed to contend, quicker than most do, admittedly. The end result: Everyone's on the same page here, it's just in the how we're getting there, that we have two completely opposite sides on. But as much as I'm for the apparent way things are headed, if we're not pushing for the playoffs in 2014 and beginning a dominant run in 2015, I'll be pissed as hell. Because even I'll admit that's more than enough time to get this thing done in.

[XZero771679666304]

I don't know if preferring the team to be winning but willing to accept a lot of losing if someone promises you vague future gains as a result qualifies as a high-pressure environment.

 

Here is what I do know: It sucks to watch the Cubs losing 85 games nearly as much as it does to watch them lose 100. If one promises even a marginal gain over the other, I'm not sure why you wouldn't take it. I'm not going to openly root to lose out loud like a twonk or take "pleasure" in losing, but the top-3 draft pick makes the pill a little easier to swallow.

 

I also know that if I were to draw up a plan to maxmize wins next year (given the projected FA offerings), that plan almost certainly not totally jive for what I think would maximize wins in the long term. Sometimes you can optimize for the short and long terms with the same plan, but quite often you can't. Quite often moves you might make to win immediately are contraindicated by long term sense. And when your best short term plans promise only an outside chance of any meaningful improvement (contention), I'm not sure why you would sacrifice your long term interests.

 

 

As for the "high pressure environment" argument: the difference to me is that 20 years ago, not only were there no expections for the short term, there were not expectations for the long term. The franchise was moribund, no one was expecting anything, ever. You could ride out a 6-year deal with no expectation ever being under any real pressure.

 

Now, there is recent memory of being good, recent memory of having expectations, recently high payrolls and a new, high profile front office and the scrutiny that comes with it. I think the expectation, not just from some of us, but around the game, is that the Cubs are a couple of years from ramping it up and becoming a perennial power.

 

Now 10+ years an the past, we mave have had fond hope that such a thing might happen, but that it would have almost had to have been by some bizarre confleunce of circumstances, but no real hope the franchise was going to get serious about winning. As a fan, you showed up or tuned in with only the hope you might see a great individual performance from Sandberg, Sosa or whoever, and you really didn't think about the future, not seriously anyway.

 

I think the bottom line here is that while this year and next year are a low pressure environment, but that won't last, and everyone knows it. This isn't a low expectation culture, it's a short grace period. If this were the same culture it was 15 years ago, Jim Hendry would still be GM, and no one would question why.

 

There might be low expectations for next year just as their might have been low expectations for any given year from the 1970-2000, but that's as far as the similarities go.

[XZero771679666304]

But as much as I'm for the apparent way things are headed, if we're not pushing for the playoffs in 2014 and beginning a dominant run in 2015, I'll be pissed as hell. Because even I'll admit that's more than enough time to get this thing done in.

 

 

No one is going to tolerate this thing going beyond next year. And I don't think they'll have to.

[Soul]

But as much as I'm for the apparent way things are headed, if we're not pushing for the playoffs in 2014 and beginning a dominant run in 2015, I'll be pissed as hell. Because even I'll admit that's more than enough time to get this thing done in.

 

 

No one is going to tolerate this thing going beyond next year. And I don't think they'll have to.

 

Whatever they get done in our system over the next 2 offseasons, they are going to have to open the wallet a little and grab the right FAs to supplement.

 

I think that's where this discussion was heading. How much does being bad affect a FA who is considering options, in MLB.

[Guest]

But as much as I'm for the apparent way things are headed, if we're not pushing for the playoffs in 2014 and beginning a dominant run in 2015, I'll be pissed as hell. Because even I'll admit that's more than enough time to get this thing done in.

 

 

No one is going to tolerate this thing going beyond next year. And I don't think they'll have to.

 

Are they even going to be that bad next year? I'm pretty sure we'll sign 2 of those 2nd tier starters... which will make for a pretty nice rotation after Shark and Garza. And I think we'll give BJ Upton a serious look, given the fact that he's relatively young and in his prime, should provide more value than he'll cost, and plays one of our 2 complete black hole positions.

Edited October 2, 2012 by David

[sneakypower]

personally, i had a lot more enjoyable time watching this year's team than say, the 2010 team

 

Soto was awesome, but other than Castro, a couple relievers (and i guess Wells), it was pretty much a completely wasted year, with no signs really of any future promise- just OK players getting older

 

this year had Castro, Shark, Rizzo, Castillo, Garza, Jackson, Stewart, Valbuena, bullpen kids at least providing varying levels of intrigue, in that you know several of these guys are going to be future contributors on the next team worth a damn

 

edit: this is kind of going along with xzero's point above

[davell]

Levine mentioned in his chat today we had an interest in Lonnie Chisenhall previously. As far as 3B goes, I'd be pretty happy if we could get him. I'm not sure Upton gets sealt, unless they're willing to take a discount off their asking price.

[Guest]

Levine mentioned in his chat today we had an interest in Lonnie Chisenhall previously. As far as 3B goes, I'd be pretty happy if we could get him. I'm not sure Upton gets sealt, unless they're willing to take a discount off their asking price.

 

Not sure if you misinterpreted that, but I meant BJ, btw.

[SouthSideRyan]

But as much as I'm for the apparent way things are headed, if we're not pushing for the playoffs in 2014 and beginning a dominant run in 2015, I'll be pissed as hell. Because even I'll admit that's more than enough time to get this thing done in.

 

 

No one is going to tolerate this thing going beyond next year. And I don't think they'll have to.

 

Are they even going to be that bad next year? I'm pretty sure we'll sign 2 of those 2nd tier starters... which will make for a pretty nice rotation after Shark and Garza. And I think we'll give BJ Upton a serious look, given the fact that he's relatively young and in his prime, should provide more value than he'll cost, and plays one of our 2 complete black hole positions.

 

But then we might miss out on draft budget.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

But as much as I'm for the apparent way things are headed, if we're not pushing for the playoffs in 2014 and beginning a dominant run in 2015, I'll be pissed as hell. Because even I'll admit that's more than enough time to get this thing done in.

 

 

No one is going to tolerate this thing going beyond next year. And I don't think they'll have to.

 

Are they even going to be that bad next year? I'm pretty sure we'll sign 2 of those 2nd tier starters... which will make for a pretty nice rotation after Shark and Garza. And I think we'll give BJ Upton a serious look, given the fact that he's relatively young and in his prime, should provide more value than he'll cost, and plays one of our 2 complete black hole positions.

 

It's up to the front office if we're this bad again. I mean, it's hard to be *this* bad, but we could be close to as bad. All they have to do is give Brett Jackson CF and ignore the bullpen again. Then dump what's left of the rotation at the trade deadline.

[XZero771679666304]

But as much as I'm for the apparent way things are headed, if we're not pushing for the playoffs in 2014 and beginning a dominant run in 2015, I'll be pissed as hell. Because even I'll admit that's more than enough time to get this thing done in.

 

 

No one is going to tolerate this thing going beyond next year. And I don't think they'll have to.

 

Are they even going to be that bad next year? I'm pretty sure we'll sign 2 of those 2nd tier starters... which will make for a pretty nice rotation after Shark and Garza. And I think we'll give BJ Upton a serious look, given the fact that he's relatively young and in his prime, should provide more value than he'll cost, and plays one of our 2 complete black hole positions.

 

It's up to the front office if we're this bad again. I mean, it's hard to be *this* bad, but we could be close to as bad. All they have to do is give Brett Jackson CF and ignore the bullpen again. Then dump what's left of the rotation at the trade deadline.

 

 

They can definitely improve the team for next year without compromising the long term, and I expect them to. I don't think they can turn it into a winning team without getting stupid, but there's no reason for another 100-loss abomination. I think by addressing the rotation, CF and maybe the pen, The Cubs could win 75 games next year. The FA market for position players is just too barren to expect much help there.

 

I expect them to add an older player or two with an eye to flipping them at the deadline, but there are a handful of nice long term options as well. I have a hard time seeing them hand the CF job to BJax, given the red flags. It might not be Upton (though I hope it is), but I would be surprised if a CF or two aren't brought in.

 

Either way, this offseason will go a long way in determining whether the goodwill many of us have for the new regime continues, or if more of us start getting restless. They've nearly cleared the decks and stocked the lower levels of the system, but it's going to be time to add some good talent that is MLB ready or close to it.

[Guest]

I feel like we should do something fun like figuring out potential WAR totals if we went with the somewhat reasonable Upton + two non-Greinke starters plan.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I feel like we should do something fun like figuring out potential WAR totals if we went with the somewhat reasonable Upton + two non-Greinke starters plan.

 

As soon as the season is over, I'm going to do a massive post outlining, among other things, the 2012 Cubs' WAR by position and outlining why we were so bad. It'll be a nice jumping-off point for what to do in 2013.

[Sammy Sofa]

I feel like we should do something fun like figuring out potential WAR totals if we went with the somewhat reasonable Upton + two non-Greinke starters plan.

 

As soon as the season is over, I'm going to do a massive post outlining, among other things, the 2012 Cubs' WAR by position and outlining why we were so bad. It'll be a nice jumping-off point for what to do in 2013.

 

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/steve-carell-no.gif

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I feel like we should do something fun like figuring out potential WAR totals if we went with the somewhat reasonable Upton + two non-Greinke starters plan.

 

As soon as the season is over, I'm going to do a massive post outlining, among other things, the 2012 Cubs' WAR by position and outlining why we were so bad. It'll be a nice jumping-off point for what to do in 2013.

 

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/steve-carell-no.gif

 

I'll dedicate it to you.

[XZero771679666304]

I think we all have a pretty strong grasp on why this team is where it is.

[Sammy Sofa]

Let's pair it up with davell telling us his hopes for 2013 for the bajillionth time.

[davell]

Let's pair it up with davell telling us his hopes for 2013 for the bajillionth time.

I'll use live action smilies and possibly some porn for the landmark bajillionth one.

[WrigleyField 22]

I don't know if preferring the team to be winning but willing to accept a lot of losing if someone promises you vague future gains as a result qualifies as a high-pressure environment.

 

Here is what I do know: It sucks to watch the Cubs losing 85 games nearly as much as it does to watch them lose 100. If one promises even a marginal gain over the other, I'm not sure why you wouldn't take it. I'm not going to openly root to lose out loud like a twonk or take "pleasure" in losing, but the top-3 draft pick makes the pill a little easier to swallow.

What would really suck is wasting a few years tanking and then realizing it probably will take one "85 loss season" anyways. Its just highly improbable we can go from 100 losses to 90-95 win team. And if we do, its almost guaranteed to happen because of development of young players already on our roster exploding into star players. So it just makes sense to add players when they are available because FA is almost always scarce of resources. The marginal draft slot just doesn't make up for a lost season. Besides if Theo's plan for sustained success and minor league development requires top 5 picks we're screwed.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Backtobanks]

personally, i had a lot more enjoyable time watching this year's team than say, the 2010 team

 

Soto was awesome, but other than Castro, a couple relievers (and i guess Wells), it was pretty much a completely wasted year, with no signs really of any future promise- just OK players getting older

 

this year had Castro, Shark, Rizzo, Castillo, Garza, Jackson, Stewart, Valbuena, bullpen kids at least providing varying levels of intrigue, in that you know several of these guys are going to be future contributors on the next team worth a damn

 

edit: this is kind of going along with xzero's point above

 

Castro, Rizzo, Castillo, and Shark might be future contributors. Jackson, Stewart, Valbuena, and most of the bullpen kids certainly don't look like they offer much.

[Sammy Sofa]

Castro, Rizzo and Shark might be future contributors.

 

Wait, what? MIGHT? What the [expletive] laid its eggs in your brain?

[Backtobanks]

If we're going to win73 games this year and 83 next year, before making a strong run by adding guys at all points between now and then, I'd just as soon have 65 win seasons personally. But I think we'll be able to add what's needed to contend, quicker than most do, admittedly. The end result: Everyone's on the same page here, it's just in the how we're getting there, that we have two completely opposite sides on. But as much as I'm for the apparent way things are headed, if we're not pushing for the playoffs in 2014 and beginning a dominant run in 2015, I'll be pissed as hell. Because even I'll admit that's more than enough time to get this thing done in.

 

73 wins this year - did I miss something? The point you are making is what I've been saying all along - the timeline bothers me, especially if any of our "sure thing" 18-20 yr olds don't pan out. It's not easy going from 190+ losses over 2 years to pushing for the playoffs the next followed by a dominant run in 2015. Theo needs to start filling holes this offseason with players that can contribute in the future (Upton, Chisenhall, etc.).

[Sammy Sofa]

Oh, THOSE guys definitely can contribute to the Cubs' future, but Starlin Castro only might do the same.

[Sammy Sofa]

especially if any of our "sure thing" 18-20 yr olds don't pan out.

 

Name these players that the FO office have even remotely come close to declaring as "sure things."