Who many years are we going to suck?

[UMFan83]

I can't see anything near .500 in 2013. Where are the solid starting performances going to come from, over the course of 162 games?

 

I dunno it didnt seem to be that hard to find solid starting performances on this team that wasn't built to be anything but awful. It's possible that Garza, Shark and Wood will all be back. Shark and Garza should be solid most nights. Wood could go either way, if he is decent now you just have to find next year's Maholm and you are in good shape. Probably won't find someone out there that will put up a sub-3 ERA 2/3rds of the way through the season like Dempster did but I don't know if that's necessary to field a .500 team. I would think that the rotation that the Cubs have been trotting that out there this year is good enough to make the playoffs with a solid offense and pen.

[questionmarkgrace]

I still maintain it will be 3- 5 years beginning with this year. I think Garza is traded in the off season. Which really depletes an already poor pitching staff. And who knows if the talent we get in return for him will be ready to pitch next year. Dont expect the cubs to spend alot of money this off season either. Aint happening. Maybe a pick up similar to Maholm is in order a buy low guy we could trade later for young assets, but people in other threads clamoring for Bj Upton really do not understand the path the cubs have set themselves on. Trading soriano at the waiver deadline, trading Garza in the offseason, and a few small moves in free agency pretty much guarantee a high draft pick for the 2014 draft. Plus its not like any of the guys we got in trades this last week are making us significantly better for next year.

[XZero771679666304]

I still maintain it will be 3- 5 years beginning with this year.

 

I can't envision a scenario other than total, system-wide injury meltdown in which the Cubs contend any later than 2015.

 

I see next year as a "seeing what we've got" year (in players like Vitters, Jackson, Castillo, a fully stetched out Shark, etc.). There will be a decent amount of (raw, young) talent on the roster, and there are a number of decent SP on the market that can be signed to help fill out the rotation. I think 2013 is another "lost" season, but one that will be a lot more interesting to watch with an outside shot at respectability.

 

If 2013 goes reasonably well (one of BJax/Vitters look like they'll be decent MLers, Shark progresses a bit Rizzo and Castro keep it up/improve), I think we'll see Theo/Jed make legitimate forays into the FA/trade market for solid ML assets. There are handful of potential impact players (SP like Lincecum and Johnson, position players like Ellsbury if BJax can't stop K'ing) and we'll have deeper pool of prospects to trade from. I see 2014 as a year where the Cubs should be on the fringe or in contention for at least a WC spot.

 

By 2015 the Cubs should be solidly in contention for a playoff spot.

[Tracer Bullet]

i guarantee the cubs win the world series next year

 

I'm on this bandwagon. I'll even bet rocket's life on it.

[Guest]

3-5 years? that would mean things went terribly wrong

[C.C.]

And "Who Many" seriously, edit that.

 

 

You mean "Howe Many".

 

We are laughing at you, not with you.

at least your laughing.

 

Do you have OCD? I do, and sometimes I spell things wrong on purpose or say something I know is incorrect even though I don't truly want to.

 

Good god man. It's a spelling mistake chill. Stay on the subject.

[Cubs Fan Dan]

I envision a busy offseason for the Cubs, a slightly improved record in 2013 and then moving towards all in in 2014.

 

How they could contend in 2013: Rizzo continues to be a masher (not at his current pace) but puts up his first full season line of .280/.340/.540, Castro continues to improve power numbers and hitting aproach, he gets back to .300/.340 but improves slugging to .470ish and improves defensively. BJax comes up and posts a similar avg/obp to his AAA #'s. Welington remains healthy and emerges as starting catcher putting up solid power numbers. Sign some high upside players after a down year (i.e Upton, Liriano, McCarthy, A.Sanchez)

Keep Garza, Shark, Wood as a starting point for the rotation. Re-sign Camp, to go with Russel, Cabrera, Beliveau, Corpas, and Marmol.

 

What I see really happening: Garza traded, Marmol traded, Soriano traded, some potential prospect for prospect deals to try to add mid-minor league Arms. Pieces like Szczur, Jackson, Lake, Ha, Vitters etc.. Cubs go into next year extremely young with high upside, continue to tweak roster throughout the year then fill in remainder of holes in 2013 post season free agency.

 

 

I think 2014 the Cubs become a perenial division contender and possibly sneak into wild card. Their conerstone players in Rizzo and Castro is a great starting point.

[rocket]

i guarantee the cubs win the world series next year

 

I'm on this bandwagon. I'll even bet rocket's life on it.

 

YOU'RE ON

[biittner77]

Next year is when the whole "Dual Fronts" strategy becomes more of a reality and less a bunch of BS. Even the dumbest meatball probably understood the necessity of blowing up the current team. Now that they've done that, those same fans are going to want to see some measure of progress. The Cubs can sign a FA this year and not lose their 1st round pick. They have holes at OF and SP that won't be filled internally for at least a couple years.

 

sign a SP

extend Garza

have one of Vitters or Jackson fill a hole at a position of need

trade some young talent for a long term solution at the other position of need

 

Do that and they ought to be able to at least flirt with .500

[Old Style]

Speaking for the meatballs out there, this thread is [expletive] depressing.

[jersey cubs fan]

Next year is when the whole "Dual Fronts" strategy becomes more of a reality and less a bunch of BS. Even the dumbest meatball probably understood the necessity of blowing up the current team.

 

I still don't understand.

[Tryptamine]

2013 is going to be pretty similar to this year, but with a lot more of the younger players like Vitters etc getting the playing time. I wont be at all surprised if Theo brings in a young impact type of player this off season. 2014 is the year I think this team because decent enough to hang around .500 thanks to a few FAs. 2015 is the year I expect this team to be a legitimately good 90 win type of team. If all goes well this would also be the year that guys like Baez, Almora, Soler etc can help out the the team at some point during the year.

[C.C.]

2013 is going to be pretty similar to this year, but with a lot more of the younger players like Vitters etc getting the playing time. I wont be at all surprised if Theo brings in a young impact type of player this off season. 2014 is the year I think this team because decent enough to hang around .500 thanks to a few FAs. 2015 is the year I expect this team to be a legitimately good 90 win type of team. If all goes well this would also be the year that guys like Baez, Almora, Soler etc can help out the the team at some point during the year.

 

Man, we are relying way too much on these unproven guys to actually produce. Esp to win 90 games. To many if's.

[toonsterwu]

I envision a busy offseason for the Cubs, a slightly improved record in 2013 and then moving towards all in in 2014.

 

How they could contend in 2013: Rizzo continues to be a masher (not at his current pace) but puts up his first full season line of .280/.340/.540, Castro continues to improve power numbers and hitting aproach, he gets back to .300/.340 but improves slugging to .470ish and improves defensively. BJax comes up and posts a similar avg/obp to his AAA #'s. Welington remains healthy and emerges as starting catcher putting up solid power numbers. Sign some high upside players after a down year (i.e Upton, Liriano, McCarthy, A.Sanchez)

Keep Garza, Shark, Wood as a starting point for the rotation. Re-sign Camp, to go with Russel, Cabrera, Beliveau, Corpas, and Marmol.

 

What I see really happening: Garza traded, Marmol traded, Soriano traded, some potential prospect for prospect deals to try to add mid-minor league Arms. Pieces like Szczur, Jackson, Lake, Ha, Vitters etc.. Cubs go into next year extremely young with high upside, continue to tweak roster throughout the year then fill in remainder of holes in 2013 post season free agency.

 

I think 2014 the Cubs become a perenial division contender and possibly sneak into wild card. Their conerstone players in Rizzo and Castro is a great starting point.

 

I'm not sure Castro can make a leap to a .170 ISOP next year, but ... playing this hypothetical (how to compete next year) ... for the Cubs to ... on paper ... contend, I think

 

a) They keep Garza. Garza/Shark looks like a solid enough tandem to top the rotation.

 

b) They sign 2 veteran starters, 1 fairly big money item. You cannot go into the year expecting Wood to be any more than an end of the rotation guy.

 

c) They sign one veteran pen arm ... if not 2. I HATE signing pen arms. I really do. But they really could use another stable veteran arm that has some late inning ability, unless someone emerges. The bigger question is what happens with Marmol. I think a strong finish, and he's gone this winter if they can get something decent (and heck ... I think there's a tiny chance that he could be an August trade).

 

d) They need two bats - either 1 top of the order bat to go with DeJesus (with Castro batting in the middle of the lineup again), or 2 middle of the order bats (assuming Soriano is moved ... if he's back, you'd be hoping that he can replicate his power).

 

If all five of these things happen, I think this is a competitive squad. Don't expect it to go this way, though.

[Ivy.n.Denver]

Pointing out typos is so funny and cool. :roll:

[jersey cubs fan]

what an odd out of nowhere post

[Ivy.n.Denver]

what an odd out of nowhere post

 

You seem like a smart guy, I'm surprised you can't make the connection.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Pointing out typos is so funny and cool. :roll:

Yes, that's exactly why people do it, you weirdo.

[C.C.]

Back on the subject guys. Let's not start attacking posters now.

[biittner77]

2013 is going to be pretty similar to this year, but with a lot more of the younger players like Vitters etc getting the playing time. I wont be at all surprised if Theo brings in a young impact type of player this off season. 2014 is the year I think this team because decent enough to hang around .500 thanks to a few FAs. 2015 is the year I expect this team to be a legitimately good 90 win type of team. If all goes well this would also be the year that guys like Baez, Almora, Soler etc can help out the the team at some point during the year.

 

Man, we are relying way too much on these unproven guys to actually produce. Esp to win 90 games. To many if's.

 

Which makes me wonder if at least some of them will get moved for more immediate help. Baez, Almora and Soler would have to be promoted pretty aggressively to even be Sept. call ups in 2015. I have a hard time believing that the plan is to be bad for 3 more seasons waiting, hoping for all of these guys to pan out.

 

re Gooney:

 

Maybe not understand the necessity but understand the rationale. I think if they could have gotten Cepedes , signed Fielder and won the bid for Darvish they would have been right in the thick of things.

 

I don't believe that they are going to let the rebuilding process be a Tampa Bay like drawn out ordeal for the fans.

[C.C.]

2013 is going to be pretty similar to this year, but with a lot more of the younger players like Vitters etc getting the playing time. I wont be at all surprised if Theo brings in a young impact type of player this off season. 2014 is the year I think this team because decent enough to hang around .500 thanks to a few FAs. 2015 is the year I expect this team to be a legitimately good 90 win type of team. If all goes well this would also be the year that guys like Baez, Almora, Soler etc can help out the the team at some point during the year.

 

Man, we are relying way too much on these unproven guys to actually produce. Esp to win 90 games. To many if's.

 

Which makes me wonder if at least some of them will get moved for more immediate help. Baez, Almora and Soler would have to be promoted pretty aggressively to even be Sept. call ups in 2015. I have a hard time believing that the plan is to be bad for 3 more seasons waiting, hoping for all of these guys to pan out.

 

re Gooney:

 

Maybe not understand the necessity but understand the rationale. I think if they could have gotten Cepedes , signed Fielder and won the bid for Darvish they would have been right in the thick of things.

 

I don't believe that they are going to let the rebuilding process be a Tampa Bay like drawn out ordeal for the fans.

 

There is no reason we should unless we don't have the resources. We are behaving like a low market team.

[C.C.]

I envision a busy offseason for the Cubs, a slightly improved record in 2013 and then moving towards all in in 2014.

 

How they could contend in 2013: Rizzo continues to be a masher (not at his current pace) but puts up his first full season line of .280/.340/.540, Castro continues to improve power numbers and hitting aproach, he gets back to .300/.340 but improves slugging to .470ish and improves defensively. BJax comes up and posts a similar avg/obp to his AAA #'s. Welington remains healthy and emerges as starting catcher putting up solid power numbers. Sign some high upside players after a down year (i.e Upton, Liriano, McCarthy, A.Sanchez)

Keep Garza, Shark, Wood as a starting point for the rotation. Re-sign Camp, to go with Russel, Cabrera, Beliveau, Corpas, and Marmol.

 

What I see really happening: Garza traded, Marmol traded, Soriano traded, some potential prospect for prospect deals to try to add mid-minor league Arms. Pieces like Szczur, Jackson, Lake, Ha, Vitters etc.. Cubs go into next year extremely young with high upside, continue to tweak roster throughout the year then fill in remainder of holes in 2013 post season free agency.

 

 

I think 2014 the Cubs become a perenial division contender and possibly sneak into wild card. Their conerstone players in Rizzo and Castro is a great starting point.

 

You have no idea what the upside is? Sorry guys this 3-5 years crap is crap.

[Guest]

2013 is going to be pretty similar to this year, but with a lot more of the younger players like Vitters etc getting the playing time. I wont be at all surprised if Theo brings in a young impact type of player this off season. 2014 is the year I think this team because decent enough to hang around .500 thanks to a few FAs. 2015 is the year I expect this team to be a legitimately good 90 win type of team. If all goes well this would also be the year that guys like Baez, Almora, Soler etc can help out the the team at some point during the year.

 

Man, we are relying way too much on these unproven guys to actually produce. Esp to win 90 games. To many if's.

 

Which makes me wonder if at least some of them will get moved for more immediate help. Baez, Almora and Soler would have to be promoted pretty aggressively to even be Sept. call ups in 2015. I have a hard time believing that the plan is to be bad for 3 more seasons waiting, hoping for all of these guys to pan out.

 

re Gooney:

 

Maybe not understand the necessity but understand the rationale. I think if they could have gotten Cepedes , signed Fielder and won the bid for Darvish they would have been right in the thick of things.

 

I don't believe that they are going to let the rebuilding process be a Tampa Bay like drawn out ordeal for the fans.

 

 

What level of production have we gotten out of 1B this year?

[XZero771679666304]

 

 

What level of production have we gotten out of 1B this year?

 

Pretty damned close to Fielder (and Pujols), even with LaHair's June.

 

LaHair + Rizzo = 2.1 fWAR

Fielder = 2.4

Pujols = 2.6

 

What difference would signing one of those two have made? Not much.

[neely crenshaw]

I just don't see Garza being here. They have to restock the farm system because of international and draft rules, you have to make trades to do this unless you want to wait 5 or more years. If they trade Garza for prospects, they then sign a FA top end guy. So they have prospects and a top pitcher.

I'm sure they if they can they'll do the same with Soriano and Marmol..either of which should clear waivers this season if they can find a deal.

 

we could have fielder and pujols and we wouldn't have contended.