Josh Vitters arriving soon?

[KingCubsFan]

if we trade barney, valbuena sliding over to second and vitters playing third next year wouldn't be too bad.

we're going to get 50 walks from our whole infield combined

 

ostensibly, rizzo by himself will get more than that.

 

Likely, yes. He hasn't shown that in the majors yet (he's swung at anything and everything so far) but his minor league track record would suggest 50-65 walks in a full season.

He also won't be seeing 80% first-pitch strikes his entire career.

[pccubfan]

Also, not to bag on Vitters because I like him and want him to succeed, but it's the PCL!! Everyone always points this out when guys like Jason Dubois, Scott McLain, Micah Hoffpauir, and Bryan LaHair dominate, so it has to take a little luster off what he's doing.

You mean the 2012 National League All-Star 1B Bryan LaHair?

 

I'm pretty sure that's who he means. The guy who out OPSed Vitters by 200 points.

 

To be fair, was that a 22 year old LaHair in AAA?

[jersey cubs fan]

Also, not to bag on Vitters because I like him and want him to succeed, but it's the PCL!! Everyone always points this out when guys like Jason Dubois, Scott McLain, Micah Hoffpauir, and Bryan LaHair dominate, so it has to take a little luster off what he's doing.

You mean the 2012 National League All-Star 1B Bryan LaHair?

 

I'm pretty sure that's who he means. The guy who out OPSed Vitters by 200 points.

 

To be fair, was that a 22 year old LaHair in AAA?

 

No, he only out OPSed him by 50 his first time through AAA.

[pccubfan]

Also, not to bag on Vitters because I like him and want him to succeed, but it's the PCL!! Everyone always points this out when guys like Jason Dubois, Scott McLain, Micah Hoffpauir, and Bryan LaHair dominate, so it has to take a little luster off what he's doing.

You mean the 2012 National League All-Star 1B Bryan LaHair?

 

I'm pretty sure that's who he means. The guy who out OPSed Vitters by 200 points.

 

To be fair, was that a 22 year old LaHair in AAA?

 

No, he only out OPSed him by 50 his first time through AAA.

 

He was promoted the last couple months of the season, as a 24 year old. How'd he do the following year as a 25 year old playing his first full year at AAA? Looks to me like Vitters has out OPSed him to date by a good 100 points.

 

I'm not pushing the idea that Vitters is ready because I don't think he is, but you can at least be fair in comparing two players.

[jersey cubs fan]

He was promoted the last couple months of the season, as a 24 year old.

 

It was 230 PA, plenty of time to be considered. And I was mostly joking around in response to the All Star LaHair comment.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

You mean the 2012 Pacific Coast League All-Star 3B Josh Vitters?

[davell]

Vitters definitely needs the full season in AAA. He's showing solid improvement and he's struggled with each midseason promotion, as it is. Reward him in September, if anything, but give him all year to kepp working on things.

[jersey cubs fan]

no, the other one

[CubColtPacer]

if we trade barney, valbuena sliding over to second and vitters playing third next year wouldn't be too bad.

we're going to get 50 walks from our whole infield combined

 

ostensibly, rizzo by himself will get more than that.

 

Likely, yes. He hasn't shown that in the majors yet (he's swung at anything and everything so far) but his minor league track record would suggest 50-65 walks in a full season.

He also won't be seeing 80% first-pitch strikes his entire career.

 

The first pitch strike percentage just tracks how many times the count goes to 0-1 or the first pitch is put into play. So if Rizzo swings at the first pitch, that's automatically a strike for that statistic whether the pitch would have been called a ball or not.

 

Rizzo has swung at 59.7% of pitches so far (easily the most among position players) and he's swung at 49.5% of pitches outside the zone (also easily the most among position players). Obviously a very small sample size, but he's been really aggressive so far, which is reflected in his tiny walk and strikeout numbers.

[Elrhino]

Vitters' numbers were rarely really that bad.

 

The big problems were two half-seasons that came after premature promotions and were paired with horrible BABIPs (A+ in 2009, when he hit 238/260/344 in 196 PA with a .256 BABIP, and AA in 2010 when he hit 223/292/383 in 228 PAs with a .247 BABIP). The sub-3% BB rates early in his career were also concerning, but he's been more like a 5-7% guy since 2010.

 

A lot of his other minor league seasons have been underrated, in particular last year when he held his own as one of the youngest players in a pitcher-friendly AA league.

 

He's always been almost a perfect storm of underratedness:

 

A) He's been young for his league every step of the way

B) He was drafted very young so it seems like he's been around forever

C) People have huge expectations for a No. 3 overall pick, despite the fact that few of them become stars

D) He's got a set of tools (especially his hit tool) that won't always produce gaudy minor league slash lines but will likely play up at every level moreso than a fast guy or a take-and-rake with contact issues.

 

 

No, his numbers haven't been awful, but they haven't been nearly what they could be. I've never been under the impression that he was overmatched or overrated, but that he was getting in his own way. I definitely have felt like his ability to make contact has been a double edged sword.

 

My feeling has long been that if he'd swing at fewer pitcher's pitches at work counts into his favor, the power would follow. We're seeing some of that now (how much of that is him and how much is the PCL remains to be seen, but the correlation is encouraging).

 

I've often been surprised at how many people write him off, given his age.

 

 

I was always optimistic that his power would develop just by physically maturing a little bit. I saw him when he was 19 years old in Daytona and remember thinking that whatever his listed weight was (I believe it was 190) it looked about 15 lbs. generous. It was strange to see a Top 3 draft pick corner infielder with that kind of physique (or lack there of). To me suggesting otherwise suggest a pretty apparent agenda (as well as name callling).

[Hawk4Hall]

At some point you have to just try him out and see if he's going to be good. Vitters isn't 20 years old anymore and if he's got to show if he can play at the big league level sometime. Might as well be now when the Cubs are totally out of it.

[Guest]

At some point you have to just try him out and see if he's going to be good. Vitters isn't 20 years old anymore and if he's got to show if he can play at the big league level sometime. Might as well be now when the Cubs are totally out of it.

Why not give him a shot when he's ready?

[SouthSideRyan]

At some point you have to just try him out and see if he's going to be good. Vitters isn't 20 years old anymore and if he's got to show if he can play at the big league level sometime. Might as well be now when the Cubs are totally out of it.

 

He's not 20 years old, but he is 22.

[Guest]

At some point you have to just try him out and see if he's going to be good. Vitters isn't 20 years old anymore and if he's got to show if he can play at the big league level sometime. Might as well be now when the Cubs are totally out of it.

 

He's not 20 years old, but he is 22.

 

And in AAA. What an odd comment.

[jersey cubs fan]

At some point you have to just try him out and see if he's going to be good. Vitters isn't 20 years old anymore and if he's got to show if he can play at the big league level sometime. Might as well be now when the Cubs are totally out of it.

 

This is something you say about a 24/25 year old. Simply "not being 20 years old anymore" is meaningless. He's only 22. And he was aggressively pushed along the way every year before 2011. They've got plenty of time to see what he has and no reason whatsoever to even consider calling him up now.

[Hawk4Hall]

At some point you have to just try him out and see if he's going to be good. Vitters isn't 20 years old anymore and if he's got to show if he can play at the big league level sometime. Might as well be now when the Cubs are totally out of it.

Why not give him a shot when he's ready?

He hit well last year in AA and has improved at the plate so far in AAA. I know his defense has been a question mark in the past but how much time does he need to prove he can play? I understand not rushing someone but he's been in the minors since 2007 and is showing that he can hit there.

[Hawk4Hall]

At some point you have to just try him out and see if he's going to be good. Vitters isn't 20 years old anymore and if he's got to show if he can play at the big league level sometime. Might as well be now when the Cubs are totally out of it.

 

This is something you say about a 24/25 year old. Simply "not being 20 years old anymore" is meaningless. He's only 22. And he was aggressively pushed along the way every year before 2011. They've got plenty of time to see what he has and no reason whatsoever to even consider calling him up now.

I was talking about him being rushed up to the majors as a guy who's only had a season or two in the minors.

[SouthSideRyan]

At some point you have to just try him out and see if he's going to be good. Vitters isn't 20 years old anymore and if he's got to show if he can play at the big league level sometime. Might as well be now when the Cubs are totally out of it.

 

This is something you say about a 24/25 year old. Simply "not being 20 years old anymore" is meaningless. He's only 22. And he was aggressively pushed along the way every year before 2011. They've got plenty of time to see what he has and no reason whatsoever to even consider calling him up now.

I was talking about him being rushed up to the majors as a guy who's only had a season or two in the minors.

 

Rizzo was drafted in the same draft and is 3 weeks older than Vitters.

[Sammy Sofa]

At some point you have to just try him out and see if he's going to be good. Vitters isn't 20 years old anymore and if he's got to show if he can play at the big league level sometime. Might as well be now when the Cubs are totally out of it.

Why not give him a shot when he's ready?

He hit well last year in AA and has improved at the plate so far in AAA. I know his defense has been a question mark in the past but how much time does he need to prove he can play? I understand not rushing someone but he's been in the minors since 2007 and is showing that he can hit there.

 

He needs plenty of time; you're basically making my point for me when you say "he's improved so far in AAA." His success is relatively recent and it would be smart to allow a flawed hitter/defender time to refine his game, especially considering he's spent much of his developmental time under the previous front office's coaching/development philosophies and approaches.

[bukie]

Bringing Vitters up now would be exactly something the old management would do, and is exactly what they did do with any prospect that showed a month's worth of progress.

 

That is why I like the new regime.

[Guest]

At some point you have to just try him out and see if he's going to be good. Vitters isn't 20 years old anymore and if he's got to show if he can play at the big league level sometime. Might as well be now when the Cubs are totally out of it.

Why not give him a shot when he's ready?

He hit well last year in AA and has improved at the plate so far in AAA. I know his defense has been a question mark in the past but how much time does he need to prove he can play? I understand not rushing someone but he's been in the minors since 2007 and is showing that he can hit there.

This is his first sustained stretch of success in the minors since he was in Peoria. I do not agree that he hit well at AA last year - he had a .770 OPS! At 22, he's younger than the average for a AAA player, AA player or a full season A-ball player! Vitters is probably one of the 10 or 15 youngest players in the PCL. Just because he's been in the minors for 5 years doesn't make him old and doesn't imply he isn't being rushed if he's called up now. You're absolutely rushing him and hurting him to call him up now. There's no need to do it.

[Tracer Bullet]

Ooo shiny objects

[UK1679666180]

I like angry Bukie...

 

Let him finish the year out at Iowa and give him Sept to get his feet wet in the majors.

[dew1679666265]

I like angry Bukie...

 

Let him finish the year out at Iowa and give him Sept to get his feet wet in the majors.

 

This is the optimal plan.

[DiamondMind]

fun to watch Rizzo, Castro, Vitters, Jackson, and Castillo together.

 

this makes me so happy