2013 Draft Discussion

[Cubswin11]

I think Law's new podcast comes out on Tuesday's. I'm sure he'll have some decent stuff on Manaea in it as he was just there to see him over the weekend.

[Guest]

I think Law's new podcast comes out on Tuesday's. I'm sure he'll have some decent stuff on Manaea in it as he was just there to see him over the weekend.

 

He also saw Kohl Stewart last Thursday.

[Guest]

Dan Kirby's 2013 MLB draft: Ten high school players on the rise

[Guest]

Kevin Gallo posted this at Cubs Den about Bryant:

 

His swing has changed slightly since his sophomore year.

 

---

 

I will give it a shot for future projection:

 

Hit: 60

Power: 70

Arm: 65

Speed: 35

Glove :50

Base Running: 55

 

His makeup is off the charts. One of the hardest workers on the field. The first on at the field last one to leave.

 

---

 

Bryant played SS in HS so he is a little more developed and now knows where the he should be…He is a great bat with the attitude that he wants to get better all the time. That is why his glove has improved so much this year.

 

He is an elite that has a really good chance of staying at third base.

 

---

 

I am just going do a cover all for some of these people that say he can't stay at 3B:

 

A lot of the people that cover the draft see players maybe 2 or 3 games over the courses of 2 years. I have seen Bryant at least 7 times over the last year. Only since this season was he my focus, but I always left feeling he was best player on the field…I have seen him progress greatly defensively and he is getting better. It would be easy to say he can't handle 3b if you only see him a couple times, but if you see him there a number of times he changes your mind.

 

There is also a thought process saying he is just too big, people already count that against him before he takes the field. So any mistakes that would be overlooked on other players is amplified for Bryant.

 

---

 

Yes, he is an elite bat, and I know a few scouts agree with me on him being able to stay at 3B. So it’s not just my opinion. My hit tool score may be conservative, if that helps.

 

And by a few I mean all [the scouts] I have talked to.

 

 

Yea...back to my slight inclination to take a bat (hopefully college) to make our positional top prospect depth be just ridiculous, if Bryant can play MLB 3B... wow. (But if it turns out he can only play 1B or OF, that would suck.)

 

If the draft were today, I think I'd be really happy with either of Bryant or Appel. As college guys at their age, both would seem to be pretty safe and relatively fast movers too.

[toonsterwu]

Still don't love Appel. I haven't followed that closely this year, but he just never dominated in the past the way a guy his caliber should, and I keep thinking about how he didn't dominate against Rice to start the year. That said, I'm not complaining if he's our pick, just don't love him.

 

I think Bryant will likely be a good hitter, but for the Cubs, if there's an arm of close enough value, I think you go with the arm (unless the Cubs grade him as an elite hitter), particularly since Bryant isn't a lock to stay at 3rd. As lackluster as this draft is, I'd probably put Manaea/Gray/Appel (probably that order) over Bryant.

 

Shipley seems like the hot name. Don't know much about him, other than, IIRC, he's fairly athletic for a pitcher. If the stuff Aaron Fitt said (mid-upper 90's fb, plus-plus change, average to plus breaking ball) holds through the end of the year, putting him in the mix at 2 wouldn't be out of the question.

 

Keeping wondering if a HS arm emerges to catch their fancy. Doesn't seem like anyone really fits right now, though.

[Guest]

Still don't love Appel. I haven't followed that closely this year, but he just never dominated in the past the way a guy his caliber should, and I keep thinking about how he didn't dominate against Rice to start the year. That said, I'm not complaining if he's our pick, just don't love him.

 

I think Bryant will likely be a good hitter, but for the Cubs, if there's an arm of close enough value, I think you go with the arm (unless the Cubs grade him as an elite hitter), particularly since Bryant isn't a lock to stay at 3rd. As lackluster as this draft is, I'd probably put Manaea/Gray/Appel (probably that order) over Bryant.

 

Shipley seems like the hot name. Don't know much about him, other than, IIRC, he's fairly athletic for a pitcher. If the stuff Aaron Fitt said (mid-upper 90's fb, plus-plus change, average to plus breaking ball) holds through the end of the year, putting him in the mix at 2 wouldn't be out of the question.

 

Keeping wondering if a HS arm emerges to catch their fancy. Doesn't seem like anyone really fits right now, though.

 

Isn't that exactly what he is doing now, though?

[toonsterwu]

Still don't love Appel. I haven't followed that closely this year, but he just never dominated in the past the way a guy his caliber should, and I keep thinking about how he didn't dominate against Rice to start the year. That said, I'm not complaining if he's our pick, just don't love him.

 

I think Bryant will likely be a good hitter, but for the Cubs, if there's an arm of close enough value, I think you go with the arm (unless the Cubs grade him as an elite hitter), particularly since Bryant isn't a lock to stay at 3rd. As lackluster as this draft is, I'd probably put Manaea/Gray/Appel (probably that order) over Bryant.

 

Shipley seems like the hot name. Don't know much about him, other than, IIRC, he's fairly athletic for a pitcher. If the stuff Aaron Fitt said (mid-upper 90's fb, plus-plus change, average to plus breaking ball) holds through the end of the year, putting him in the mix at 2 wouldn't be out of the question.

 

Keeping wondering if a HS arm emerges to catch their fancy. Doesn't seem like anyone really fits right now, though.

 

Isn't that exactly what he is doing now, though?

 

Perhaps. Maybe this holds up through the year, but he didn't dominate against his one really good opponent this year in Rice. Maybe there was a reason, as admittedly, I haven't followed all that closely this year. Texas baseball is really slid a bit (actually all major Longhorn sports have slid a bit). Fresno State, to the best of my knowledge, isn't that dangerous.

 

I admittedly don't know much about UNLV baseball, and maybe they are a quality squad (did sweep Stanford).

 

This doesn't mean I don't think he's any good. Just ... I've been wary of him in the past, and I guess I want to see him dominate his quality opponents. Maybe he's turned the corner and the Rice game was just ... a game.

 

The guy he's always reminded me a bit of is Chris Tillman, a guy with excellent stuff, stuff that makes you think he should just dominate, but he doesn't. I think Appel's probably better than Tillman, but I don't know by how much.

[Guest]

I'm still on board with Manaea. It's going to take more than Keith Law's concern trolling for me to look past him wiping the floor with the Cape Cod league.

[davell]

Isn't Shipley a bit smallish? Toonster, what don't you like about Gray?

[Guest]

Isn't Shipley a bit smallish? Toonster, what don't you like about Gray?

 

Shipley is 6'3" and 190 lbs.

[toonsterwu]

Isn't Shipley a bit smallish? Toonster, what don't you like about Gray?

 

I like Gray. I had him 2nd behind Manaea as my preferences right now, ahead of Appel. It's just, I'll take the gamble on the lefty with plus stuff versus the righty with plus stuff.

[Hrubes20]

Still don't love Appel. I haven't followed that closely this year, but he just never dominated in the past the way a guy his caliber should, and I keep thinking about how he didn't dominate against Rice to start the year. That said, I'm not complaining if he's our pick, just don't love him.

 

I think Bryant will likely be a good hitter, but for the Cubs, if there's an arm of close enough value, I think you go with the arm (unless the Cubs grade him as an elite hitter), particularly since Bryant isn't a lock to stay at 3rd. As lackluster as this draft is, I'd probably put Manaea/Gray/Appel (probably that order) over Bryant.

 

Shipley seems like the hot name. Don't know much about him, other than, IIRC, he's fairly athletic for a pitcher. If the stuff Aaron Fitt said (mid-upper 90's fb, plus-plus change, average to plus breaking ball) holds through the end of the year, putting him in the mix at 2 wouldn't be out of the question.

 

Keeping wondering if a HS arm emerges to catch their fancy. Doesn't seem like anyone really fits right now, though.

 

Isn't that exactly what he is doing now, though?

 

Perhaps. Maybe this holds up through the year, but he didn't dominate against his one really good opponent this year in Rice. Maybe there was a reason, as admittedly, I haven't followed all that closely this year. Texas baseball is really slid a bit (actually all major Longhorn sports have slid a bit). Fresno State, to the best of my knowledge, isn't that dangerous.

 

I admittedly don't know much about UNLV baseball, and maybe they are a quality squad (did sweep Stanford).

 

This doesn't mean I don't think he's any good. Just ... I've been wary of him in the past, and I guess I want to see him dominate his quality opponents. Maybe he's turned the corner and the Rice game was just ... a game.

 

The guy he's always reminded me a bit of is Chris Tillman, a guy with excellent stuff, stuff that makes you think he should just dominate, but he doesn't. I think Appel's probably better than Tillman, but I don't know by how much.

 

I take it that you haven't watched him this year yet. I would recommend doing so. I was of the exact same opinion as you coming into the season. I believe I only caught 1 Appel start from 2012, but I came away terribly underwhelmed. Fastball command was spotty; he seemed to nibble way too much for a guy with his stuff; his pitch selection was questionable; he had very little deception; etc. I really wanted no part of him as the Cubs pick at 2 overall.

 

But then 2013 came around, and Stanford is generous enough to stream their games online for free. I've been able to watch Appel on there, and the difference I have seen in him is like night and day. I haven't seen the fastball command issues, other than an inning lapse here or there. There is a bit more deception. He's using his plus secondary offerings when he should be (and both are swing and miss pitches). He's aggressively attacking the strike zone and truly challenging hitters.

 

If Appel doesn't revert to his 2012 self, he is easily the #1 prospect in the draft for me.

[Guest]

A week after the top two prep hitters faced off in suburban Atlanta, the top two prep lefties (Ian Clarkin and Stephen Gonzalvez) faced off in San Diego:

 

Baseball America[/url]"]Gonsalves pitched six innings and allowed one run on three hits and two walks while striking out six. Clarkin exited in the fifth because of a pitch count and finished with a line of 4 1/3 innings, four runs on eight hits, and seven strikeouts. Gonsalves sat 88-90 mph while Clarkin was 90-93, according to John Maffei of the San Diego Union-Tribune.

 

“They both showed things they hadn’t shown before and overall, I thought they both threw well,” the scout said. “Clarkin’s changeup was better and I didn’t know Gonsalves was as athletic as he was. He’s a pretty athletic kid.”

 

Clarkin’s curveball is a weapon—one of the best breaking balls in the country.

 

“That’s the separator between the two,” the scout said. “One’s got a larger, projectable body, the other one’s got a breaking ball now.”

 

San Diego Union-Tribune story on the matchup.

[Redfoot]

Johnathan Gray thru 5 IP: 0 hits 1 BB 8 K's

[Guest]

Johnathan Gray thru 5 IP: 0 hits 1 BB 8 K's

 

Against a scuffling but talented TCU offense.

 

Should be an interesting pitcher in each game of this series - Gray today and Overton tomorrow for Oklahoma. Then, TCU will start Andrew Mitchell Sunday in his first start since finally moving out of the closer role. Overton as Mitchell are obviously options for 41, not 2.

[davell]

By the way, just wanted to say Hrubes is an excellent poster at PSD. Here's hoping you crossover more often. There's good stuff on both boards. And I'll pimp out Gato over there as well. (priortotheo......)He's a damn good contributor draft wise for sure.

[davell]

Thru 8, 2 hits, 1 run, 1 walk, and 11 K's for Gray.

[Guest]

By the way, just wanted to say Hrubes is an excellent poster at PSD. Here's hoping you crossover more often. There's good stuff on both boards. And I'll pimp out Gato over there as well. (priortotheo......)He's a damn good contributor draft wise for sure.

 

What ever good insight/thoughts he had were outweighed by the fact that he was a huge weirdo.

[davell]

By the way, just wanted to say Hrubes is an excellent poster at PSD. Here's hoping you crossover more often. There's good stuff on both boards. And I'll pimp out Gato over there as well. (priortotheo......)He's a damn good contributor draft wise for sure.

 

What ever good insight/thoughts he had were outweighed by the fact that he was a huge weirdo.

Hehe. He's done much better over there. I just like good discussion. Not my call obviously.

[Guest]

By the way, just wanted to say Hrubes is an excellent poster at PSD. Here's hoping you crossover more often. There's good stuff on both boards. And I'll pimp out Gato over there as well. (priortotheo......)He's a damn good contributor draft wise for sure.

 

Wasn't aware... Welcome over here, hrubes (pretend like you're reading this 19 posts ago).

[davell]

Gray went 9, 3 hits, 2 runs, a walk and 12 K's. Was hitting 97(at least) in the 9th. Threw around 120 pitches.

[Guest]

How long do people think Gray would take to get up compared to Appel?

[davell]

How long do people think Gray would take to get up compared to Appel?

Good question. Law thinks Appel could be ready to pitch in the majors in September. Whats normal for a high college pick? Late 2015, maybe?

[Guest]

How long do people think Gray would take to get up compared to Appel?

 

I think most teams would have Appel up for good sometime in May of next season (past the cutoff to get another season). I'd assume Gray would start at A+ next season and probably be ready sometime in the middle to end of 2015 - call it the Gerrit Cole schedule. That's assuming good health and normal progression for both.

 

I think Manaea would take till 2016.

[Guest]

How long do people think Gray would take to get up compared to Appel?

 

I think most teams would have Appel up for good sometime in May of next season (past the cutoff to get another season). I'd assume Gray would start at A+ next season and probably be ready sometime in the middle to end of 2015 - call it the Gerrit Cole schedule. That's assuming good health and normal progression for both.

 

I think Manaea would take till 2016.

 

Might be wrong of me but that makes me have a huge preference for Appel.