Dempster Traded to Texas for 3B Villanueva & RHP Hendricks

[XZero771679666304]

Right, but not because of poor performance or a lessened ceiling on Vizcaino's part.

 

Are you implying TJS has no bearing on a prospects value?

 

Who cares about his value? It was a great trade, and a great gamble.

 

 

TJS isn't a horrible red flag like a shoulder problem. Pitchers almost always recover fully, and often stronger than before. Vizcaino wasn't just a top 100, but a top 40 (and top 15 according to some), and this is while it was known he had elbow damage. He was a top tier arm and if he never regains his status, it almost certainly won't be because of his TJS (thought o be fair, he does have general durabilit issues).

 

We did really well getting him, and it was worth more than what was paid. Acquiring him for Maholm takes a lot of the sting out the Delgado fiasco for me.

[Guest]

I'm just going to say it now and flame away but I like Vitters more as a prospect than Villanueva. Vitters is only a little over 1 year 10 months older. Vitters has a higher OPS and it looks like they walk at around the same rate.

Park/league factors have to be taken into account when making the comparison.

[Fro]

I'm just going to say it now and flame away but I like Vitters more as a prospect than Villanueva. Vitters is only a little over 1 year 10 months older. Vitters has a higher OPS and it looks like they walk at around the same rate.

 

Good news is we'll get to see if Vitters works out before Villanueva is ready for the ML-level (since he's just in A ball).

[Elrhino]

If we pretend the Delgado deal never was on the table how do we feel about the moves Theo actually made?

 

For Dempster, I always used Seattle trading Jarrod Washburn to Detroit in 2009 as the barometer. Washburn was 35-36 years old in the final year of his contract and having a sterling (lucky) first half of the season. Rentals had a little more value in the previous CBA, but Dempster has been a better pitcher than Washburn the previous 3 years so it kinda balanced out. Seattle got back a low ceiling major league ready starter (Luke French) and a raw high ceiling A ball live arm (Mauricio Robles).

 

I was thinking Theo might prefer just to go with two really high ceiling low level guys instead. I think he just got one high ceiling A guy (although not exceptionally high ceiling) and one guy who's just kinda filler. He didn't get back any immediate or high ceiling pitching help for Dempster.

 

I think Dempster screwed us.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Elrhino

[Guest]

From the comments on the side of the hoyer press conference

 

Okay with Dempster and Soto, but disappointed in Maholm and Johnson trade

by Steve S 3:53 PM

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Cubswin11]

I'm just going to say it now and flame away but I like Vitters more as a prospect than Villanueva. Vitters is only a little over 1 year 10 months older. Vitters has a higher OPS and it looks like they walk at around the same rate.

Park/league factors have to be taken into account when making the comparison.

How much better of a hitter league is the PCL than whatever league Villanueva currently is in? I know PCL is considered quite the hitters league.

[Guest]

I'm just going to say it now and flame away but I like Vitters more as a prospect than Villanueva. Vitters is only a little over 1 year 10 months older. Vitters has a higher OPS and it looks like they walk at around the same rate.

 

 

Whether Vitters can actually handle 3B is still a question mark while Villanueva appears to be a plus fielder.

[Guest]

yeah, vitters is kind of hard for me to get overly excited for despite his drastic improvements at the plate. it sounds like his defense is not progressing, and i don't trust that he'll hit enough to make up for it.

 

it would be fun to have an insanely good defensive infield, too

[Guest]

Paul Sullivan ‏@PWSullivan

Hoyer: Hendricks a "strike thrower, 93 mph, and Villanueva has good bat and "some power."

[Guest]

Paul Sullivan ‏@PWSullivan

Hoyer: Hendricks a "strike thrower, 93 mph, and Villanueva has good bat and "some power."

 

93?

[El Duderino]

@BenBadler

 

Christian Villanueva's a good prospect going to the Cubs, but that's an easy decision for the Rangers given the 3B in their org.

[Guest]

Paul Sullivan ‏@PWSullivan

Hoyer: Hendricks a "strike thrower, 93 mph, and Villanueva has good bat and "some power."

 

93?

 

That's why I posted it.

[hawkeyecub]

Mayo also said on MLBN that he can work in the low 90's.

[UMFan83]

Right, but not because of poor performance or a lessened ceiling on Vizcaino's part.

 

Are you implying TJS has no bearing on a prospects value?

 

Nope, just that assuming he gets healthy (which is a fairly safe bet given recent TJS success rates), he will likely still be ahead of Delgado. If he's not, its probably because of durability and/or being a little older for the league he's in due to the injury. He will still likely have the stuff and the makeup to make him a better prospect than Delgado.

[AI]

Villanueva is a Top 100 guy but in a position of depth for the Rangers (3B). With Olt nearly ready and Joey Gallo murdering the ball in Arizona (not to mention Beltre signed for another 4 years), the Rangers have 3B covered. I think worth it for a team that really needs SP help if another World Series run is to happen. Everybody wins.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's pretty plausible that he's touched 93 at some point in his career but works 87-89.

[Guest]

i know you don't want to make unneccessary trades based on system projection, but i wonder if they'll move vitters. there have been rumors for the last few months that the cubs were interested in 3b.

[Guest]

Right, but not because of poor performance or a lessened ceiling on Vizcaino's part.

 

Are you implying TJS has no bearing on a prospects value?

 

Who cares about his value? It was a great trade, and a great gamble.

 

 

TJS isn't a horrible red flag like a shoulder problem. Pitchers almost always recover fully, and often stronger than before. Vizcaino wasn't just a top 100, but a top 40 (and top 15 according to some), and this is while it was known he had elbow damage. He was a top tier arm and if he never regains his status, it almost certainly won't be because of his TJS (thought o be fair, he does have general durabilit issues).

 

We did really well getting him, and it was worth more than what was paid. Acquiring him for Maholm takes a lot of the sting out the Delgado fiasco for me.

 

Same

[dew1679666265]

Mayo also said on MLBN that he can work in the low 90's.

 

If he's consistently 91-93 rather than 87-89, I may get pretty intrigued by Hendricks with his terrific control.

[Elrhino]

@BenBadler

 

Christian Villanueva's a good prospect going to the Cubs, but that's an easy decision for the Rangers given the 3B in their org.

 

Seriously, the Rangers made off quite well for Dempster.

[Guest]

I guess Dempster was hanging out with Theo/Jed while they worked out the deal and it wasn't until the last minute that he backed off on the LA thing.

[Guest]

It's pretty plausible that he's touched 93 at some point in his career but works 87-89.

 

He also throws a 2 seamer, 4 seamer, and cutter, so it could be a matter of pitch mix.

[El Duderino]

@BenBadler

 

Fringy guy RT @Duderino_Abides Was Hendricks a throw-in, or a legit SP prospect?

[Warpticon]

I'm just going to say it now and flame away but I like Vitters more as a prospect than Villanueva. Vitters is only a little over 1 year 10 months older. Vitters has a higher OPS and it looks like they walk at around the same rate.

Park/league factors have to be taken into account when making the comparison.

 

Yes, plus how do you just dismiss a 2 year age difference? Not to mention Villanuueva's fielding advantage.

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

Mayo also said on MLBN that he can work in the low 90's.

 

If he's consistently 91-93 rather than 87-89, I may get pretty intrigued by Hendricks with his terrific control.

 

If he works 87-89 and can reach back for 91-93 through an entire start you have to like that.