Wrigley Renovation Thread

[jersey cubs fan]

There are plenty of teams out there that laugh at 2 mill in attendance. Plenty that have more seating capacity and plenty that have relatively to high ticket prices themselves.

More seating capacity is not a good thing in major league baseball stadiums. The scarcity of the product is the reason why season tickets continue to sell in lean years.

[davell]

To renovate the park, you're not going to even BOTHER going thru with it, unless you're adding money streams to make it worthwhile. I may not like Ricketts myself, but I'm not expecting anyone to dump a couple hundred mill out of his own pocket just to keep something going.

 

Okay then that will work out great when it is determined your building is unsafe for occupancy and you can no longer conduct business there.

 

Of course you're going to do the other stuff. My point is I totally get why an owner refuses to start anything until he makes a decision on the revenue streams.

 

In no way am I applauding him here-the decision to go this direction should have happened a long time ago, in my mind.

 

But in no way am I going to sink a couple hundred mill into a place when my future revenue generators are in limbo.

The future revenue streams aren't in that much limbo. If the contract ends in 8 years or whatever the Cubs will be able to do whatever they want with OF signage really. It's the near term that it's limbo, but taking the long view the future doesn't appear that uncertain.

 

But if they need the immediate revenue to fund the 300m reno then they can't really just wait out the contract for 8 more years.

 

 

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The issue is that things can change over an 8-10 year period. What if they were forced to sell during that time? I know it's not likely, but this is real money. And in our case, the owners aren't well enough off that a very slight possibility of a 200 mill loss wouldn't keep them from moving forward until they had a full on plan.

 

However, until they're breaking ground, all this is, is a "look at us, we're not getting pushed around anymore". Until the next time, when court rulings have put a halt on things and we get a "hey, it's not our fault, we're trying" which we've heard many times already. Just next time, it'll have a joint villain, in the court system to blame.

[jersey cubs fan]

but you could do a lot worse than owning a four-flat across the street from Wrigley Field.

 

That sounds nightmarish. I can't imagine that too many people who can actually afford to live in a building like that in that location would be down with the frat party atmosphere and the skyrocketing crime rate.

 

Really? People loved living there in the late 90's early 00's before it went full on corporate bar atmosphere. The fact that the people who make the "frat party atmosphere" out there in the first place even exist should disprove any notion that that type of person does not exist. There are plenty of people who don't mind the hubbub outside their house, and can afford to live there.

[Sammy Sofa]

but you could do a lot worse than owning a four-flat across the street from Wrigley Field.

 

That sounds nightmarish. I can't imagine that too many people who can actually afford to live in a building like that in that location would be down with the frat party atmosphere and the skyrocketing crime rate.

 

Really? People loved living there in the late 90's early 00's before it went full on corporate bar atmosphere. The fact that the people who make the "frat party atmosphere" out there in the first place even exist should disprove any notion that that type of person does not exist. There are plenty of people who don't mind the hubbub outside their house, and can afford to live there.

 

The area is infinitely worse even than it was just a decade ago. Both Wrigleyville and Boystown are imploding under this active "come here and party and who gives a [expletive] what happens, it's not your neighborhood" attitude the city and local business/government have been fostering and are desperate to maintain. Couple that with the crime spiraling out of control and the slashes police presence/spending in the area.

 

I'll put it this way: if someone could afford to live in one of those buildings and DIDN'T inexplicably adore the almost 24/7 mess the place is now then they're an idiot and I am stunned they ever made that much money to begin with.

[jersey cubs fan]

The area is infinitely worse even than it was just a decade ago. Both Wrigleyville and Boystown are imploding under this active "come here and party and who gives a [expletive] what happens, it's not your neighborhood" attitude the city and local business/government have been fostering and are desperate to maintain. Couple that with the crime spiraling out of control and the slashes police presence/spending in the area.

 

I'll put it this way: if someone could afford to live in one of those buildings and DIDN'T inexplicably adore the almost 24/7 mess the place is now then they're an idiot and I am stunned they ever made that much money to begin with.

 

I think you are being a bit unrealistic in terms of what type of people can make a good amount of money. There are a lot of 26 year old single people willing to throw in a lot of money on rent to be right in the middle of where they like to drink the most.

[Sammy Sofa]

The area is infinitely worse even than it was just a decade ago. Both Wrigleyville and Boystown are imploding under this active "come here and party and who gives a [expletive] what happens, it's not your neighborhood" attitude the city and local business/government have been fostering and are desperate to maintain. Couple that with the crime spiraling out of control and the slashes police presence/spending in the area.

 

I'll put it this way: if someone could afford to live in one of those buildings and DIDN'T inexplicably adore the almost 24/7 mess the place is now then they're an idiot and I am stunned they ever made that much money to begin with.

 

I think you are being a bit unrealistic in terms of what type of people can make a good amount of money. There are a lot of 26 year old single people willing to throw in a lot of money on rent to be right in the middle of where they like to drink the most.

 

I wasn't talking about renters; I was talking about people buying to live there. Of course they'd find a herd of choades willing to rent in pack-squalor.

[jersey cubs fan]

The area is infinitely worse even than it was just a decade ago. Both Wrigleyville and Boystown are imploding under this active "come here and party and who gives a [expletive] what happens, it's not your neighborhood" attitude the city and local business/government have been fostering and are desperate to maintain. Couple that with the crime spiraling out of control and the slashes police presence/spending in the area.

 

I'll put it this way: if someone could afford to live in one of those buildings and DIDN'T inexplicably adore the almost 24/7 mess the place is now then they're an idiot and I am stunned they ever made that much money to begin with.

 

I think you are being a bit unrealistic in terms of what type of people can make a good amount of money. There are a lot of 26 year old single people willing to throw in a lot of money on rent to be right in the middle of where they like to drink the most.

 

I wasn't talking about renters; I was talking about people buying to live there. Of course they'd find a herd of choades willing to rent in pack-squalor.

 

Okay, but that's what the value of the place is. You aren't going to sell to families looking to stay there 20 years, but there will be an endless horde of renters available and that is where the value in the property lies.

[davell]

Goony, it's a good point about seating capacity, but we're really low there. I think we're in the 20's. But Boston is too. So yes, we CAN charge more per person and that helps. But we're never going to set attendance records or even be close in generated income there.

 

By the way, not positive here, but I'm pretty sure that any ticket price survey does NOT include luxury seating. Which takes us full circle back to the rooftops taking advantage of a situation we can't basically.

[Sammy Sofa]

The area is infinitely worse even than it was just a decade ago. Both Wrigleyville and Boystown are imploding under this active "come here and party and who gives a [expletive] what happens, it's not your neighborhood" attitude the city and local business/government have been fostering and are desperate to maintain. Couple that with the crime spiraling out of control and the slashes police presence/spending in the area.

 

I'll put it this way: if someone could afford to live in one of those buildings and DIDN'T inexplicably adore the almost 24/7 mess the place is now then they're an idiot and I am stunned they ever made that much money to begin with.

 

I think you are being a bit unrealistic in terms of what type of people can make a good amount of money. There are a lot of 26 year old single people willing to throw in a lot of money on rent to be right in the middle of where they like to drink the most.

 

I wasn't talking about renters; I was talking about people buying to live there. Of course they'd find a herd of choades willing to rent in pack-squalor.

 

Okay, but that's what the value of the place is. You aren't going to sell to families looking to stay there 20 years, but there will be an endless horde of renters available and that is where the value in the property lies.

 

Yes, nobody was questioning the value of the property.

 

But ugh, even just owning it as a landlord sounds awful; imagine the upkeep keeping the places livable after the types of animals that would willfully live there.

[Guest]

in lincoln park and lakeview, you could pretty much keep it in near slum like conditions and charge upwards of 1100 a month for a 1 bed.

 

if it's actually nice, forget about it.

[Guest]

Bruce Levine with some hot takes

 

Bruce Levine ‏@MLBBruceLevine 6m

Cub fans -Here is what you need to know ! This Cub- rooftop owners contract does not prevent any ballpark renovation or restoration.

 

Bruce Levine ‏@MLBBruceLevine 4m

Cub - rooftop dispute. The ambiguity of the agreement states that the usual view that is in place now should not be altered.

 

Bruce Levine ‏@MLBBruceLevine 2m

The Cubs could have made any changes to the clubhouse or batting cage addition without any legal interference by rooftop owners .

 

 

YOU DON'T SAY

[Guest]

Bruce Levine ‏@MLBBruceLevine 7s

Rooftop owners paid the Cubs $3.1 million in 2013 . That is more than any amount they made from top advertising partners. (Including Bud)

 

They made more from all the rooftop owners than they did from one advertising partner before installing any new signs?

 

YOU DON'T SAY

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Bruce Levine with some hot takes

 

...

 

YOU DON'T SAY

 

Seeing as how the Cubs' entire PR campaign is based around convincing people the rooftops are preventing them from renovating Wrigley Field, it's a reasonable thing to report.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yes, nobody was questioning the value of the property.

 

But ugh, even just owning it as a landlord sounds awful; imagine the upkeep keeping the places livable after the types of animals that would willfully live there.

 

Well, okay. You claimed that nobody that could afford to live there would be willing to live there, but, maybe you didn't.

[SouthSideRyan]

There are plenty of teams out there that laugh at 2 mill in attendance. Plenty that have more seating capacity and plenty that have relatively to high ticket prices themselves.

 

There are very few teams that laugh at our current revenue.

[Guest]

Going to try to get everything Bernstein just said down. I think he plans to talk more about it on the show.

 

Rooftops - It's still basically one guy. One guy too dumb to understand the negotiations and one guy too dumb to understand the language that their lawyers have laid out and pointed out that - "THIS is why you're going to lose in court." It's just a matter of how much you want to spend in court to lose.

 

Ricketts - Too nice, too patient. No taste for Chicago dirty backroom politics and has assumed people (unlike this alleged RTO) are reasonable in negotiations. They've gotten nowhere and the rooftops are remaining united despite it being one dissenter.

 

Cubs lawyers have been told (er, have told the Cubs? not sure I heard that right) that there is minimal risk of losing in court. Says it won't happen.

 

Rahm is fully with the Cubs. Rahm and the landmark committee are going to rubber stamp the new proposal. Rahm has told Tunney to be "carefully measured" in any public comments - he's going to want to straddle the issue. Part of the expansion of the plans was to throw Tunney a bone and look like they gave in a little. They will give a little on the larger scale (maybe 5 signs instead of 7).

 

Cubs are already bidding work/materials.

Edited May 22, 2014 by David

[UMFan83]

Bruce Levine with some hot takes

 

...

 

YOU DON'T SAY

 

Seeing as how the Cubs' entire PR campaign is based around convincing people the rooftops are preventing them from renovating Wrigley Field, it's a reasonable thing to report.

 

PTR can't start this [expletive] without billboard/jumbotron revenues

[Guest]

Bruce Levine with some hot takes

 

...

 

YOU DON'T SAY

 

Seeing as how the Cubs' entire PR campaign is based around convincing people the rooftops are preventing them from renovating Wrigley Field, it's a reasonable thing to report.

 

PTR can't start this [expletive] without billboard/jumbotron revenues

 

Maybe but probably not.

 

Nevertheless, I want them to leverage this into as many new revenue streams as they can, even if their reasoning is BS.

[SouthSideRyan]

Well that all sounds promising.

[WrigleyField 22]

So lawyers on both sides think the RTOs lose in court, but is there enough there to cause an injunction to stop renovations while it's settled? If there isn't I'm not sure why it took so long for this revised F U plan to cone forth.

 

 

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Edited May 22, 2014 by WrigleyField 22

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, okay. You claimed that nobody that could afford to live there would be willing to live there, but, maybe you didn't.

 

Yes, I said I doubted that anyone who could afford to own one of those buildings would be willing to live there now as was the case with some of them in the past.

[Guest]

So lawyers on both sides think the RTOs lose in court, but is there enough there to cause an injunction to stop renovations whole it's settled? If there isn't I'm not sure why it took so long for this revised F U plan to cone forth.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Because Ricketts wanted to avoid going to court and come to a reasonable agreement with an assurance from them that there would be no litigation.

[SouthSideRyan]

So lawyers on both sides think the RTOs lose in court, but is there enough there to cause an injunction to stop renovations whole it's settled? If there isn't I'm not sure why it took so long for this revised F U plan to cone forth.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Because Ricketts wanted to avoid going to court and come to a reasonable agreement with an assurance from them that there would be no litigation.

 

Then he's a short-sighted idiot.

[Guest]

So lawyers on both sides think the RTOs lose in court, but is there enough there to cause an injunction to stop renovations whole it's settled? If there isn't I'm not sure why it took so long for this revised F U plan to cone forth.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Because Ricketts wanted to avoid going to court and come to a reasonable agreement with an assurance from them that there would be no litigation.

 

Then he's a short-sighted idiot.

 

Who really knows the entirety of the story, but yeah. It's dumb IMO.

 

If they knew this, I would have wanted to flatten those clowns immediately.

[WrigleyField 22]

Yea I mean, how long does this court case last? Longer than it took to change course on the plans why they patiently waited? And you're still going to court and possibly facing an injunction.

 

Sounds like it should have been clear very early on that the non litigation route was never realistic and pursuing it was blind hope and not a smart business move.

 

 

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