Tigers sign Prince - 9/214 - Heyman

[pccubfan]

losing Ramirez, Marshall, Pena, and in talks to trade Garza and possibly Marmol and replacing them with DeJesus, Stewart and minor league pieces so far certainly doesnt give much evidence that this is anything but a complete rebuild.

 

The offseason isn't over but its becoming more clear to me that this is the route they are going. And whatever im cool with it.

 

Aside from Garza, who I doubt they move for a lesser package than the Latos return, everyone youn mentioned was an expiring contract or an older player. If you think about it, the majority of this team is expendable and the phrase full rebuild doesnt necessarily mean turning into the Astros. Hell, I'd we traded Soriano, Byrd, DeWitt, Baker, Marmol, and Z and signed Fielder and Cespedes that would pretty much be a total rebuild but that doesnt make it a bad thing.

 

If we trade those players, but don't sign Fielder and Cespedes, then does it qualify as a failure? And what in God's name do you think we're going to get of value for Byrd/DeWitt/Baker?

 

If 2013 rolls around and we're not at least beginning to look like a .500 team then maybe. As for Byrd/DeWitt/Baker I say get what we can. Depending on who has the need for a right handed outfielder with an OK bat, Byrd could bring us back something decent. Nothing resbling top prospects but maybe slightly less than DeRosa but more than Fuludome. As for DeWitt and Baker theyd be either throw ins or maybe they could each fetch an intriguing low level guy. Never thought that Jamey Carroll or Clint Barmes would have signed for as much as they did so white utility guys seem to be in season.

 

The problem isn't trading those guys, it is the return you are going to get. None of them are going to get you much in the way of talent. If you are lucky, you might get a high ceiling guy in low A ball. No one that is going to be a guaranty to play in the majors or will be there any time soon.

[abuck1220]

Then the Cubs are a good five years minimum from competing.

 

wow. the cubs are really hoping there are a lot of ticket buyers with this attitude. unreal.

[CincyCubsFan]

Not purusing any big free agents.

Signing middling free agents to short term deals.

Trading Marshall

Shopping Garza.

 

Trading Marshall to a key divisional rival pretty much seals it.

 

The problem with a rebuild is that we have about 3 players that we could actually trade for anything of substantial value. Two of them are named Castro and Garza.

 

So as it stands right now:

We have little of value to trade.

We seem to be unwilling to sign any free agents because we aren't close to competing and don't want to overpay.

 

Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[SouthSideRyan]

Then the Cubs are a good five years minimum from competing.

 

wow. the cubs are really hoping there are a lot of ticket buyers with this attitude. unreal.

 

On the other hand, I should definitely shoot up the season ticket list.

[abuck1220]

Then the Cubs are a good five years minimum from competing.

 

wow. the cubs are really hoping there are a lot of ticket buyers with this attitude. unreal.

 

On the other hand, I should definitely shoot up the season ticket list.

 

you'll be right at the top when it comes time to sign castro to an 10 year/$235 mil contract.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The problem with a rebuild is that we have about 3 players that we could actually trade for anything of substantial value. Two of them are named Castro and Garza.

 

Garza has obvious value.

 

Marmol, Byrd, Soto all have non-zero value imo.

 

And Dempster and Zambrano could probably rebuild their value with decent starts to the season.

[pccubfan]

Then the Cubs are a good five years minimum from competing.

 

wow. the cubs are really hoping there are a lot of ticket buyers with this attitude. unreal.

 

Do you disagree?

 

I just don't see the Cubs having much chance of competing before 2016 unless they buy some impact players in free agency prior to that time.

[abuck1220]

Then the Cubs are a good five years minimum from competing.

 

wow. the cubs are really hoping there are a lot of ticket buyers with this attitude. unreal.

 

Do you disagree?

 

I just don't see the Cubs having much chance of competing before 2016 unless they buy some impact players in free agency prior to that time.

 

yes, i agree. if the cubs don't sign a single good free agent in the next five offseasons, they may not be good.

 

wow.

Edited December 21, 2011 by abuck1220

[Rob]

Then the Cubs are a good five years minimum from competing.

 

wow. the cubs are really hoping there are a lot of ticket buyers with this attitude. unreal.

 

Do you disagree?

 

I just don't see the Cubs having much chance of competing before 2016 unless they buy some impact players in free agency prior to that time.

 

That's dumb.

 

We can draft and develop impact players before that point, hopefully... to say nothing of being able to at least trade for them. Also, the entirety of the NL central looks like it's about to fall apart completely. You really don't think we can sneak in there?

[jersey cubs fan]

 

That's dumb.

 

We can draft and develop impact players before that point, hopefully... to say nothing of being able to at least trade for them. Also, the entirety of the NL central looks like it's about to fall apart completely. You really don't think we can sneak in there?

 

If you draft and develop they probably won't be doing much for another 5 years.

[pccubfan]

Then the Cubs are a good five years minimum from competing.

 

wow. the cubs are really hoping there are a lot of ticket buyers with this attitude. unreal.

 

Do you disagree?

 

I just don't see the Cubs having much chance of competing before 2016 unless they buy some impact players in free agency prior to that time.

 

yes, i agree. if the cubs don't sign a single good free agent in the next five offseasons, they may not be good.

 

wow.

 

My original post that you quoted was the result of answers I received from others about whether the Cubs would be players in the free agent market next offseason. The responses were negative to being involved in free agent signings next offseason. If the Cubs aren't involved next year, I don't know what would make anyone think they would be after that. Again, it's not like there is going to be a big infusion of talent from the system in 2013 that would make 2014 look all that much better.

[Rob]

 

That's dumb.

 

We can draft and develop impact players before that point, hopefully... to say nothing of being able to at least trade for them. Also, the entirety of the NL central looks like it's about to fall apart completely. You really don't think we can sneak in there?

 

If you draft and develop they probably won't be doing much for another 5 years.

 

I was kinda including the guys already in our system (including that high ceiling last draft), but that's irrelevant. The point was just that there were other ways to acquire impact talent than buy it.

 

I was being kinda nitpicky.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

That's dumb.

 

We can draft and develop impact players before that point, hopefully... to say nothing of being able to at least trade for them. Also, the entirety of the NL central looks like it's about to fall apart completely. You really don't think we can sneak in there?

 

If you draft and develop they probably won't be doing much for another 5 years.

 

I was kinda including the guys already in our system (including that high ceiling last draft), but that's irrelevant. The point was just that there were other ways to acquire impact talent than buy it.

 

I was being kinda nitpicky.

 

There are other ways, but avoiding free agency is stupid.

[CincyCubsFan]

 

That's dumb.

 

We can draft and develop impact players before that point, hopefully... to say nothing of being able to at least trade for them. Also, the entirety of the NL central looks like it's about to fall apart completely. You really don't think we can sneak in there?

 

If you draft and develop they probably won't be doing much for another 5 years.

 

I was kinda including the guys already in our system (including that high ceiling last draft), but that's irrelevant. The point was just that there were other ways to acquire impact talent than buy it.

 

I was being kinda nitpicky.

 

There are other ways, but avoiding free agency is stupid.

 

Especially when next year's position player FA class is so weak, and the competition for the current crop is so thin.

[Game time is 120]

We still stinks. And Prince Fielder is not fat, he's oval shaped. But I give Theo credit here as he has stuck to his guns about rebuilding and not just paying for top tier free agents just because.

 

All that said, this could be a very, very long season or two. Kinda stinks we have to go through a long winter knowing our team is going to be horrid in 2012.

[Rob]

I was kinda including the guys already in our system (including that high ceiling last draft), but that's irrelevant. The point was just that there were other ways to acquire impact talent than buy it.

 

I was being kinda nitpicky.

 

There are other ways, but avoiding free agency is stupid.

 

I absolutely agree?

 

As I said, I was just nitpicking. I wasn't throwing out proclamations of how we should be doing things going forward.

[17 Seconds]

We still stinks. And Prince Fielder is not fat, he's oval shaped. But I give Theo credit here as he has stuck to his guns about rebuilding and not just paying for top tier free agents just because.

 

All that said, this could be a very, very long season or two. Kinda stinks we have to go through a long winter knowing our team is going to be horrid in 2012.

 

might as well just change your name back to HM at this point

[CyHawk_Cub]

We still stinks. And Prince Fielder is not fat, he's oval shaped. But I give Theo credit here as he has stuck to his guns about rebuilding and not just paying for top tier free agents just because.

 

All that said, this could be a very, very long season or two. Kinda stinks we have to go through a long winter knowing our team is going to be horrid in 2012.

 

Yep....most definitely this guy is also Hollandsworth's Mug...lmfao...at least try to use different terminology dude

[Little Slide Rooter]

The problem with a rebuild is that we have about 3 players that we could actually trade for anything of substantial value. Two of them are named Castro and Garza.

 

Garza has obvious value.

 

Marmol, Byrd, Soto all have non-zero value imo.

 

And Dempster and Zambrano could probably rebuild their value with decent starts to the season.

 

You really think that Soto and Marmol have 0 value? Come on now. I guarantee we can get at least 1 top 100 prospect and 1 more of that teams top 10 for Soto and probably similar for Marmol if we were willing to eat enough salary.

[CincyCubsFan]

The problem with a rebuild is that we have about 3 players that we could actually trade for anything of substantial value. Two of them are named Castro and Garza.

 

Garza has obvious value.

 

Marmol, Byrd, Soto all have non-zero value imo.

 

And Dempster and Zambrano could probably rebuild their value with decent starts to the season.

 

You really think that Soto and Marmol have 0 value? Come on now. I guarantee we can get at least 1 top 100 prospect and 1 more of that teams top 10 for Soto and probably similar for Marmol if we were willing to eat enough salary.

 

He said "non-zero" value. As in, positive value.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I don't see why the term rebuild is such a boogie man of a word. If the rebuild starts off with Cespedes and Solar and we can tack on a few more good young players, I'm ok with it. On the other hand, if they keep doing what they're doing now and relying on what we have in the farm right now I question whether or not were a .500 team by the time Epsteins contract comes to an end. Just remember, rebuild doesn't necessarily mean turning into the Houston Astros, and I'm confident that Epstein and Hoyer didn't just come here for the money and let their reputations suffer.

[abuck1220]

Then the Cubs are a good five years minimum from competing.

 

wow. the cubs are really hoping there are a lot of ticket buyers with this attitude. unreal.

 

Do you disagree?

 

I just don't see the Cubs having much chance of competing before 2016 unless they buy some impact players in free agency prior to that time.

 

yes, i agree. if the cubs don't sign a single good free agent in the next five offseasons, they may not be good.

 

wow.

 

My original post that you quoted was the result of answers I received from others about whether the Cubs would be players in the free agent market next offseason. The responses were negative to being involved in free agent signings next offseason. If the Cubs aren't involved next year, I don't know what would make anyone think they would be after that. Again, it's not like there is going to be a big infusion of talent from the system in 2013 that would make 2014 look all that much better.

 

if the cubs aren't going to sign a free agent for the next five years, i'm going to probably find a new team to root for.

[Little Slide Rooter]

 

if the cubs aren't going to sign a free agent for the next five years, i'm going to probably find a new team to root for.

 

We did just sign Reed Johnson.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

New user name, same old [expletive].

[questionmarkgrace]

I'm still holding out hope that Epstein will somehow field a decent team this year. but its funny, if Hendry had made the moves Epstein has made so far everyone would be calling for his head. Thus far his moves have been head scratching material. Signing an aging right fielder as opposed to going with the guy who looks major league ready (Brett Jackson) so we can get more left handed (and yes he said that in the tribune), resigning Reed Johnson for 1.5 million when he is very unlikely to repeat the numbers he put up last year, is old, and easily replaceble with a minimum salary guy. Trading Marshall to a division rival only to get some filler prospects and sean marshall lite back? Claiming Jeff Bianchi from the royals and putting him on the 40 man roster is but another wtf move. The ian stewart move was more what I was expecting from Epstein/Hoyer.

 

I dont understand the idea of total rebuild. A few savy moves that are cost effective could easily make this team compete for the central. Kendry morales, plus a starter, and cespedes gives us a shot. beyond that the playoffs are a crap shoot and many wild card teams go very far. If they do choose to go the total rebuild route and avoid free agency there will be fireworks at the cubs convention. I just dont think they are that foolish to underestimate the fan base, ticket sales, etc. I hope I'm right