Constructing the 2012 Cubs

[toonsterwu]

Markakis is probably unavailable, but if he was, Baltimore would likely want a fair amount. He's still generally viewed as a core guy in Baltimore, is signed through 2014 with an option in 2015, and the concerns on his power were somewhat quieted after his solid 2nd half. He might never be as good as once-hoped, particularly after that 2008 6+ WAR season, but he's only going to be in his age 28 season next year.

 

I have a hard time seeing Zduriencik move Smoak unless it's for a gigantic return.

 

The Cubs could deal with a fair amount. That's how trades for good players should work. While he's probably still part of the Baltimore core, their future is still years away and he could bring some nice pieces. I see him as a Pence/Garza type who can play with the big boys but isn't quite top tier right now, and he's got a couple of cost controlled years left. He'd cost a pretty penny, but if they bring in the elite bat before him he'll be worth it. Hell, they should do it anyway.

 

Smoak probably isn't going anywhere, but oh man what a coup that would be...

 

Problem is, we really don't have a fair amount to send right now. Assuming you rule out Brett Jackson, since most of us are penciling him into the lineup, the upper levels simply don't have that many pieces that would entice in a trade. Knowing the sentiment there and the speculation, it'd take a gigantic return, and I'm not absolutely sold that Trey McNutt/Matt Szczur/and one would be enough. They want some upper level arms in case their current crop largely falters, but we are largely lacking in that regards.

 

That said, just speculation based on the rumors in the Baltimore area. Since they don't have a GM as of now, a lot could change.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

One name that is thought to be available, but hasn't been discussed here before is Carlos Quentin. Third base is what it is - it's a bad market. That said, we probably need another power bat in the lineup, and the White Sox will reportedly listen on Quentin. He's not great in RF, but you could do worse. He'd be in his age 29/30 season in 2012, in his prime.

 

Problem is, I'm just not sure we match-up all that well, assuming Kenny wants, as he said, young MLB-ready talent. That said, in getting front office pieces from Boston and San Diego, we could conceivably work a three-way, so it's not out of the question in regards to going after Quentin.

 

Carlos Quentin is one of the worst defensive players in the MLB IIRC. Plus there's some injury worry.

[SouthSideRyan]

People talking about making Cashner a future closer makes me irrationally angry

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

People talking about making Cashner a future closer makes me irrationally angry

 

Same here, because they can always go to "well we don't know where he's at after the injury" or something in that area pertaining to arm strength and the injury.

 

I'd rather see him go all Matt Latos on their asses.

[Guest]

hello everyone. wanted to chime in on this. ive been lurking here for years..was a posting member back when tim first started out...sanclementefan hahaha.. heres some thoughts

 

1. i believe pujols re-ups with the cards. i hate it but i just dont see him leaving and i dont think the cards will let him go. He is Iconic in st louis.

 

2, i also believe fielder, although he fits the "age criteria" that theo mentioned, wont be a part of the equation either. just too big a risk with his weight/conditioning. If i were theo i wouldnt tie myself to that move/player to start his era in chicago..seems like a huge commitment.

 

3. CJ Wilson will be a Ranger. He likes Texas, hes a outdoor kindof guy(see his comments about gun laws) combined with the fact that they lost out on retaining Cliff Lee last offseason and they will pony up the $$ for Wilson.

 

If i'm theo i'm thinking i won a world series with doug mienckiwiczalphabet at 1b so a prototypical "power run producer' at first really isnt a priority. One good thing about being a really bad team is there are alot of places that can be improved. We've some really bad contracts but one way to get rid of one or two of them is package them with some assets. We can all agree that next offseasons free agent class is much deeper so heres where i would start:

 

A. Re-sign Ramirez 3/39m---Re-sign Wood 1/2m.--Re-sign Reed johnson 1/1.5m

B. TRADE 1 =talk to the indians about picking up the club options they hold on sizemore(8m)+carmona(7M) and packaging them with hafner(13m). Hafners deal only runs thru 2013 @ 13 per. This opens the door for us to pursue Votto. The deal would be:

Zambrano(18m)+marmol(7)+Colvin+3m for +Carmona(7m)+Hafner(13m)...basically its a money wash and we remove z and get a 1st baseman and potential starter/long reliever..saves us about 2m. Would love for them to include sizemore and us removing the 3M thus making it almost a total wash moneywise.

 

gives cleveland a solid number 2 behind jimenez and a closer locked up for a few more years plus colvin .Not to mention that it saves them 6M+ in 2013. the Indians already have Laporta at 1st. Now granted carmona is not on the rise as he once was but he is the perfect candidate to come to the NL and benefit, plus he is under contract with club options for a couple more years so we arent married to him after 2012. Sizemore has been hurt but is said to be healthy again,,,i dont think the indians want to pay him 8m so they may let him go..if so he has to be a target.

 

C. TRADE 2= M. BYRD, Sczur, j jax, cashner to tampa bay for upton+shields

i hate to give up cashner here but you gotta give something to get something. Upton is a perfect fit for the 'theo player...skilled and young and under control till 2016. plus shields is under control for 3 years. We take on around 7M in this deal in 2012.

 

D. sign Paul Maholm

 

E. sign Matt Capps-2/20

these 5 transactions leave our roster looking like this

 

OF-Soriano, Upton, Sizemore, Bjax, Johnson,campana

SP-Garza, Shields,Maholm, Dempster, Wells,

RP- Capps, Wood, Marshall, russell, samardzija, carmona, carpenter/dolis,

INF- Castro, Barney, Ramirez, hafner, lemahieu, lahair, dewitt

 

all these moves give us flexibility and make us competitive in 2012 i think.

Thanks for chiming in! SCF takes me back a looong time - I still use the account here for testing once in a while, though.

 

I honestly believe that StL extending Berkman signaled that they were giving up on Pujols. I don't know if we'll end up with him, but I think we have as good a chance as anyone once he hits FA.

 

Boston could win the WS with Doug M at 1B because they had star players all over the rest of the diamond. Without one of the big 1B, the Cubs won't have that next year.

 

I like the outside the box ideas, though.

[toonsterwu]

People talking about making Cashner a future closer makes me irrationally angry

 

I don't want him to be the future closer, but for that to happen, I think he probably needs to be in the minors as a starter in 2012 (and even then, his innings would have to be controlled a fair bit). I'm not sold that the Cubs will do that. If they do, I'll be happy.

 

But ... if Cashner is in the pen in 2012 in the bigs, that's going to make it quite tough for him to throw effective starter innings in 2013. Not impossible, as you could send him to winter ball, and really control his innings early in 2013 to build things up, but that leaves aside developmental questions on his changeup, a pitch he probably wouldn't use as much out of the pen.

 

But, unlike a year or two ago, the chances of Cashner ending up long term in the pen have to be acknowledged as higher than before.

[toonsterwu]

One name that is thought to be available, but hasn't been discussed here before is Carlos Quentin. Third base is what it is - it's a bad market. That said, we probably need another power bat in the lineup, and the White Sox will reportedly listen on Quentin. He's not great in RF, but you could do worse. He'd be in his age 29/30 season in 2012, in his prime.

 

Problem is, I'm just not sure we match-up all that well, assuming Kenny wants, as he said, young MLB-ready talent. That said, in getting front office pieces from Boston and San Diego, we could conceivably work a three-way, so it's not out of the question in regards to going after Quentin.

 

Carlos Quentin is one of the worst defensive players in the MLB IIRC. Plus there's some injury worry.

 

Well, I'm only skimming UZR right now, but he was passable in RF in 2011. He was absolutely horrific, in terms of UZR, in 2010. I imagine he's probably below average overall, but I don't know if he's as bad as he was in 2010. Maybe he is.

 

That said, we also don't know what internal measures theo and Co. may have developed on run prevention, and UZR is a notoriously shaky stat to look at anyways.

[brinoch]

hello everyone. wanted to chime in on this. ive been lurking here for years..was a posting member back when tim first started out...sanclementefan hahaha.. heres some thoughts

 

 

Welcome, Huff! (or is it welcome to posting?) Interesting analysis. A lot of good thought went into the post.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Well, I'm only skimming UZR right now, but he was passable in RF in 2011. He was absolutely horrific, in terms of UZR, in 2010. I imagine he's probably below average overall, but I don't know if he's as bad as he was in 2010. Maybe he is.

 

That said, we also don't know what internal measures theo and Co. may have developed on run prevention, and UZR is a notoriously shaky stat to look at anyways.

 

It's not just UZR. He's just not fun to watch work. He's slow, doesn't throw well, doesn't really move all that well...

[BCVM22]

B. TRADE 1 =talk to the indians about picking up the club options they hold on sizemore(8m)+carmona(7M) and packaging them with hafner(13m).

 

Certainly don't take this as an indictment of you, but Hafner as a full-time first baseman would be awful. He's oft-injured and the Indians certainly didn't make him a full-time DH because they had someone great blocking him at first base. The Indians never played him for a full season at first base to begin with - his career high in starts at the position is 40, set all the way back in 2003.

[toonsterwu]

Thanks for chiming in! SCF takes me back a looong time - I still use the account here for testing once in a while, though.

 

I honestly believe that StL extending Berkman signaled that they were giving up on Pujols. I don't know if we'll end up with him, but I think we have as good a chance as anyone once he hits FA.

 

Boston could win the WS with Doug M at 1B because they had star players all over the rest of the diamond. Without one of the big 1B, the Cubs won't have that next year.

 

I like the outside the box ideas, though.

 

I actually viewed it as more incentive to try and lure Pujols back. More, hey, look, we didn't deal him midseason, and we're bringing him back, so we have another run in us.

 

Their payroll was at 110 mil this past year, roughly. Cots has them on the hook for roughly 75 mil. I'm not going to go through and do the calculations, so if that's off, then oops.

 

Assuming that DeWitt and Co. decide that they can keep it at 110-115, that's 35-40 mil to play with. Assuming that Pujols gets a backloaded deal of some type, they could fit him in and still have around 10-15 mil to play with (let's assume that he gets some sort of 28-30 mil AAV, for 2012, it could be closer to 25 mil). Not enough to address enough holes and account for possible raises through arbitration, but they do have a strong system and there are a couple places where some fat could probably be cut. In a weak pitching market, it's not impossible to envision a market developing for veterans like Lohse/Westbrook. They have Wainwright coming back. Removing one of them, if possible, could save them either 8.5 mil (westbrook) or 12 mil ish (Lohse). Even if we assume they have to eat a tiny bit of money, that's still significant savings.

 

Rhodes option didn't vest, Theriot could be non-tendered. Their bullpen is fairly young. If they wanted to, Schumaker and McClellan could both be non-tendered. Descalso could probably take over at 2nd base, and Freese/Craig have shown enough to imagine they'll get continued playing time. I imagine Furcal's option will be declined. That leaves relatively big holes at ... shortstop and ... well, that's about it, and they'd still have money to play with. Obviously, depth is of some concern, but there are a couple upper level pieces that could probably fill some roles.

 

I think the Cardinals could easily keep Pujols and still have a strong squad next year if they wanted. Add in this surprising World Series run and push to a Game 7, and I'll be surprised if Pujols is in another uniform.

[dew1679666265]

I'm pretty well on board with TT on the types of moves the Cubs should make. Pujols/Prince is a near must and we really need an elite arm as well. CJ Wilson would be a perfect fit for this team, I think, as he only has around 700 MLB innings on his arm, so he should be more durable than your typical 31 year old starter. I also think his pricetag could well stay in the $80-90 mil range instead of $100+ as CC, Darvish, Oswalt, and Buerhle could keep the interest a bit limited on Wilson.

 

We need a secondary arm to go along with Wilson and I'm highly intrigued by Japanese lefty Wei-Yin Chen. He's just 26 years old and unlike Danks (who I like quite a bit) he would cost only money and not prospects. In his two years primarily starting, he's posted an ERA of 1.54 and WHIP of 0.93 in 2009 and 2.87 ERA and 1.14 WHIP in 2010. Clearly this would depend largely on what Theo/Hoyer and their scouts think of him, but this could be a shrewd move on the part of the new Cubs management.

 

If we could come out of the offseason with primary moves of Pujols/Wilson/Chen, I'd be pretty thrilled. If this doesn't give us the funds to keep Aramis, I'd look at Chase Headley in trade or just platoon Baker (.900+ career OPS v lefties) and someone (LeMahieu, Flaherty, Kouzmanoff, Wilson Betemit are all cheap options we could look at).

 

I wouldn't touch the bullpen as we have plenty of young relievers we can try out in the pen. Bring back Shark if the funds work out, same with Wood. Deal Marmol if there's a good trade to be had and if you do, replace him with Carpenter (Wood or Marshall become the closer). I would look at bargain SP, though: Jeff Francis might be interesting on a one year deal or even Hiroki Kuroda if his age (37) makes him fall through the cracks and come really cheap.

[toonsterwu]

I doubt Kuroda will come cheap, and moreoever, he really prefers LA. The Yankees may make a push at him, so we'll see how much LA is a factor in regards to where he wants to pitch, but it's hard to imagine the Cubs really fitting into the Kuroda picture. Only time will tell.

 

I still wouldn't mind a gamble on Chien-Ming Wang, but I expect he'll go back to the Nationals.

 

I wouldn't mind taking a gamble on Chen, but I'd caution against expecting too much. He can peak mid-90's, but he sits more low 90's. It wouldn't surprise anyone if his velocity with the American ball is actually a tick below what he has in Japan. His secondary stuff is solid, but not exceptional. Feels more like an end of the rotation starter to me, but as with guys like Chen, I really hope they prove my initial hunch wrong.

 

In some respects, the market for Wilson might be greater than say, Fielder. A lot of teams will be in on Wilson, whereas some teams either don't have the room for Fielder, or will shy away due to his physique. That said, I don't know, but feels like Wilson could simply come down to money.

 

I'd really love to get Headley, but this was a guy that Hoyer labeled as a guy for the Padres to build around. Unless the Padres want to do us favors (and I guess they have already), it's hard to imagine them moving him unless it's a huge return, particularly when they don't have money issues for this upcoming season and because their deep 3rd base talent may end up at other spots (Darnell/Rincon) or may be more of a utility guy (Gyorko).

[XZero771679666304]

Both the AL East monsters need starting pitching in a bad way (though if Wilson was serious about the gun laws he won't be going to Boston), so getting Wilson could cost more than it would be worth.

 

Though having said that, his poor performance this postseason will lower his price somewhat.

[dew1679666265]

I doubt Kuroda will come cheap, and moreoever, he really prefers LA. The Yankees may make a push at him, so we'll see how much LA is a factor in regards to where he wants to pitch, but it's hard to imagine the Cubs really fitting into the Kuroda picture. Only time will tell.

 

You're probably right on this. That's kind of why I threw him in at the end of the pots - the likelihood is somebody gives him a deal of some substance or he just wants to stay in LA. However, Kuroda's age makes him more likely than most pitchers of his ability to be ignored through the FA process.

 

I still wouldn't mind a gamble on Chien-Ming Wang, but I expect he'll go back to the Nationals.

 

Wang would have to come really cheap, but I'd prefer a guy like Jeff Francis. Wang is older than Francis (32 vs 30) and Francis has had a little more consistent success than Wang more recently. Neither have had their peak for about 5 years, though.

 

I wouldn't mind taking a gamble on Chen, but I'd caution against expecting too much. He can peak mid-90's, but he sits more low 90's. It wouldn't surprise anyone if his velocity with the American ball is actually a tick below what he has in Japan. His secondary stuff is solid, but not exceptional. Feels more like an end of the rotation starter to me, but as with guys like Chen, I really hope they prove my initial hunch wrong.

 

Yeah, looking at Chen's arsenal I was thinking he'd at least start as a back of the rotation starter or long reliever, but if he could refine the slider and develop the forkball, he could move into the middle of the rotation. At 26, he has age on his side and he may be overlooked with Darvish being the import that grabs headlines.

 

This is more a hunch on my part that the Theo/Hoyer system might be able to take a talented, young lefty without a lot of mileage and help him take that next step. Danks would be more of a sure thing, but would also cost some of our better prospects. Chen wouldn't, and that's the reason for a lot of my interest in him.

 

In some respects, the market for Wilson might be greater than say, Fielder. A lot of teams will be in on Wilson, whereas some teams either don't have the room for Fielder, or will shy away due to his physique. That said, I don't know, but feels like Wilson could simply come down to money.

 

The thing with most of the teams that need pitching, most could do fine with mid-rotation type guys. If a team is looking to make a splashy signing (like the Nats, for instance), Darvish would seem to fit the bill a bit better than Wilson. Teams like the Red Sox and Yankees may be wary of entering into another major contract and choose to fill their pitching need with 2nd tier guys like Buerhle and Oswalt. I could be wrong, but it may come down to primarily Cubs vs Rangers for Wilson.

 

I'd really love to get Headley, but this was a guy that Hoyer labeled as a guy for the Padres to build around. Unless the Padres want to do us favors (and I guess they have already), it's hard to imagine them moving him unless it's a huge return, particularly when they don't have money issues for this upcoming season and because their deep 3rd base talent may end up at other spots (Darnell/Rincon) or may be more of a utility guy (Gyorko).

 

Headley's kind of a pipedream, but it's possible Byrnes values Headley differently than Hoyer. Hoyer taking over the Cubs may actually increase the possibility of Headley coming to the Cubs if he values Headley more than Byrnes does. Highly unlikely move, but one I'd like to see happen if possible.

[dew1679666265]

Both the AL East monsters need starting pitching in a bad way (though if Wilson was serious about the gun laws he won't be going to Boston), so getting Wilson could cost more than it would be worth.

 

Though having said that, his poor performance this postseason will lower his price somewhat.

 

Both AL East monsters may also be wary of new major contracts, though. Obviously they could afford Wilson if they want him badly enough, but they're not in need of star power so much as quality pitching. Oswalt or Buerhle could provide that for them without them committing 5 years to yet another big name guy. The Yankees also have CC to restructure his contract and the Red Sox may be a tad more conservative after the Crawford, Lackey, and Daisuke contracts.

 

I think there's a realistic chance the Yankees and Red Sox don't get that involved in the Wilson bidding, or that they bow out more quickly than they may generally.

[toonsterwu]

Both the AL East monsters need starting pitching in a bad way (though if Wilson was serious about the gun laws he won't be going to Boston), so getting Wilson could cost more than it would be worth.

 

Though having said that, his poor performance this postseason will lower his price somewhat.

 

I still think the Nationals are the team I'd really watch in the CJ Wilson derby. They are willing to bid heavy, and they have a lot of money to spend. They have a good bullpen (even if Clippard gets moved, there's enough pieces to be solid ahead of Storen), and a good young positional core that is one top of the order bat away from being a lot better as a unit (I mean, Rick Ankiel was leading off for them quite a bit this past year). A rotation of Strasburg/Wilson/Zimmerman/Detwiler/Wang would, on paper, look really good, and they'd have Milone/Peacock in AAA, along with a deep system to make moves. Money to spend and a competitive situation ... I really think they'll be in it.

 

I don't know if Boston can afford CJ Wilson right now. They are pretty tapped out in terms of money spent on the rotation. The return of Buchholz next year will be as big as anything for them. Blue Jays, on the other hand, could be a sleeper, although my hunch is they go hard after Darvish (I tend to think Theo and Co. may make a push on Darvish as awell). And if Baltimore throws piles of money at CJ, a lot more than other teams, it might be interesting to see if he'd pull the trigger on the Orioles. The Marlins may be in on this.

 

For the teams that miss out on CJ, I think some of them will end up trying to trade for impending FA's after the 2012 season.

[toonsterwu]

toonsterwu wrote:

In some respects, the market for Wilson might be greater than say, Fielder. A lot of teams will be in on Wilson, whereas some teams either don't have the room for Fielder, or will shy away due to his physique. That said, I don't know, but feels like Wilson could simply come down to money.

 

 

The thing with most of the teams that need pitching, most could do fine with mid-rotation type guys. If a team is looking to make a splashy signing (like the Nats, for instance), Darvish would seem to fit the bill a bit better than Wilson. Teams like the Red Sox and Yankees may be wary of entering into another major contract and choose to fill their pitching need with 2nd tier guys like Buerhle and Oswalt. I could be wrong, but it may come down to primarily Cubs vs Rangers for Wilson.

 

Off the top, I don't believe the Nats have a really strong presence in Asia. I'd have to double check, but I really have high doubts that they'd be heavily in on Darvish. Wilson makes more sense for them than Darvish, IMO, because he offers more of a proven record, and as exciting as Strasburg/Zimmerman/Detwiler look, they still are three young guys who could go through some growing pains.

[dew1679666265]

Off the top, I don't believe the Nats have a really strong presence in Asia. I'd have to double check, but I really have high doubts that they'd be heavily in on Darvish. Wilson makes more sense for them than Darvish, IMO, because he offers more of a proven record, and as exciting as Strasburg/Zimmerman/Detwiler look, they still are three young guys who could go through some growing pains.

 

Using this reasoning, wouldn't pursuing Buerhle/Oswalt be the more preferential route for Washington? Strasburg and Zimmermann would be their top of the rotation guys and then either Oswalt or Buerhle provides some stability in the middle of the rotation. I don't know, maybe I'm subconsciously just making stuff up to make Wilson more realistic for the Cubs, but it seems if they want a splash Darvish makes more sense and if they want a proven track record then Buerhle/Oswalt makes more sense. Not having a presence in Asia would make them less likely to pursue Darvish, though.

[toonsterwu]

Well ... I think they are looking for impact more than steadying influence. That's been Rizzo's mantra for the last couple of seasons - trying to land that impact starter. Furthermore, hard to know how much Oswalt has left. I have doubts Buehrle would head this far east, but that's just a hunch (and if my calculations on the Cardinals are correct, it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up there on a hometown discount type of deal).

 

The Nats are so deep, though, that one thing is, I wonder if they might get gun-shy about over-spending after the Werth deal. I doubt it, but they have the system depth to pry away almost any pitcher if they are willing to be aggressive. Then again, maybe they like Peacock/Milone enough to not get aggressive, or they might view AJ Cole as potentially a fast mover (one of the more impressive pitching performances I saw in the minors this year was by Cole ... granted, everyone acknowledged that his stuff was too good for Low A anyways, but considering his age, impressive nonetheless, and the season numbers were good). With the Phillies aging, and the Marlins/Mets a step back, the Nats may view the next few years as the best time to make a push.

 

I'm still not all that sold that the Nats will shy away from Fielder/Pujols. They'd have free up some money (namely, move Adam LaRoche and a few other moves), but it sure feels like creative movement could make it happen. That said, they have sent out signals suggesting otherwise as of now.

[Guest]

Their payroll was at 110 mil this past year, roughly. Cots has them on the hook for roughly 75 mil. I'm not going to go through and do the calculations, so if that's off, then oops.

 

Assuming that DeWitt and Co. decide that they can keep it at 110-115, that's 35-40 mil to play with. Assuming that Pujols gets a backloaded deal of some type, they could fit him in and still have around 10-15 mil to play with (let's assume that he gets some sort of 28-30 mil AAV, for 2012, it could be closer to 25 mil). Not enough to address enough holes and account for possible raises through arbitration, but they do have a strong system and there are a couple places where some fat could probably be cut. In a weak pitching market, it's not impossible to envision a market developing for veterans like Lohse/Westbrook. They have Wainwright coming back. Removing one of them, if possible, could save them either 8.5 mil (westbrook) or 12 mil ish (Lohse). Even if we assume they have to eat a tiny bit of money, that's still significant savings.

 

Rhodes option didn't vest, Theriot could be non-tendered. Their bullpen is fairly young. If they wanted to, Schumaker and McClellan could both be non-tendered. Descalso could probably take over at 2nd base, and Freese/Craig have shown enough to imagine they'll get continued playing time. I imagine Furcal's option will be declined. That leaves relatively big holes at ... shortstop and ... well, that's about it, and they'd still have money to play with. Obviously, depth is of some concern, but there are a couple upper level pieces that could probably fill some roles.

 

I think the Cardinals could easily keep Pujols and still have a strong squad next year if they wanted. Add in this surprising World Series run and push to a Game 7, and I'll be surprised if Pujols is in another uniform.

 

Once they pick up Molina's option, because let's face it, they're bringing back Molina, they'll be at 80 million for 8 players. If their payroll is going to be at that 115 mark, it becomes incredibly tight to sign Pujols and address any of their other potential issues(2B, SS, CF, SP). They can probably do it, but it would come with some pain.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Byrd is essentially a serviceable placeholder at best. Perfectly tolerable give how little he makes and that he'll be gone after this coming season.

 

That's why I want to move him. I really can't see the 2012 team contending. For this reason, Byrd is the guy with some legit trade value.

 

 

You really can't?

 

We had an average offense last year, at least one of our main competitors is likely to get much weaker and we have a bunch of money to spend and a smart guy to spend it.

 

Oh, yea, and we basically had a bunch of corpses as starting pitchers 30 times last year.

 

I think they could, if constructed that way, but Theo will be building in the interest of the future. If we could get some prospects for Marlon Byrd, and then acquire a younger guy for RF that's what will likely happen. If not, like Mojo said earlier there's no urgrency to trade him and if nothing else, move him at the deadline.

 

My main point is that I don't think that there will be a lot of big changes, and unless a top starting pitcher becomes availbale through trade, the only addition I'd expect is Fielder and some guys from the farm.

[Little Slide Rooter]

People talking about making Cashner a future closer makes me irrationally angry

 

Same here, because they can always go to "well we don't know where he's at after the injury" or something in that area pertaining to arm strength and the injury.

 

I'd rather see him go all Matt Latos on their asses.

 

Yeah, have several guys that could be potential closers, such as Carpenter, Kurcz, Dolis, Beliveau, and Marshall. Quality starting pitching is far more important and harder to come by. They need to give him a few years in the rotation, and if durability proves to be an issue, then maybe move him to the pen.

[Guest]

Byrd is essentially a serviceable placeholder at best. Perfectly tolerable give how little he makes and that he'll be gone after this coming season.

 

That's why I want to move him. I really can't see the 2012 team contending. For this reason, Byrd is the guy with some legit trade value.

 

 

You really can't?

 

We had an average offense last year, at least one of our main competitors is likely to get much weaker and we have a bunch of money to spend and a smart guy to spend it.

 

Oh, yea, and we basically had a bunch of corpses as starting pitchers 30 times last year.

 

I think they could, if constructed that way, but Theo will be building in the interest of the future. If we could get some prospects for Marlon Byrd, and then acquire a younger guy for RF that's what will likely happen. If not, like Mojo said earlier there's no urgrency to trade him and if nothing else, move him at the deadline.

 

My main point is that I don't think that there will be a lot of big changes, and unless a top starting pitcher becomes availbale through trade, the only addition I'd expect is Fielder and some guys from the farm.

 

 

Why would trading what few prospects we have for a starter be a better move for the future than signing CJ Wilson and keeping all of our minor leaguers?

 

And I still don't get what we're going to do with all that extra baseball money if we don't spend it on MLB payroll.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Byrd is essentially a serviceable placeholder at best. Perfectly tolerable give how little he makes and that he'll be gone after this coming season.

 

That's why I want to move him. I really can't see the 2012 team contending. For this reason, Byrd is the guy with some legit trade value.

 

 

You really can't?

 

We had an average offense last year, at least one of our main competitors is likely to get much weaker and we have a bunch of money to spend and a smart guy to spend it.

 

Oh, yea, and we basically had a bunch of corpses as starting pitchers 30 times last year.

 

I think they could, if constructed that way, but Theo will be building in the interest of the future. If we could get some prospects for Marlon Byrd, and then acquire a younger guy for RF that's what will likely happen. If not, like Mojo said earlier there's no urgrency to trade him and if nothing else, move him at the deadline.

 

My main point is that I don't think that there will be a lot of big changes, and unless a top starting pitcher becomes availbale through trade, the only addition I'd expect is Fielder and some guys from the farm.

 

 

Why would trading what few prospects we have for a starter be a better move for the future than signing CJ Wilson and keeping all of our minor leaguers?

 

And I still don't get what we're going to do with all that extra baseball money if we don't spend it on MLB payroll.

 

Spend it when the right fit comes along. CJs been great in his 2 years as a starter, especially in a hitters park but I really don't see him as a 18-20 mil guy. If it comes down to that, I'd just as soon let the Yankees, Red Sox, and Nationals fight it out for him and hope that next year we can get someone like Cain, Lincecum, Hamels, or Danks.

 

I guess it depends on how much they want to spend this offseason. Fielder will easily be 22-25 mil/year. Then add Wilson at say, 15-17 mil, which is the most I'd want to spend on him. The good news is that we don't need to spend any money on the pen. Unless we can get Aaron Hill for cheap, we don't really need to fill anyother holes, so if they want to go in that direction they could sign both Fielder and Wilson.

 

I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see it, I'm just not expecting it.