Re: Darvish

[Tracer Bullet]

Great. Now we get an entire thread of spurned lovers.

[davell]

We've got 3 top 100 guys right now in Brett, Szczur, and Baez. We've got a guy like McNutt that has solid value. We have guys like Vitters, Rhee, Lake, and Ha that have some value on the trade market or hope that they can become averahish major league starters. And we've got high upside guys like Vogelbach, Maples. Candelario, that could make huge progress and enter into top 100 type lists. Basically, it's a very average to slightly below average system. So, in trading Garza, Marshall, and possibly Marmol and Soto, you're adding at least 3 more top 100 guys and hopefully at least 3 more guys as well that have the ability to do so. Now, the system looks solid for sure. Possibly top 10ish. Then, you go out, sign Soler, sign Concepcion if he's worth it, and anyone else you can. Now, you've transformed your system into a borderline top 5 system most likely in one offseason and have the 6th pick and 3 more within the top 75 to count on as well. This matters obviously, because while we'll be using some of these guys to fill holes and hopefully a couple turn into much more than space fillers, the main thing is it puts us in position to trade effectively for whatever we can or want. I don't know what kind of impact guys will be on the trade market next year, but there's always some guys out there and we could go get them this way, much easier than previously.

[davearm2]

You don't do it to appease fans, you do it to put the best baseball team possible on the field in 2012.

Thankfully, putting the best baseball team possible on the field in 2012 isn't Theo's #1 priority.

 

Building a perennial contender is Theo's #1 priority. Achieving that objective may involve trading guys like Garza and Marshall, even at the expense of 2012.

 

But I'm sure you knew that.

 

Because the only way to put a competitive team on the field in 2012 is by ruining the long-term future of the franchise.

Don't start with this garbage again. Nobody's saying that.

[davell]

By the way, for anyone still wanting to out the absolute best product possible on the field for 2012, what' YOUR plan? I wanted Darvish and Fielder personally, but missing on Darvish, leaves us in a bidding war for Fielder now. Texas is still going to go after him. Toronto as well. Washington could make a splash, so could Seattle. Getting him for 5/125 is NOT happening. With so many AL teams involved, I could see 8/200 actually happening. I'm not opposed to having guys with bad contracts at the end of their deals. Not at all. Including Fielder, even at 8 years. But, in the right situation. And now, I'm not sure it is. My idea was to add 4 stars over 2 offseasons. Going to be tougher to do that now. If someone can show me a truly feasible offseason we can still have, putting a contender out there for 2012 and not hurt us in the future, I'm all ears, because I just don't see it.

[Backtobanks]

By the way, for anyone still wanting to out the absolute best product possible on the field for 2012, what' YOUR plan? I wanted Darvish and Fielder personally, but missing on Darvish, leaves us in a bidding war for Fielder now. Texas is still going to go after him. Toronto as well. Washington could make a splash, so could Seattle. Getting him for 5/125 is NOT happening. With so many AL teams involved, I could see 8/200 actually happening. I'm not opposed to having guys with bad contracts at the end of their deals. Not at all. Including Fielder, even at 8 years. But, in the right situation. And now, I'm not sure it is. My idea was to add 4 stars over 2 offseasons. Going to be tougher to do that now. If someone can show me a truly feasible offseason we can still have, putting a contender out there for 2012 and not hurt us in the future, I'm all ears, because I just don't see it.

 

Well it looks like we're not going to add any stars this offseason which means we have to add 4 next offseason in addition to filling the new holes we will have by then.

[pccubfan]

By the way, for anyone still wanting to out the absolute best product possible on the field for 2012, what' YOUR plan? I wanted Darvish and Fielder personally, but missing on Darvish, leaves us in a bidding war for Fielder now. Texas is still going to go after him. Toronto as well. Washington could make a splash, so could Seattle. Getting him for 5/125 is NOT happening. With so many AL teams involved, I could see 8/200 actually happening. I'm not opposed to having guys with bad contracts at the end of their deals. Not at all. Including Fielder, even at 8 years. But, in the right situation. And now, I'm not sure it is. My idea was to add 4 stars over 2 offseasons. Going to be tougher to do that now. If someone can show me a truly feasible offseason we can still have, putting a contender out there for 2012 and not hurt us in the future, I'm all ears, because I just don't see it.

 

Impact free agents are going to cost you more than they are worth long-term. It's a fact supported by the signings this year. Either the Cubs are going to have to resign themselves to the fact that they are going to overpay, or they are going to have to take the route that may produce a winner four or five years down the road through the farm system. I'm not sure that the fanbase will get behind the second scenario.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Impact free agents are going to cost you more than they are worth long-term. It's a fact supported by the signings this year.

 

No, they aren't. This is a myth that pretends that the value of all players is the generic market value the player has to the average team.

[dew1679666265]

By the way, for anyone still wanting to out the absolute best product possible on the field for 2012, what' YOUR plan? I wanted Darvish and Fielder personally, but missing on Darvish, leaves us in a bidding war for Fielder now. Texas is still going to go after him. Toronto as well. Washington could make a splash, so could Seattle. Getting him for 5/125 is NOT happening. With so many AL teams involved, I could see 8/200 actually happening. I'm not opposed to having guys with bad contracts at the end of their deals. Not at all. Including Fielder, even at 8 years. But, in the right situation. And now, I'm not sure it is. My idea was to add 4 stars over 2 offseasons. Going to be tougher to do that now. If someone can show me a truly feasible offseason we can still have, putting a contender out there for 2012 and not hurt us in the future, I'm all ears, because I just don't see it.

 

At this point I think it's important to balance between a rebuilding mode and a contending mode. There's no way to put a competitive team on the field in 2012 at this point, but at the same time selling off all our good pieces and having to either rebuild for 3-4 years or go crazy signing FAs and making trades to be even remotely competitive in 2013 shouldn't be an option either.

 

My plan would be to pursue Prince aggressively, do almost whatever it takes to sign Soler and Cespedes, and start/keep shopping guys like Soto, Marmol, and Marshall. I would prefer to keep Garza because I see him as being a very good asset beyond 2012, but if somebody absolutely blew me away with a deal then I'd consider it. I'd also stay away from guys like Edwin Jackson, Paul Maholm, Hiroki Kuroda, and others who will take multiple years to sign and are very unlikely to live up to the money we'd be paying them. At this point I think we have to conserve as much money as possible (without tearing apart the current team) to pursue whatever elite pitching is on the market next offseason. I'd also scour the lower levels of FA to find value pieces like W-Y Chen, Francis, Owings, Wood and Kazmir, that either can be long-term pieces or who could have a rebound half a season and then net a prospect of some type at the deadline.

 

Basically, look to move out the guys who likely won't be part of the team beyond 2012 who could net a return of some significance and try to add guys who either are impact players (Prince) or could become impact players (Soler, Cespedes) and take some of the pressure off of us during the 2013 offseason.

[jersey cubs fan]

Sign Fielder and the Cubans and hope to hell your pitching doesn't suck.

[davell]

Sign Fielder and the Cubans and hope to hell your pitching doesn't suck.

Ok, so then what? No pitching for this year? What are your contracts for these 3?

[SouthSideRyan]

Sign Fielder and the Cubans and hope to hell your pitching doesn't suck.

Ok, so then what? No pitching for this year? What are your contracts for these 3?

 

He'd have Matt Garza and whoever's in the system instead of Edwin Jackson and Bruce Chen. Oh no!

[davell]

Sign Fielder and the Cubans and hope to hell your pitching doesn't suck.

Ok, so then what? No pitching for this year? What are your contracts for these 3?

 

He'd have Matt Garza and whoever's in the system instead of Edwin Jackson and Bruce Chen. Oh no!

Awesome. What makes this smartass comment even better is I'm talking about Wei Yin Chen. Bruce Chen is already signed. As for Jackson, he's not ideal either, but he's 28 and has been an 11.2 WAR pitcher for the past 3 seasons with a low of 3.6. But yeah, your response was great, way to go man!

[Guest]

Sign Fielder and the Cubans and hope to hell your pitching doesn't suck.

Ok, so then what? No pitching for this year? What are your contracts for these 3?

 

He'd have Matt Garza and whoever's in the system instead of Edwin Jackson and Bruce Chen. Oh no!

 

Wrong guy.

 

EDIT - Whoops.

[SouthSideRyan]

Does the difference in Chens really change things in terms of pitching for next year?

[Guest]

Sign Fielder and the Cubans and hope to hell your pitching doesn't suck.

Ok, so then what? No pitching for this year? What are your contracts for these 3?

 

He'd have Matt Garza and whoever's in the system instead of Edwin Jackson and Bruce Chen. Oh no!

Awesome. What makes this smartass comment even better is I'm talking about Wei Yin Chen. Bruce Chen is already signed. As for Jackson, he's not ideal either, but he's 28 and has been an 11.2 WAR pitcher for the past 3 seasons with a low of 3.6. But yeah, your response was great, way to go man!

 

So is he wrong? I don't think you're really getting a net gain from Jackson and Chen v. Garza and Cashner/Samardzija/etc.

[jersey cubs fan]

way to go man

[Guest]

According to ESPN New York's Andrew Marchand, the Yankees bid less than $20 million for Yu Darvish.

The Rangers won exclusive negotiating rights to the Japanese right-hander with a record $51.7 million posting fee. Compared to that effort, the Yankees barely even tried. Darvish, 25, posted a sparkling 1.44 ERA and 276/36 K/BB ratio in 232 innings this past season in Nippon Professional Baseball. Texas now has a 30-day window to work out a contract with him. The Cubs also bid less than $20 million, according to Marchand.

 

rotoworld.

[mookie]

So, The Cubs bid less than 20 million. Why bid at all?

[davearm2]

So, The Cubs bid less than 20 million. Why bid at all?

Because it doesn't cost anything, and they'd look like complete and utter incompetent boobs if they chose to sit out and the bidding didn't get as high as everyone expected.

[mookie]

So, The Cubs bid less than 20 million. Why bid at all?

Because it doesn't cost anything, and they'd look like complete and utter incompetent boobs if they chose to sit out and the bidding didn't get as high as everyone expected.

 

That is one way to look at it, but it doesn't ring true for Darvish.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So, The Cubs bid less than 20 million. Why bid at all?

 

I dunno. Why offer Pujols a five-year deal?

[mookie]

So, The Cubs bid less than 20 million. Why bid at all?

 

I dunno. Why offer Pujols a five-year deal?

 

Yeah, I get the just in case scenario. 35 million would ring a touch more, I don't know, realistic. It isn't like there wasn't interest in the guy. And it also isn't like there was any type of precedent.

[imb]

Does the difference in Chens really change things in terms of pitching for next year?

 

if you squint, you can hardly tell a difference

[bukie]

So, even after all the misinformation via Twitter about the bids, people reporting the wrong winners, and full knowledge of the secretive process of the bids, we're still just going to accept that a New York source somehow knows the Cubs bid?

[treebird]

Does the difference in Chens really change things in terms of pitching for next year?

 

if you squint, you can hardly tell a difference

 

9.4 - 1.5pt white guilt penalty = still strong 7.9