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Posted
His crappy defense matters.

 

So does the fact that he's shown an (fairly, though not completely, unprecedented) exceptional ability to hit for average at a very young age and appears to be developing the ability to hit for power that his frame suggests he might.

 

He's 21 years old FFS.

 

All of which is very exciting. But he's got one pre-arbitration year left and he's still a 3-WAR player if you take the most generous estimations of his defense and a 2 WAR player if you don't. Not exactly the caliber of player that makes me think "Oh man, you can't possibly afford to waste these sweet cheap pre-FA years."

 

You don't seem to understand what the heck people are talking about when they refer to wasting his cheap years.

 

By the time he no longer has any flaws, he'll make $20m a year.

 

He'll presumably be a much better player by then, so I'm more worried about those years than the next one.

 

His immediately upcoming cheap years, it looks like he'll be an above-average starter, but not much more than that. Our farm system had better be producing those with regularity in the future, so why the pressure to not "waste" these years?

Posted (edited)
No, we're making spray charts.

 

For a SS having a slightly less valuable season than J.J. Hardy in 1/3rd more playing time.

is that a bad thing? Hardy has more HR than Miguel Cabrera and Joey Votto

 

at 21 years old, he's slightly less valuable than a good SS who's having a career year offensively- the horror!

Edited by sneakypower
Posted
His crappy defense matters.

 

So does the fact that he's shown an (fairly, though not completely, unprecedented) exceptional ability to hit for average at a very young age and appears to be developing the ability to hit for power that his frame suggests he might.

 

He's 21 years old FFS.

 

All of which is very exciting. But he's got one pre-arbitration year left and he's still a 3-WAR player if you take the most generous estimations of his defense and a 2 WAR player if you don't. Not exactly the caliber of player that makes me think "Oh man, you can't possibly afford to waste these sweet cheap pre-FA years."

 

You don't seem to understand what the heck people are talking about when they refer to wasting his cheap years.

 

By the time he no longer has any flaws, he'll make $20m a year.

 

He'll presumably be a much better player by then, so I'm more worried about those years than the next one.

 

His immediately upcoming cheap years, it looks like he'll be an above-average starter, but not much more than that. Our farm system had better be producing those with regularity in the future, so why the pressure to not "waste" these years?

 

So lets trade him now, and find a way to re-aquire him on the cheap for the future when he's a much better player. Problem solved. Lets go home.

Posted
His immediately upcoming cheap years, it looks like he'll be an above-average starter, but not much more than that. Our farm system had better be producing those with regularity in the future, so why the pressure to not "waste" these years?

 

Because guys like Fielder and Pujols are available now and the Cubs can afford them.

Posted
His immediately upcoming cheap years, it looks like he'll be an above-average starter, but not much more than that. Our farm system had better be producing those with regularity in the future, so why the pressure to not "waste" these years?

 

Because guys like Fielder and Pujols are available now and the Cubs can afford them.

 

You don't need to use Starlin Castro's pre-FA years as justification for that.

Posted
Back to Castro, it we're going by WAR, according to BBR, his oWAR is 4.6, with a dWAR of -2.6, which yes, at this point in time bumps him down to a 2.0 WAR. However, his defense is likely to improve, and if he can't handle SS, he can be moved. Meanwhille, his offense is also likely to improve, ideally both his power and patience, so in the end, it's very possible that he could end up a 6-7 WAR player or better, so in conclusion, I would think that locking up him up should be a priority. No necessarily this offseason, but in the not too distant future.
Old-Timey Member
Posted
Back to Castro, it we're going by WAR, according to BBR, his oWAR is 4.6, with a dWAR of -2.6, which yes, at this point in time bumps him down to a 2.0 WAR. However, his defense is likely to improve, and if he can't handle SS, he can be moved. Meanwhille, his offense is also likely to improve, ideally both his power and patience, so in the end, it's very possible that he could end up a 6-7 WAR player or better, so in conclusion, I would think that locking up him up should be a priority. No necessarily this offseason, but in the not too distant future.

I believe the positional adjustment is at least +.5 wins for SS relative to 2B, but assuming he could play even replacement level defense at 2B (and I still believe that with maturity he will learn to play at or above replacement level at SS) he stands to develop into a 4+ win player.

Posted
Back to Castro, it we're going by WAR, according to BBR, his oWAR is 4.6, with a dWAR of -2.6, which yes, at this point in time bumps him down to a 2.0 WAR. However, his defense is likely to improve, and if he can't handle SS, he can be moved. Meanwhille, his offense is also likely to improve, ideally both his power and patience, so in the end, it's very possible that he could end up a 6-7 WAR player or better, so in conclusion, I would think that locking up him up should be a priority. No necessarily this offseason, but in the not too distant future.

 

Just in case it wasn't clear, the 4.6 and -2.6 are career numbers. For the season, he's at 2.8 and -1.4.

 

I do think he'll be a positive defensively at SS eventually, and at his peak should easily be a 6-WAR player.

Posted
Back to Castro, it we're going by WAR, according to BBR, his oWAR is 4.6, with a dWAR of -2.6, which yes, at this point in time bumps him down to a 2.0 WAR. However, his defense is likely to improve, and if he can't handle SS, he can be moved. Meanwhille, his offense is also likely to improve, ideally both his power and patience, so in the end, it's very possible that he could end up a 6-7 WAR player or better, so in conclusion, I would think that locking up him up should be a priority. No necessarily this offseason, but in the not too distant future.

 

Just in case it wasn't clear, the 4.6 and -2.6 are career numbers. For the season, he's at 2.8 and -1.4.

 

Guess I misread that. Still increase the power and OBP and work on the defense, and this is still a great player to have for years to come.

Posted

From Buster Olney. Might be speculation...who knows.

 

“@Buster_ESPN: It will be very interesting to see if the Cubs ask for permission to talk to Red Sox GM Theo Epstein;they could offer him a team presidency.”

Old-Timey Member
Posted

"It will be interesting to see if..."

Not a knock on you, WilcoFan, but has @Buster_ESPN ever been useful for anything other than making sure Buster Olney is alive?

Posted
From Buster Olney. Might be speculation...who knows.

 

“@Buster_ESPN: It will be very interesting to see if the Cubs ask for permission to talk to Red Sox GM Theo Epstein;they could offer him a team presidency.”

 

That would be incredible, but I'm going to assume it's speculation because I don't want to get my hopes to an unreal level.

Posted
From Buster Olney. Might be speculation...who knows.

 

“@Buster_ESPN: It will be very interesting to see if the Cubs ask for permission to talk to Red Sox GM Theo Epstein;they could offer him a team presidency.”

 

That would be incredible, but I'm going to assume it's speculation because I don't want to get my hopes to an unreal level.

 

Im guessing the reason most of us havent talked about Theo is because we pretty much consider getting him unrealistic since he's under contract through the end of next year and why would Boston let him go?

Guest
Guests
Posted
Speaking of Epstein, that Carl Crawford contract is looking worse than Soriano's.
Posted
Speaking of Epstein, that Carl Crawford contract is looking worse than Soriano's.

 

You can't get them all right. Especially under the pressure to compete with the Yankees for free agents. AJ Burnett may have the worst contract of all-time, but I would still love to have Cashman over just about anyone else (Everyone except Epstein). When the offseason comes around, we will envy Adrian Gonzalez's 7 year / 154 million dollar deal when it will take us at least $200 million to get Prince Fielder.

Posted
"It will be interesting to see if..."

Not a knock on you, WilcoFan, but has @Buster_ESPN ever been useful for anything other than making sure Buster Olney is alive?

 

Yeah I figure its just speculation. Still, it's nice to see the names getting mentioned.

Guest
Guests
Posted
Speaking of Epstein, that Carl Crawford contract is looking worse than Soriano's.

 

Isn't it WAY too soon to be declaring that?

 

 

Hence the bold.

 

Maybe he'll turn it around. I didn't think he was worth anywhere near what he got before this suck-fest of a season.

Guest
Guests
Posted
Speaking of Epstein, that Carl Crawford contract is looking worse than Soriano's.

 

You can't get them all right. Especially under the pressure to compete with the Yankees for free agents. AJ Burnett may have the worst contract of all-time, but I would still love to have Cashman over just about anyone else (Everyone except Epstein). When the offseason comes around, we will envy Adrian Gonzalez's 7 year / 154 million dollar deal when it will take us at least $200 million to get Prince Fielder.

 

 

$200M for Fielder?

 

 

Out.

Posted
Speaking of Epstein, that Carl Crawford contract is looking worse than Soriano's.

 

Isn't it WAY too soon to be declaring that?

 

 

Hence the bold.

 

Maybe he'll turn it around. I didn't think he was worth anywhere near what he got before this suck-fest of a season.

 

Holy crap; for some reason I thought he was getting like $110 million.

Posted (edited)
Speaking of Epstein, that Carl Crawford contract is looking worse than Soriano's.

 

You can't get them all right. Especially under the pressure to compete with the Yankees for free agents. AJ Burnett may have the worst contract of all-time, but I would still love to have Cashman over just about anyone else (Everyone except Epstein). When the offseason comes around, we will envy Adrian Gonzalez's 7 year / 154 million dollar deal when it will take us at least $200 million to get Prince Fielder.

 

 

$200M for Fielder?

 

 

Out.

 

Not saying that he is worth $200 million. But that's what he's gonna get. Whether it's from us for the Orioles. Boras is using the contracts of Texiera and Mauer as starting points.

Edited by MrCub14

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