Can the starting pitching be fixed for 2012?

[Outshined_One]

Given that Andrew Cashner is still undergoing rehab and hasn't even made any appearances in the minors yet, I think there's a really good possibility that he starts in AAA next season. The Cubs will have to monitor his usage very closely and he likely won't be able to go deep into games at the beginning of the season. It'd be easier to bring him back to full strength in the minors.

 

Considering the Cubs' in-house options are not exactly palatable, they may have to bring someone in to fill the #5 rotation spot, at least until Cashner's healthy.

[SouthSideRyan]

I wonder what Jason Marquis would cost. Or Javy Vazquez or Chris Young.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I wonder what Jason Marquis would cost. Or Javy Vazquez or Chris Young.

 

Chris Young would have to go in the low risk/decent reward pile.

[mul21]

I wonder what Jason Marquis would cost. Or Javy Vazquez or Chris Young.

 

Chris Young would have to go in the low risk/decent reward pile.

 

Well, if you could avoid pitching him on any days when the wind is blowing out, maybe.

[Magnetic Curses]

Why do we need top third of the NL pitching to compete in the worst division in baseball?

Because winning the division shouldn't be the goal. If the goal is to win the WS, the division will come. This attitude drives me crazy.

 

no team in the national league has the money to build a team to compete for a world series consistently. There are 2 teams in the american league that can look past the regular season year after year, but not one in the national league.

 

this nonsense about competing for a world series would make sense if the world series title were just the best record in baseball and there were no divisions whatsoever.

 

in baseball, you build to compete in the regular season and hope to get lucky in the playoffs.

[CubColtPacer]

Why do we need top third of the NL pitching to compete in the worst division in baseball?

Because winning the division shouldn't be the goal. If the goal is to win the WS, the division will come. This attitude drives me crazy.

 

no team in the national league has the money to build a team to compete for a world series consistently. There are 2 teams in the american league that can look past the regular season year after year, but not one in the national league.

 

this nonsense about competing for a world series would make sense if the world series title were just the best record in baseball and there were no divisions whatsoever.

 

in baseball, you build to compete in the regular season and hope to get lucky in the playoffs.

 

Minor nitpick-if the Phillies keep their payroll where it is, then they will have joined that group. They have the 2nd highest payroll in all of baseball this year.

[Magnetic Curses]

Why do we need top third of the NL pitching to compete in the worst division in baseball?

Because winning the division shouldn't be the goal. If the goal is to win the WS, the division will come. This attitude drives me crazy.

 

no team in the national league has the money to build a team to compete for a world series consistently. There are 2 teams in the american league that can look past the regular season year after year, but not one in the national league.

 

this nonsense about competing for a world series would make sense if the world series title were just the best record in baseball and there were no divisions whatsoever.

 

in baseball, you build to compete in the regular season and hope to get lucky in the playoffs.

 

Minor nitpick-if the Phillies keep their payroll where it is, then they will have joined that group. They have the 2nd highest payroll in all of baseball this year.

 

fair enough.

[Guest]

The Cubs have to think more than one year ahead here. Not only would it be good to only have to count on one of Cashner/Wells for 2012, but they're going to have to replace both Dempster and Zambrano for 2013. I think signing Wilson is almost as big a priority as signing Pujols/Fielder.

[Magnetic Curses]

The 3 veterans have been better than you're implying, and adding 1 starter this offseason(CJ Wilson is a popular FA name) would put the rotation on pretty decent footing. Adding a reclamation project(what's Brandon Webb doing these days?) for depth wouldn't be the worst idea either.

 

webb is having rotator cuff surgery on august 1st. he's done.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Options:

 

- Chase CJ Wilson, hopefully land him. The guy's turned himself into one of the best pitchers in baseball.

 

- Make a trade. Not sure who's available for that. Maybe dangle Wells out there, though I'm sure trading cheap pitching isn't something they're looking to do.

 

- Buy alot of scrap heap/reclamation level talent. This is probably necessary anyway.

 

I do think a season with a healthier Cashner will help. It'd be helpful if McNutt gave more reason to buy the hype. I believe we'll see more improvement from Garza, and then from there unless they trade one of Z/Dempster I hope they step their game up a little if they bring in a big bat and w/e other reinforcements the FO adds.

[scarey]

Has anyone seen the list of free agent starters coming in the 2012/2013 off season? I'd be fine with standing pat and seeing if Dempster and Zambrano have one last good year in them in 2012. With the money coming off the books after the season, the Cubs can sign a true ace as well as maybe a mid rotation starter. Fairly young ones at that.

 

Matt Cain

John Danks

Francisco Liriano

Zack Grienke

Cole Hamels

Anibal Sanchez

Johnathan Sanchez

Jered Weaver

Shaun Marcum

 

Not all of these guys will necessarily be there by the time next season is over, but I'd be fine with getting a crack at half of that list.

[Sammy Sofa]

Why pass on someone like Wilson? Sign him after this year and then use the money freed up by Demp and Z after 2012 to snag at least one of the guys on that list (plus Kemp. ALWAYS KEMP).

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Why pass on someone like Wilson? Sign him after this year and then use the money freed up by Demp and Z after 2012 to snag at least one of the guys on that list (plus Kemp. ALWAYS KEMP).

 

Yeah, Wilson's going to be a really good buy for someone, and I think he'd thrive in the NL. He's pitching like an ace.

 

Kemp would be a catch, there's part of me believes that he's a COF about to be paid franchise CF money. Maybe I underrate his D out there in CF, but he's never been a particularly good defensive player. The young OF I hope hits the market is Justin Upton. He was supposedly dangled out there last year, and this offseason the D'Backs might lose their MIF and desperately need some pitching help. Wishful thinking, but hey...

 

Cole Hamels gets my vote amongst the 2013 guys. I think he's going to be nasty in his 30's. Not that he isn't nasty now, just that he's getting better.

Edited July 25, 2011 by KingKongvs.Godzilla

[TruffleShuffle]

the part that scares me about kemp is that he seemed pretty disinterested last year, was lousy defensively, mediocre offensively, and overall just not a particularly good player, let alone a franchise-type guy. now this year he's been terrific, his K rate is down and his BB rate up (have to wonder if the latter is due to growth as a hitter or being surrounded by terrible hitters though), and his defense has probably been better. was last year just a fluke? has he refocused more on baseball with a potentially big payday not far down the road? would that focus continue after he signs a big free agent contract? fortunately there's at least another year to see how he does.

[KingCubsFan]

I'm a Cashner fan, but you can't really count on him to do anything for the rotation next year. Anything he can contribute should be seen as a bonus. He'll have likely thrown a grand total of 6 innings in 2011, and not that many in 2010 either. If the Cubs still see him as a starter long-term, we're better off having him pitch most of the year in AAA and limiting his innings.

[CubsInNC]

I'm a Cashner fan, but you can't really count on him to do anything for the rotation next year. Anything he can contribute should be seen as a bonus. He'll have likely thrown a grand total of 6 innings in 2011, and not that many in 2010 either. If the Cubs still see him as a starter long-term, we're better off having him pitch most of the year in AAA and limiting his innings.

 

While I think he'll get some work in still this calendar year, I agree about not counting on him as a member of the ML rotation next year. But I'm not opposed to having him be the #6/7 option (prefer #7).

[dew1679666265]

I'm a Cashner fan, but you can't really count on him to do anything for the rotation next year. Anything he can contribute should be seen as a bonus. He'll have likely thrown a grand total of 6 innings in 2011, and not that many in 2010 either. If the Cubs still see him as a starter long-term, we're better off having him pitch most of the year in AAA and limiting his innings.

 

While I think he'll get some work in still this calendar year, I agree about not counting on him as a member of the ML rotation next year. But I'm not opposed to having him be the #6/7 option (prefer #7).

 

That's what I'm thinking. Start him in AAA with McNutt and Jay Jackson and make him the seventh rotation option behind McNutt (and behind JJax if he rebounds in the second half of this year).

[Cubswin11]

the part that scares me about kemp is that he seemed pretty disinterested last year, was lousy defensively, mediocre offensively, and overall just not a particularly good player, let alone a franchise-type guy. now this year he's been terrific, his K rate is down and his BB rate up (have to wonder if the latter is due to growth as a hitter or being surrounded by terrible hitters though), and his defense has probably been better. was last year just a fluke? has he refocused more on baseball with a potentially big payday not far down the road? would that focus continue after he signs a big free agent contract? fortunately there's at least another year to see how he does.

I think Kemp is a tremendous player and would happy to have him. I have the same thoughts/concerns on him as you lay out here. If we were to target a Dodgers OF I would almost prefer Ethier, he'd probably come a little cheaper (either in a trade or when he hits FA) and has had some very good years and would be a nice 3-4-5 hitter in the lineup.

[Sammy Sofa]

I wouldn't be opposed to signing Ethier, but part of the reason I prefer Kemp is that he's younger. He'd be, what, 28 if he started the 2013 season with the Cubs? I think Ethier would be 31.

 

Kemp's defense isn't something to ignore, and ultimately I'd prefer him to end up in LF.

[Exile on Waveland]

Yeah, the Ethier option intrigues me, and I've almost been leaning towards targeting Ethier if Fielder/Pujols are signed this offseason. I must admit I didn't realize there was a three-year age difference, however. Ethier will surely come much cheaper, doesn't require payment for "centerfield" (which the Cubs might not even need with Jackson and/or Kemp could be moved to a corner anyway), is left-handed (which while not everything, is not nothing), and maybe seems a bit more consistent/reliable (though he'll never fly as high as Kemp can). Kemp is clearly a superior player; but I must wonder if Ethier could be had a lot closer to his relative worth.

[Cubs Fan Dan]

I would be willing to talk to Oakland about Geo Gonzalez, there has been speculation in the past he may be trade bait. Probably a Garza"like" package but if the Cubs draft and international scouting of late gives you an idea of upcoming talent he may be worth it.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Yeah, the Ethier option intrigues me, and I've almost been leaning towards targeting Ethier if Fielder/Pujols are signed this offseason. I must admit I didn't realize there was a three-year age difference, however. Ethier will surely come much cheaper, doesn't require payment for "centerfield" (which the Cubs might not even need with Jackson and/or Kemp could be moved to a corner anyway), is left-handed (which while not everything, is not nothing), and maybe seems a bit more consistent/reliable (though he'll never fly as high as Kemp can). Kemp is clearly a superior player; but I must wonder if Ethier could be had a lot closer to his relative worth.

 

I think Ethier might be the better buy just because he's not tricking anyone into believing he's a CF.

 

I know I sound kind of crazy for saying this, but if I was to go after a young maybe available player currently playing CF it'd be BJ Upton. I think Upton can basically be Mike Cameron 2.0 with sick D and solid offense with good power in CF.

 

I like Rasmus, but like Kemp I feel like there just might be a chance that he's more COF than CF. For w/e reason I buy him as a CF moreso than Kemp. It might be because Rasmus came up as a CF all the way through.

[KingCubsFan]

Yeah, the Ethier option intrigues me, and I've almost been leaning towards targeting Ethier if Fielder/Pujols are signed this offseason. I must admit I didn't realize there was a three-year age difference, however. Ethier will surely come much cheaper, doesn't require payment for "centerfield" (which the Cubs might not even need with Jackson and/or Kemp could be moved to a corner anyway), is left-handed (which while not everything, is not nothing), and maybe seems a bit more consistent/reliable (though he'll never fly as high as Kemp can). Kemp is clearly a superior player; but I must wonder if Ethier could be had a lot closer to his relative worth.

 

I think Ethier might be the better buy just because he's not tricking anyone into believing he's a CF.

 

I know I sound kind of crazy for saying this, but if I was to go after a young maybe available player currently playing CF it'd be BJ Upton. I think Upton can basically be Mike Cameron 2.0 with sick D and solid offense with good power in CF.

 

I like Rasmus, but like Kemp I feel like there just might be a chance that he's more COF than CF. For w/e reason I buy him as a CF moreso than Kemp. It might be because Rasmus came up as a CF all the way through.

If you're targeting BJ Upton, you may as well just stick with Brett Jackson.

[dew1679666265]

If you're targeting BJ Upton, you may as well just stick with Brett Jackson.

 

In 2007 and 2008, Upton was worth 4.5 and 5.0 WAR. He dropped back to 2.3 in 2009, but was back up to 3.9 last year and has been worth 1.6 so far this year. He's a much better player than we can expect Jackson to be early on in his career.

 

I'd prefer Kemp, but Upton would be a really interesting target. The problem is both he and Jackson are probably best suited to be CFs, so one would likely be playing out of position.

[scarey]

Why pass on someone like Wilson? Sign him after this year and then use the money freed up by Demp and Z after 2012 to snag at least one of the guys on that list (plus Kemp. ALWAYS KEMP).

 

I guess I find it hard to believe the Cubs could bring in a first baseman and a top of the rotation pitcher.

 

I am a bit worried Wilson could regress too. Not worried enough to the point I would complain if signed to a Dempster-esque contract ($52M/4 years), but worried enough to not want him signed to a Zambrano type contract($91.5M/5 years). Plus, he'll be 31 at the end of the season. I guess it depends on how much attention he draws in the off season.