What is Ricketts Wating For?

[dew1679666265]

The Buck Coats for Marcos Mateo deal was a pretty good one. Mateo is 2 years younger than Coats and while neither has been worth many wins (.1 for Mateo, .2 for Coats), Coats hasn't seen the majors since 2008 while Mateo is looking like a decent, cheap middle reliever.

 

The Harden deal was a very good trade as well. We didn't get the fantastically dominant Harden for an extended period like we had hoped, but Harden was worth 4 WAR as a Cub alone, while the players the Cubs gave up have combined for a -1.1 WAR.

 

The DLee and Gorzo trades have yet to be determined prospects who may be helpful down the line. Neither major leaguer the Cubs gave up have done much of anything since leaving Chicago.

[CubColtPacer]

The Buck Coats for Marcos Mateo deal was a pretty good one. Mateo is 2 years younger than Coats and while neither has been worth many wins (.1 for Mateo, .2 for Coats), Coats hasn't seen the majors since 2008 while Mateo is looking like a decent, cheap middle reliever.

 

The Harden deal was a very good trade as well. We didn't get the fantastically dominant Harden for an extended period like we had hoped, but Harden was worth 4 WAR as a Cub alone, while the players the Cubs gave up have combined for a -1.1 WAR.

 

The DLee and Gorzo trades have yet to be determined prospects who may be helpful down the line. Neither major leaguer the Cubs gave up have done much of anything since leaving Chicago.

 

Yeah. All those trades were examples of little talent received, and even less talent given up. I'd consider Hendry the winner cumulatively of those trades, but it's mostly been shuffling of spare parts.

[XZero771679666304]

The Buck Coats for Marcos Mateo deal was a pretty good one. Mateo is 2 years younger than Coats and while neither has been worth many wins (.1 for Mateo, .2 for Coats), Coats hasn't seen the majors since 2008 while Mateo is looking like a decent, cheap middle reliever.

 

The Harden deal was a very good trade as well. We didn't get the fantastically dominant Harden for an extended period like we had hoped, but Harden was worth 4 WAR as a Cub alone, while the players the Cubs gave up have combined for a -1.1 WAR.

 

The DLee and Gorzo trades have yet to be determined prospects who may be helpful down the line. Neither major leaguer the Cubs gave up have done much of anything since leaving Chicago.

 

Yeah. All those trades were examples of little talent received, and even less talent given up. I'd consider Hendry the winner cumulatively of those trades, but it's mostly been shuffling of spare parts.

 

I don't see how we can expect more than that this year, regardless. And while none of those deals blows you away, none of them makes you cringe, or say you really wish he hadn't done it, either. I'd take my chances with Jimbo over Randy Bush.

 

Citing that list as evidence he doesn't have any idea what he's doing is a bit of a stretch.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The Buck Coats for Marcos Mateo deal was a pretty good one. Mateo is 2 years younger than Coats and while neither has been worth many wins (.1 for Mateo, .2 for Coats), Coats hasn't seen the majors since 2008 while Mateo is looking like a decent, cheap middle reliever.

 

The Harden deal was a very good trade as well. We didn't get the fantastically dominant Harden for an extended period like we had hoped, but Harden was worth 4 WAR as a Cub alone, while the players the Cubs gave up have combined for a -1.1 WAR.

 

The DLee and Gorzo trades have yet to be determined prospects who may be helpful down the line. Neither major leaguer the Cubs gave up have done much of anything since leaving Chicago.

 

Yeah. All those trades were examples of little talent received, and even less talent given up. I'd consider Hendry the winner cumulatively of those trades, but it's mostly been shuffling of spare parts.

You really think Harden was "little talent" or "spare parts"?

[Men in Blue]

Citing that list as evidence he doesn't have any idea what he's doing is a bit of a stretch.

 

I am a Hendry critic for certain. We are all judged by results, not effort. The problem with Hendry is too many of his deals have not worked. I think he has a reasonably good idea of what he is doing, he just is not getting the results.

 

As I said, we live in a society that does not care if you: 'tried". We live in a results only based society. Pure effort does not cut it anymore.

[Men in Blue]

And putting effort aside, he has given out some absolutely mind numbing contracts. He has spent poorly.

[SouthSideRyan]

And putting effort aside, he has given out some absolutely mind numbing contracts. He has spent poorly.

 

http://www.chadnicely.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/moremoney.jpg

[CubColtPacer]

And putting effort aside, he has given out some absolutely mind numbing contracts. He has spent poorly.

 

The Cubs have had two main problems: they haven't gotten enough from their farm system, and they've been afraid to spend the big bucks on impact players because they need to fill too many holes since they don't get enough from their farm system. The contracts they've given out haven't really been that bad overall (with 2-3 major exceptions), but the problem has always been that they've had to give out too many of them to the good to great but not elite type of players.

[CubColtPacer]

The Buck Coats for Marcos Mateo deal was a pretty good one. Mateo is 2 years younger than Coats and while neither has been worth many wins (.1 for Mateo, .2 for Coats), Coats hasn't seen the majors since 2008 while Mateo is looking like a decent, cheap middle reliever.

 

The Harden deal was a very good trade as well. We didn't get the fantastically dominant Harden for an extended period like we had hoped, but Harden was worth 4 WAR as a Cub alone, while the players the Cubs gave up have combined for a -1.1 WAR.

 

The DLee and Gorzo trades have yet to be determined prospects who may be helpful down the line. Neither major leaguer the Cubs gave up have done much of anything since leaving Chicago.

 

Yeah. All those trades were examples of little talent received, and even less talent given up. I'd consider Hendry the winner cumulatively of those trades, but it's mostly been shuffling of spare parts.

You really think Harden was "little talent" or "spare parts"?

 

Harden's the main exception, but even he only gave the Cubs a year and a half and his 2009 wasn't that great. He's a big reason why Hendry gets a win cumulatively though.

[XZero771679666304]

Citing that list as evidence he doesn't have any idea what he's doing is a bit of a stretch.

 

I am a Hendry critic for certain. We are all judged by results, not effort. The problem with Hendry is too many of his deals have not worked. I think he has a reasonably good idea of what he is doing, he just is not getting the results.

 

As I said, we live in a society that does not care if you: 'tried". We live in a results only based society. Pure effort does not cut it anymore.

 

Where did I say anything about effort?

 

His stupid FA spending is what has crippled this team, not that list of slightly positive, benign at worst deals. His trade record is very good, by and large. I want him gone, but there's no need to paint everything the guy has done as grossly incompetent.

[Men in Blue]

And putting effort aside, he has given out some absolutely mind numbing contracts. He has spent poorly.

 

http://www.chadnicely.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/moremoney.jpg

 

This is fantastic. Could not have done it better myself. =D>

[Men in Blue]

Citing that list as evidence he doesn't have any idea what he's doing is a bit of a stretch.

 

I am a Hendry critic for certain. We are all judged by results, not effort. The problem with Hendry is too many of his deals have not worked. I think he has a reasonably good idea of what he is doing, he just is not getting the results.

 

As I said, we live in a society that does not care if you: 'tried". We live in a results only based society. Pure effort does not cut it anymore.

 

Where did I say anything about effort?

 

His stupid FA spending is what has crippled this team, not that list of slightly positive, benign at worst deals. His trade record is very good, by and large. I want him gone, but there's no need to paint everything the guy has done as grossly incompetent.

 

No, I agree with you.

[Men in Blue]

And putting effort aside, he has given out some absolutely mind numbing contracts. He has spent poorly.

 

The Cubs have had two main problems: they haven't gotten enough from their farm system, and they've been afraid to spend the big bucks on impact players because they need to fill too many holes since they don't get enough from their farm system. The contracts they've given out haven't really been that bad overall (with 2-3 major exceptions), but the problem has always been that they've had to give out too many of them to the good to great but not elite type of players.

 

Which points the finger at Hendry and the lack of player development.

[jersey cubs fan]

Citing that list as evidence he doesn't have any idea what he's doing is a bit of a stretch.

 

I am a Hendry critic for certain. We are all judged by results, not effort. The problem with Hendry is too many of his deals have not worked. I think he has a reasonably good idea of what he is doing, he just is not getting the results.

 

As I said, we live in a society that does not care if you: 'tried". We live in a results only based society. Pure effort does not cut it anymore.

 

Where did I say anything about effort?

 

His stupid FA spending is what has crippled this team, not that list of slightly positive, benign at worst deals. His trade record is very good, by and large. I want him gone, but there's no need to paint everything the guy has done as grossly incompetent.

 

If his trade record was very good, this team would be better. Soriano is overpaid, but the thing that has crippled this franchise is not contracts, it's a lack of good baseball players. Hendry is in charge of acquiring those players, and he has done a poor job of doing it. You can't be very good at acquiring good baseball players and have a very bad baseball team.

[CubColtPacer]

And putting effort aside, he has given out some absolutely mind numbing contracts. He has spent poorly.

 

The Cubs have had two main problems: they haven't gotten enough from their farm system, and they've been afraid to spend the big bucks on impact players because they need to fill too many holes since they don't get enough from their farm system. The contracts they've given out haven't really been that bad overall (with 2-3 major exceptions), but the problem has always been that they've had to give out too many of them to the good to great but not elite type of players.

 

Which points the finger at Hendry and the lack of player development.

 

Probably scouting was even worse. The Cubs in the first half of the last decade had terrible draft after terrible draft. That meant very few players were available from the system in the second half of the decade. The Cubs are just starting to see some results from the better drafting/scouting over the second half of the decade, but it will still be several years until the results from the Ricketts increasing spending on the draft/internationally shows up. And yes, the horrible treatment the minor leagues was getting was Hendry's fault. I think it's been corrected at this point, but that was a huge mistake that set the Cubs way back.

[XZero771679666304]

 

If his trade record was very good, this team would be better. Soriano is overpaid, but the thing that has crippled this franchise is not contracts, it's a lack of good baseball players. Hendry is in charge of acquiring those players, and he has done a poor job of doing it. You can't be very good at acquiring good baseball players and have a very bad baseball team.

 

His trade record is good in terms of what he has given up versus his returns. He has an aversion to selling high, and that has hurt him. But overwhelming bulk of his failure is tied to his FA spending (not just big contracts, but too many Grabow-type deals and NTCs) and early neglect of the farm system.

 

And this particular argument is centered on whether or not he or an interim GM should be allowed to handle the deadline. I don't see any reason not let Jimbo do it, being that he rarely muffs a trade, and frankly there isn't a real impact deal to made, given what we have to offer.

 

Firing Hendry now would serve no other purpose but to placate rabid fans who just want to see heads roll. Delaying that until October isn't hurting the team.

[Benchwarmer]

 

And this particular argument is centered on whether or not he or an interim GM should be allowed to handle the deadline. I don't see any reason not let Jimbo do it, being that he rarely muffs a trade, and frankly there isn't a real impact deal to made, given what we have to offer.

 

Firing Hendry now would serve no other purpose but to placate rabid fans who just want to see heads roll. Delaying that until October isn't hurting the team.

 

No..that is not the proposition. It is that Ricketts has not made a decision and launched Hendry after a record of clear failure. Unless the guy Ricketts wants is currently now an employed GM only and he wants to come to the Cubs with a plan after the season is over, then maybe I can cut him some slack. But if we have to wait until October, go thru the interviewing process, wait for a decision, possibly then wait for a managerial decision..while the FA period is going on, etc.. then that is not acceptable.

 

I don't want an interim GM, I want the guy now who has a plan and is going to build the farm system and the team. To just have a seat warmer, a placeholder is wrong. But if Ricketts hasn't explored back channel talks about the top asst. GMs already, then he is not the forward thinking exec. everyone thought he was.

[Bull]

And putting effort aside, he has given out some absolutely mind numbing contracts. He has spent poorly.

 

The Cubs have had two main problems: they haven't gotten enough from their farm system, and they've been afraid to spend the big bucks on impact players because they need to fill too many holes since they don't get enough from their farm system. The contracts they've given out haven't really been that bad overall (with 2-3 major exceptions), but the problem has always been that they've had to give out too many of them to the good to great but not elite type of players.

 

Which points the finger at Hendry and the lack of player development.

 

Probably scouting was even worse. The Cubs in the first half of the last decade had terrible draft after terrible draft. That meant very few players were available from the system in the second half of the decade. The Cubs are just starting to see some results from the better drafting/scouting over the second half of the decade, but it will still be several years until the results from the Ricketts increasing spending on the draft/internationally shows up. And yes, the horrible treatment the minor leagues was getting was Hendry's fault. I think it's been corrected at this point, but that was a huge mistake that set the Cubs way back.

 

Would you mind to give us a little primer (not being sarcastic) on how bad drafts are anyone's fault and how the minors were mistreated. I was under the impression the baseball drafts were largely a crapshoot and that player development is how you emphasize the minors (though that is a bit of a crapshoot too).

[TruffleShuffle]

But if Ricketts hasn't explored back channel talks about the top asst. GMs already, then he is not the forward thinking exec. everyone thought he was.

 

well if he had explored those GMs and you knew about it, then they wouldn't exactly be "back channel talks" now would they?

[CubColtPacer]

And putting effort aside, he has given out some absolutely mind numbing contracts. He has spent poorly.

 

The Cubs have had two main problems: they haven't gotten enough from their farm system, and they've been afraid to spend the big bucks on impact players because they need to fill too many holes since they don't get enough from their farm system. The contracts they've given out haven't really been that bad overall (with 2-3 major exceptions), but the problem has always been that they've had to give out too many of them to the good to great but not elite type of players.

 

Which points the finger at Hendry and the lack of player development.

 

Probably scouting was even worse. The Cubs in the first half of the last decade had terrible draft after terrible draft. That meant very few players were available from the system in the second half of the decade. The Cubs are just starting to see some results from the better drafting/scouting over the second half of the decade, but it will still be several years until the results from the Ricketts increasing spending on the draft/internationally shows up. And yes, the horrible treatment the minor leagues was getting was Hendry's fault. I think it's been corrected at this point, but that was a huge mistake that set the Cubs way back.

 

Would you mind to give us a little primer (not being sarcastic) on how bad drafts are anyone's fault and how the minors were mistreated. I was under the impression the baseball drafts were largely a crapshoot and that player development is how you emphasize the minors (though that is a bit of a crapshoot too).

 

I'm easily not the most qualified person who can answer this question. But I'll give you a couple answers that are a bit simplistic. The draft can be a great deal of luck especially in the later rounds (although buying overslot guys help your chances). But you should be able to hit on a decent percentage of your first 3 rounds-those are the guys who should be well scouted, and while injury and projection can cause players to not turn out it's nothing like the lower rounds are.

 

The Cubs kept their player development director the same but replaced their scouting director in the middle of the decade. From 2002-2005, they had 15 top 3 round picks. 3 made the majors-two relievers (Petrick, Veal)D who had cups of coffee for one year, and Jake Fox. Many of the players did not even make it above A ball. From 2006-2009, they had 11 top 3 round picks. 5 have already made the majors (Colvin, Cashner, Donaldson, Carpenter, Lemahieu), 2 more are almost certainly going to (Jackson, Flaherty), 3 more have a decent chance (Vitters, Thomas, Kirk) and only 1 has busted so far (Shafer). The players are getting much farther in the system then they used to, and since it's basically the same player development people I'm assuming that scouting has a decent amount of importance.

 

I think scouting and drafting well are important. The reason I partially blame it on Hendry is that he was a former scouting director himself. He should have realized that some of these players were not particularly good risks to take.

[dew1679666265]

No..that is not the proposition. It is that Ricketts has not made a decision and launched Hendry after a record of clear failure. Unless the guy Ricketts wants is currently now an employed GM only and he wants to come to the Cubs with a plan after the season is over, then maybe I can cut him some slack. But if we have to wait until October, go thru the interviewing process, wait for a decision, possibly then wait for a managerial decision..while the FA period is going on, etc.. then that is not acceptable.

 

I don't want an interim GM, I want the guy now who has a plan and is going to build the farm system and the team. To just have a seat warmer, a placeholder is wrong. But if Ricketts hasn't explored back channel talks about the top asst. GMs already, then he is not the forward thinking exec. everyone thought he was.

 

Anyone who is currently under contract with a major league baseball franchise in any front office, managerial or coaching capacity can only be interviewed or hired by the Cubs if their current employer gives permission. That includes current GMs, assistant GMs, team presidents, managers, etc. Thus, if Hendry were fired tomorrow, there would be two options open to Tom Ricketts to fill the vacancy: promote an interim GM from within or hire someone not currently employed by a major league franchise in any capacity.

 

If we could drop Hendry and hire Rick Haun tomorrow, I'd be perfectly fine with that. But it cannot happen because the Sox would not give us permission to interview their top assistant certainly before the trade deadline, if not after. The almost certain outcome of a midseason Hendry firing would be a promotion to interim GM for Randy Bush because that's practically the only decision that could be made.

[XZero771679666304]

 

I don't want an interim GM, I want the guy now who has a plan and is going to build the farm system and the team. To just have a seat warmer, a placeholder is wrong. But if Ricketts hasn't explored back channel talks about the top asst. GMs already, then he is not the forward thinking exec. everyone thought he was.

 

Guess what? You're not getting that until October regardless of when Hendry is fired. All of the really attractive options are employed in some capacity, and their employers aren't just going to let Ricketts & Co. come in and woo them in the middle of the season, nor are they obligated to.

 

I suppose the Cubs could fire Hendry and hire some retired relic or unemployed buffoon just to appease people who just want to see something, anything happen, but that would be phenomenally stupid. You fire Hendry now, and you're getting an interim GM, it's as simple as that.

[Guest]

Anyone who is currently under contract with a major league baseball franchise in any front office, managerial or coaching capacity can only be interviewed or hired by the Cubs if their current employer gives permission. That includes current GMs, assistant GMs, team presidents, managers, etc. Thus, if Hendry were fired tomorrow, there would be two options open to Tom Ricketts to fill the vacancy: promote an interim GM from within or hire someone not currently employed by a major league franchise in any capacity.

 

If we could drop Hendry and hire Rick Haun tomorrow, I'd be perfectly fine with that. But it cannot happen because the Sox would not give us permission to interview their top assistant certainly before the trade deadline, if not after. The almost certain outcome of a midseason Hendry firing would be a promotion to interim GM for Randy Bush because that's practically the only decision that could be made.

How do you know any of what you wrote is true? I think Ricketts can talk to whomever he likes. Those guys aren't indentured servants. I also think that any good GM would give "permission" to his underling to go for a better job. It's a feather in the GM's cap. The question is whether he could keep it out of the media or whether he would want to "talk" to anyone while he currently has a guy in the position.

 

IF Ricketts intends to get rid of Hendry and he keeps him around until the end of the season, he's either stupid or lazy. I don't think he's either, so I think Hendry will keep his job; which sucks for us.

 

Why does everyone assume Randy Bush will run the team? Why not shitcan him too? Why not shitcan the lot of them?

[Soul]

 

I don't want an interim GM, I want the guy now who has a plan and is going to build the farm system and the team. To just have a seat warmer, a placeholder is wrong. But if Ricketts hasn't explored back channel talks about the top asst. GMs already, then he is not the forward thinking exec. everyone thought he was.

 

Guess what? You're not getting that until October regardless of when Hendry is fired. All of the really attractive options are employed in some capacity, and their employers aren't just going to let Ricketts & Co. come in and woo them in the middle of the season, nor are they obligated to.

 

I suppose the Cubs could fire Hendry and hire some retired relic or unemployed buffoon just to appease people who just want to see something, anything happen, but that would be phenomenally stupid. You fire Hendry now, and you're getting an interim GM, it's as simple as that.

 

Yep. The horror of the situation is, we're stuck. And that's it.

 

Denial. That's how I deal with it. God invented it so you could handle mental trauma like this. Use it.

 

We aren't a bad baseball team. The season may or may not have even started. Hendry isn't the GM. I can neither confirm nor deny Ricketts is the owner...

[Sammy Sofa]

Because the vast majority of the time the interim manager is someone from the current FO, so firing "the lot of them" in the middle of the season seems pretty dense unless they already a replacement FO lined up.

 

Explain how firing Hendry after this season means Ricketts is "stupid."