College Basketball 2011-2012

[SouthSideRyan]

The Illini typically don't get into foul trouble. Other than the Minny OT game where Leonard fouled out on the single worst play of the year, the highest # of fouls Illinois has been called for was 18. Today? 30. Nobody's saying Illinois should've shot more FTs. Just constant bailout calls kept Paul and Leonard on the bench for 10 minutes each.

 

Call me crazy, but I have to think the 27 shot FT difference was a major deciding factor in the game.

 

Call me crazy, but I have to think the 27 shot FT difference was caused, in large part, by 1 team going to the hoop aggressively and 1 team not at all.

Illinois made 12 layups, Indiana 14. Both made the same amount of threes. Illinois made 5 extra 2 point jumpers, and took 8 additional shots (9 threes, IU had one additional 2-point attempt than Illinois).

 

How many of Illinois layups were fastbreaks or off of lose balls? IU had 1 layup not in the half court. The Zeller dunk early in the 2nd half. At least 1/2 of Illinois were from fast breaks or lose balls.

 

lol, the straws, they're so close to me!

Edited February 10, 2012 by SouthSideRyan

[Exile on Waveland]

Some thoughts on the actual game:

 

1. The Leonard-Zeller matchup was interesting. I think Leonard has the second best pro potential, behind Anthony Davis, of any player I've seen in person this year (ahead of Sullinger and Zeller). He has great size and athleticism and is also quite skilled. He's definitely bigger/more athletic than Zeller. His ceiling is higher. However, I also think he has a lower floor. Zeller not only has a unique understanding of the game for a big man, but he is preternaturally cool/calm. Leonard is less mature -- everyone in the building could tell that he was just asking for a foul when he returned after his third (?) foul (pointless brag: I had excellent seats and saw it on his face). My guess is that this has both to do with Leonard's more difficult upbringing -- Zeller was especially blessed in that regard -- and, well, the victimhood coaching. I'm rooting for Leonard to put it all together and have a great NBA career -- starting next year.

 

2. Having watched IU the previous three years, I think I know something about players that aren't Big Ten caliber. Sam Maniscalco is not Big Ten caliber. The freshmen should play more.

 

3. Illinois played very poorly defensively. IU does not excel at penetrating into the lane, yet Hulls/Oladipo sliced into the lane almost at will. I'd be very upset about this if I was an Illinois fan.

 

4. Similarly, IU struggles keeping guards out of the lane. Yet, it seemed that Illinois eschewed penetrating -- this will inevitably lead to officiating complaints, I'm sure, but for Illinois, with its athleticism/size advatange to shoot twenty-one of fifty shots from 3-point range is difficult to understand. I expected Bertrand to play a bigger role as well.

 

5. The previous two points -- which had to be, at least somewhat, game-planning issues -- lead into this one. Illinois should not be below .500 in the league with their personnel. (I know illiniguy disagrees and thinks Illinois has the second most talent in the league, but I'd still take Michigan State's team over Illinois' team.) And they're below .500 despite being 2-0 against Ohio State/Michigan State. Look at their people then look at Purdue's/Northwestern's -- or, hell, Indiana's -- and it's hard to understand how Illinois is tied with them in the league. In sum, Illinois should extend Weber for at least ten years so he can get this thing figured out.

[SouthSideRyan]

And I agree with Sulley, those refs should commit Seppuku next time they take the floor.

[Magnetic Curses]

paul got to the rim when he wanted, but was pushed, hit, smacked, or thrown to the ground without any call. indiana had no one that could stay in front of him, so they fouled him, which should have sent him to the line several more times. didn't happen though.

 

check out when he gets pounded in the head on one of his drives and indiana got the ball out of bounds, that was agreat.

[SouthSideRyan]

When you have a stud like Victor Oladipo, he's going to get star calls. That's just the facts.

[Magnetic Curses]

there's no arguing with that

[Exile on Waveland]

Fine, irrational it is.

[illiniguy]

So, to summarize: Illini fans are crying about the officiating in a loss, while also hoping they lose every game so Weber gets fired

Yes because I'm all illinois fans. You are awful, so glad for your two cents.

[illiniguy]

When you have a stud like Victor Oladipo, he's going to get star calls. That's just the facts.

Reminds Tom Crean of DWade.

[Sosa21MVP]

I have to admit one thing, seeing Joe Buck in IU gear made me cringe. #-o

[SouthSideRyan]

At least it makes sense for him to wear those warmup pants. Edited February 10, 2012 by SouthSideRyan

[Derwood]

You are awful

 

not as awful as Illinois

[SouthSideRyan]

At least it makes sense for him to wear those warmup pants.

 

Because he's a clown.

Edited February 10, 2012 by SouthSideRyan

[illiniguy]

You are awful

 

not as awful as Illinois

Still no child molesters on our campus.

 

God bless Joe Paterno, I hope he's getting what he deserves.

[Derwood]

You are awful

 

not as awful as Illinois

Still no child molesters on our campus.

 

Bold statement

[illiniguy]

You are awful

 

not as awful as Illinois

Still no child molesters on our campus.

 

Bold statement

Shouldn't be. Sports aren't everything. But hey no damage was done to the program. We Are Penn State!

[Guest]

If you're going to childishly lash out like that, take it to that Illinois board you complain about. Or preferably, take a breath and knock it off.

[Magnetic Curses]

Fine, irrational it is.

 

what's irrational? as i've said, illinois made 12 layups and missed 10. raw made the claim that indiana had 7-8 missed layups, they made 14 of them, which would mean that they attempted 21-22, at best the same amount that illinois attempted.

 

this myth that indiana got to the basket an appreciable amount more than illinois is irrational, if anything.

[SouthSideRyan]

If they truly had a bias, they would've ejected Leonard and Paul before the game.

[Magnetic Curses]

remember when the ref tried to call the charge on meyers when elston was standing directly underneath the hoop? that was awesome.

[illiniguy]

remember when the ref tried to call the charge on meyers when elston was standing directly underneath the hoop? that was awesome.

In all honesty that's why you have to beat the bad teams that we've lost to. We do that and this game wouldn't have hurt. We knew the officials would be awful there.

[Exile on Waveland]

Fine, irrational it is.

 

what's irrational? as i've said, illinois made 12 layups and missed 10. raw made the claim that indiana had 7-8 missed layups, they made 14 of them, which would mean that they attempted 21-22, at best the same amount that illinois attempted.

 

this myth that indiana got to the basket an appreciable amount more than illinois is irrational, if anything.

 

This is a discussion point. Almost everything else posted here, excepting bukie, has been irrationality.

 

Regardless, those stats prove little. First, "layups" in play-by-plays and box scores aren't inherently drives to the basket (or even "lay-ups" by the common understanding). Often, the official scorer -- and I've received these every time out covering college basketball in my previous job -- counts any short jumpers as such because it's easier. Second, it may not be relevant for this game, but raw is correct that breakaway dunks are not equivalent to half-court drives when discussing fouls. Third, and, most importantly, the made/missed numbers may look the same, but that does not account for IU's drives that resulted in fouls. You can't harp on the fact that IU received a foul call every time they got close to the basket, then ignore those times they got close to the basket to prove that Illinois got close to the basket as often as IU.

 

Further, Illinois took fifty shots and twenty-one were 3-pointers (forty-two percent of their shots). IU took forty-two shots and only twelve were 3-pointers (twenty-nine percent of their shots). This certainly implies that IU was more aggressive going to the basket and not settling for jumpers (unless there was a rash of long 2-pointers from IU, which I don't recall).

 

Finally, you're addressing a poster that admitted last night that Illinois got homered a bit. Still, my last post was an attempt to steer away from the officiating because officiating discussions are almost inherently irrational.

[Magnetic Curses]

oh, i'm not that disappointed we lost, i understand that it's better for us in the long run if we do. but when i see obvious disregard for humility, pride, and the joy of sportsmanship, i can no longer remain seated, sir.

 

again, i call for the heads of the refs, to be presented at the new unmarked gravesite of joe paterno after he is exhumed and reburied. their wives and children and pets can be entombed alive with them, coins placed in their mouths to assure their passage to tartarus is paid for.

[CubColtPacer]

Fine, irrational it is.

 

what's irrational? as i've said, illinois made 12 layups and missed 10. raw made the claim that indiana had 7-8 missed layups, they made 14 of them, which would mean that they attempted 21-22, at best the same amount that illinois attempted.

 

this myth that indiana got to the basket an appreciable amount more than illinois is irrational, if anything.

 

This is a discussion point. Almost everything else posted here, excepting bukie, has been irrationality.

 

Regardless, those stats prove little. First, "layups" in play-by-plays and box scores aren't inherently drives to the basket (or even "lay-ups" by the common understanding). Often, the official scorer -- and I've received these every time out covering college basketball in my previous job -- counts any short jumpers as such because it's easier. Second, it may not be relevant for this game, but raw is correct that breakaway dunks are not equivalent to half-court drives when discussing fouls. Third, and, most importantly, the made/missed numbers may look the same, but that does not account for IU's drives that resulted in fouls. You can't harp on the fact that IU received a foul call every time they got close to the basket, then ignore those times they got close to the basket to prove that Illinois got close to the basket as often as IU.

 

Further, Illinois took fifty shots and twenty-one were 3-pointers (forty-two percent of their shots). IU took forty-two shots and only twelve were 3-pointers (twenty-nine percent of their shots). This certainly implies that IU was more aggressive going to the basket and not settling for jumpers (unless there was a rash of long 2-pointers from IU, which I don't recall).

 

Finally, you're addressing a poster that admitted last night that Illinois got homered a bit. Still, my last post was an attempt to steer away from the officiating because officiating discussions are almost inherently irrational.

 

If I counted right, the play by play has Illinois with 14 non-3 jumpers and IU with 6. But several shots from Leonard and 1 from Zeller are included in those numbers and I know those two didn't shoot that many jumpers (Zeller has only shot a couple true jumpers all year long), so you have to take those numbers with a grain of salt. IU definitely didn't shoot very many long 2's though.

[brinoch]

The Illini typically don't get into foul trouble. Other than the Minny OT game where Leonard fouled out on the single worst play of the year, the highest # of fouls Illinois has been called for was 18. Today? 30. Nobody's saying Illinois should've shot more FTs. Just constant bailout calls kept Paul and Leonard on the bench for 10 minutes each.

 

Call me crazy, but I have to think the 27 shot FT difference was a major deciding factor in the game.

 

Call me crazy, but I have to think the 27 shot FT difference was caused, in large part, by 1 team going to the hoop aggressively and 1 team not at all.

Illinois made 12 layups, Indiana 14. Both made the same amount of threes. Illinois made 5 extra 2 point jumpers, and took 8 additional shots (9 threes, IU had one additional 2-point attempt than Illinois).

 

And how many possessions were there when IU was fouled driving to the lane and didn't score the layup?