Spring Training - Final Week 3/21 - 3/29

[tfarks]

It certainly won't matter if DeWitt goes all Aaron Miles on us.

[Sammy Sofa]

You're working with a much, much smaller sample size with Ramirez; 140 PA in just two seasons over the last 3 years. Hill really, really, really sucks, but Ramirez likely would really suck himself the more playing time he gets in the majors. Again, your logic of "somewhat better = win" doesn't hold up when you're talking about the variance between two crappy backup catchers. If you're choosing between two crappy backup catchers I'd ultimately rather go with the one who knows most of the staff and apparently works well with them since, like you said, this the position where backups are typically used the most and they have a role that's arguably more important than what they do with the bat. I'm usually not a fan of those type of intangibles, but when it comes down to picking a backup catcher I'm going to lean towards the vet that knows and works well with the staff.

 

I have no idea what Ramirez would likely do. Yes he has a small sample size but he also has more potential. He could be serviceable with the bat and get on base at a good clip, Hill already proved he can't. I don't have any reason to believe he can't call a game or get to know the pitchers well. This just sounds like Lou speak to me, perceived value > value. Basically I'm more than willing to choose the question mark over the known crap.

 

Look, if Ramirez got the job I wouldn't lose any sleep over it at all; it's not like I'm a fan of Hill's. I just think the continual bemoaning of Hill's existence as already a tired, tired meme this season and we're not even to April, and it's translated now to people wanting Castillo rotting on the bench as the backup because it looks like he might actually be decent with the bat. Again, what needs to be separated is what the backup catcher is supposed to be and how Hill was misused last year. Hill or Ramirez for 20-30 games this season isn't likely to be that much of a difference offensively. Hill or Ramirez getting more starts because of a misguided platoon or Soto being injured is bad news either way. All we can do is hope that the Cubs call up Castillo if Soto goes down, because relegating him to the backup role in the meantime is not a smart move.

 

Yes fine, it is tiring. But its because Hill is so monumentally bad even a small change could be impactful if Ramirez hits. If he proved himself to be that monumentally bad I would want him out too because he does bring less intangibles than the savvy 3 fingered vet. But we would have given ourselves the chance to see if he can be better than that. If he blows it let Hill come back and be the CERA king. And conversely, I won't lose any sleep if Hill retains his job and is used properly. The constant black hole being played day after day still resonates so perhaps I am overstating.

 

How much of a chance are you really giving Ramirez if he's actually relegated to the backup role as he and Hill should be? If you want to get a better idea of what an unknown can do then they they need to be playing regularly, and Ramirez still has a lot to prove. The only way he's going to have a chance to have a serious impact on the Cubs' offense is if the backup catcher is getting way, way, way too much playing time, otherwise the backup catcher is going to be ideally relegated to too few PA for Ramirez over Hill to really make that much of a difference over the course of the season. If you've got a young player who has potential then why dump them in a role where you're ideally going to do your damndest to get as little regular playing time as possible?

[XZero771679666304]

Ramirez isn't being considered as a catcher.

 

Even at 40-45 starts, the likely difference in performance between Hill, Castillo, and Ramirez is small enough that I have a hard time mustering up a lot of rage over it.

 

So what is Ramirez being considered for? His bat won't play anywhere else, even as a backup.

[Sammy Sofa]

Ramirez has a decent minor league track record, and at the very least has shown the ability to get on base at every level.

 

Koyie Hill has a proven track record of being really bad. Unlike Ramirez, you can't even hope he'll get better.

 

What makes it more bizarre is that Hill re-signed after Ramirez was claimed and put on the 40-man. Ramirez is out of options, so WTH?

 

Not sure how you're expecting Ramirez to get all that better if he's only getting like 90 PA at best if things go as they should.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Sammy Sofa

[ctcf]

Cashner... Dude....

[CUBZ99]

Ramirez has a decent minor league track record, and at the very least has shown the ability to get on base at every level.

 

Koyie Hill has a proven track record of being really bad. Unlike Ramirez, you can't even hope he'll get better.

 

What makes it more bizarre is that Hill re-signed after Ramirez was claimed and put on the 40-man. Ramirez is out of options, so WTH?

 

Not sure how you're expecting Ramirez to get better if he's only getting like 90 PA at best if things go as they should.

 

Isn't the biggest knock on Ramirez his defense?

[tfarks]

How much of a chance are you really giving Ramirez if he's actually relegated to the backup role as he and Hill should be? If you want to get a better idea of what an unknown can do then they they need to be playing regularly, and Ramirez still has a lot to prove. The only way he's going to have a chance to have a serious impact on the Cubs' offense is if the backup catcher is getting way, way, way too much playing time, otherwise the backup catcher is going to be ideally relegated to too few PA for Ramirez over Hill to really make that much of a difference over the course of the season. If you've got a young player who has potential then why dump them in a role where you're ideally going to do your damndest to get as little regular playing time as possible?

 

Well its not an optimal situation for Ramirez sans he gets to be paid major league money. And the potential young player we care about will be in AAA.

 

Ramirez being the backup catcher isn't some sure-fire option, but it would be an easy choice for me. Its not like Hill is a defensive whiz, which would cause me to not take the chance of a possible offensive upgrade so callously.

[Guest]

Ramirez isn't being considered as a catcher.

 

Even at 40-45 starts, the likely difference in performance between Hill, Castillo, and Ramirez is small enough that I have a hard time mustering up a lot of rage over it.

 

So what is Ramirez being considered for? His bat won't play anywhere else, even as a backup.

 

He's a RH bat that could play at 1B, OF, or emergency catcher, but most importantly as a pinch hitter. Think RH John Mabry. If the team is comfortable with Byrd, Colvin, and Kosuke as CF options and therefore don't need Perez or Johnson as a 5th OF, that spot could go to Ramirez. As for his bat, he's struggled at higher levels so far, but his pedigree is too strong not to take a chance on. I'd personally consider him as a catcher, but I don't think there's any indication the Cubs have done that.

[Keener98]

Well, Cashner not having the outing I was hoping. And considering hes been facing nobodys since the 1st inning, thats not good.

[Sammy Sofa]

How much of a chance are you really giving Ramirez if he's actually relegated to the backup role as he and Hill should be? If you want to get a better idea of what an unknown can do then they they need to be playing regularly, and Ramirez still has a lot to prove. The only way he's going to have a chance to have a serious impact on the Cubs' offense is if the backup catcher is getting way, way, way too much playing time, otherwise the backup catcher is going to be ideally relegated to too few PA for Ramirez over Hill to really make that much of a difference over the course of the season. If you've got a young player who has potential then why dump them in a role where you're ideally going to do your damndest to get as little regular playing time as possible?

 

Well its not an optimal situation for Ramirez sans he gets to be paid major league money. And the potential young player we care about will be in AAA.

 

Ramirez being the backup catcher isn't some sure-fire option, but it would be an easy choice for me. Its not like Hill is a defensive whiz, which would cause me to not take the chance of a possible offensive upgrade so callously.

 

I'm more inclined to go TT's route and look at Ramirez as an all-around bench guy as opposed to just the backup catcher. It would seem that would be more appealing to you as well since it get Ramirez more PA than if he was banished to the backup catcher role.

 

And it's hardly the end of the world if the cared about young player is in AAA where he can get regular playing time.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Sammy Sofa

[XZero771679666304]

Ramirez has a decent minor league track record, and at the very least has shown the ability to get on base at every level.

 

Koyie Hill has a proven track record of being really bad. Unlike Ramirez, you can't even hope he'll get better.

 

What makes it more bizarre is that Hill re-signed after Ramirez was claimed and put on the 40-man. Ramirez is out of options, so WTH?

 

Not sure how you're expecting Ramirez to get all that better if he's only getting like 90 PA at best if things go as they should.

 

He doesn't have to. If he gets on base like he always has, you're already ahead of Hill. If he does get better, you've got a really good backup catcher.

 

And I'm assuming more than 90 AB until Soto makes it through a full season.

[Sammy Sofa]

Ramirez has a decent minor league track record, and at the very least has shown the ability to get on base at every level.

 

Koyie Hill has a proven track record of being really bad. Unlike Ramirez, you can't even hope he'll get better.

 

What makes it more bizarre is that Hill re-signed after Ramirez was claimed and put on the 40-man. Ramirez is out of options, so WTH?

 

Not sure how you're expecting Ramirez to get all that better if he's only getting like 90 PA at best if things go as they should.

 

He doesn't have to. If he gets on base like he always has, you're already ahead of Hill. If he does get better, you've to a really good backup catcher.

 

And I'm assuming more than 90 AB until Soto makes it through a full season.

 

2008 doesn't count?

 

You're really limiting Ramirez' future if he's just the backup. See TT's post for a better scenario if you truly think that Ramirez still can come anywhere near meeting his potential.

[Rob]

Quade referred to Castillo as a nice catching prospect in the pregame. I think if he were getting the backup catcher gig, Quade mightve said player instead of prospect.

 

And Mojo, stop pretending Hill is a typical backup catcher. He's bad even by that admittedly low standard.

[XZero771679666304]

Ramirez isn't being considered as a catcher.

 

Even at 40-45 starts, the likely difference in performance between Hill, Castillo, and Ramirez is small enough that I have a hard time mustering up a lot of rage over it.

 

So what is Ramirez being considered for? His bat won't play anywhere else, even as a backup.

 

He's a RH bat that could play at 1B, OF, or emergency catcher, but most importantly as a pinch hitter. Think RH John Mabry. If the team is comfortable with Byrd, Colvin, and Kosuke as CF options and therefore don't need Perez or Johnson as a 5th OF, that spot could go to Ramirez. As for his bat, he's struggled at higher levels so far, but his pedigree is too strong not to take a chance on. I'd personally consider him as a catcher, but I don't think there's any indication the Cubs have done that.

 

What do you think the odds are that neither Perez or Johnson make the team? And has Ramirez taken defensive reps anywhere but catcher this spring?

 

He has a good pedigree, but I've been operating under the assumption he'd have to make the team as a catcher. I can't really see him as an outfielder, though the backup 1B makes sense, if there's a roster spot open.

[tfarks]

I am not in favor of Hill owning a major league roster spot on the Cubs. I would risk Ramirez not reaching his potential with less at bats to stop it from happening.

 

You wouldn't hear me complain about him getting a bench role, since apparently he's not being considered as a catcher anyway. If he has a leg up to get that roster spot then its all the better for him.

Edited March 21, 2011 by tfarks

[XZero771679666304]

Did they just call the game?

[Sammy Sofa]

And Mojo, stop pretending Hill is a typical backup catcher. He's bad even by that admittedly low standard.

 

I didn't. I've stated numerous times he's really bad offensively even by backup catcher standards. The point is that is replacing him with anyone short of damn good player isn't going to make much of a difference in the limited PA a backup should get (ideally 70-90).

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Should is the key word. What most people feel is that with Geo's injury history, it might be a good idea to have a better backup because he's probably going to see more playing time than what you think he his.

[Sammy Sofa]

Should is the key word. What most people feel is that with Geo's injury history, it might be a good idea to have a better backup because he's probably going to see more playing time than what you think he his.

 

If Geo is injured then call up Castillo. This isn't complicated.

[pitchcs]

Is that Jacque Jones on MLBNetwork??

[Keener98]

Is that Jacque Jones on MLBNetwork??

 

yup

[davell]

I understand and agree with EVERYTHING Mojo has said here. With the small amount of games that are probably available for a true "backup" catcher, go ahead and use Hill. And yes, I also know HOW BAD he is. He's beyond awful. But, the pitchers seem to swear by him, so why not give them that? The games he starts will be few and far between anyway.

 

But, if there's an injury to Soto, you bring up Castillo and let him have a crack as a starter, still using Hill as a backup. It really appears as if the Cubs are treating Castillo as a potential starter, not a future Koyie Hill. So, why not give him another full season of at bats and calling games as well? To me, there's little reason to ruin a season of him getting valuable experience, just so he can sit for 130 games at the major league level, especially in a year where if things don't go close to perfectly, we're probably not even a playoff team as it is.

 

 

As for Cashner......I'm disappointed as hell. A good outing today and he probably could have claimed the 5th starter spot. But, he hasn't had a really solid outing yet this spring, to be honest. It's possible he wins the job by default, but I'm not going to be pissed at this point if he doesn't get it. Because he hasn't proven he can go deep enough into a game and when all the candidates have been bad or worse(no, I'm not thinking or wanting Silva to even have a shot), if Quade goes with someone who's at least proven he can go 6 innings at the major league level, I'm not going to hold it against him. He's got to try to win now, at least to some extent anyway. I'd still say Cashner is probably 50/50 on whether or not he makes the rotation, but it's totally because everyone has sucked and not because of anything positive he's really done. And I hate writing this entire paragraph. I guess I hope that if he doesn't get it, we send him to AAA and let him work on things there, but I think they'd probably put him in the pen, in all likelihood and maybe give him another shot at starting next spring possibly, before totally relegating him to the back end of the pen for his career.

[Sammy Sofa]

I understand and agree with EVERYTHING Mojo has said here. With the small amount of games that are probably available for a true "backup" catcher, go ahead and use Hill. And yes, I also know HOW BAD he is. He's beyond awful. But, the pitchers seem to swear by him, so why not give them that? The games he starts will be few and far between anyway.

 

But, if there's an injury to Soto, you bring up Castillo and let him have a crack as a starter, still using Hill as a backup. It really appears as if the Cubs are treating Castillo as a potential starter, not a future Koyie Hill. So, why not give him another full season of at bats and calling games as well? To me, there's little reason to ruin a season of him getting valuable experience, just so he can sit for 130 games at the major league level, especially in a year where if things don't go close to perfectly, we're probably not even a playoff team as it is.

 

Yeah, it's this catch-22 situation where, naturally, anyone would want someone better than Hill, but it's ultimately improvement for a roster spot where ideally the player is essentially just taking up space. Castillo is, hopefully, way too good to be a backup and Ramirez is indeed still young and has a lot of potential. I'd much rather see Ramirez in a situation like TT proposed than being dumped into the backup catcher role.

[pitchcs]

It just sucks seeing Hill come up in the 10th inning with runners on base when he's the only person left to use. I understand this happens all of about 4-5 times a year, but still annoying.

[Irrelevant Dude]

So what was the story on Cashner today? Was it a serious blow to his chances at making the rotation? I have my doubts that he can consistently make it through 5+ innings, but I'm not sure there are any better options.