Rangers and Josh Hamilton Agree to 2-year, $24 Mil Contract

[chopsx9]

Unfortunately it was the Red Sox that backed away because the Cubs wouldn't eat enough of the contract. The reporting has it pretty specifically that Theo said no to Kosuke. Later the Cubs apparently broached the subject again and were willing to eat more but it never went anywhere. No shortage on info if you Google it.

 

Yeah, no shortage of rumors that say little beyond suggesting the deal, including a good portion of them that point out how the trade makes no sense for the Cubs if they're tightening their belts money-wise. It makes even less sense when you and others try to claim the Cubs were willing to eat most of Kosuke's final year to take on two years and $20 million of Daisuke. Really, think about it for two seconds and try to figure out how likely it is that the Cubs would want to do something like that. You're placing WAY too much stock in a quickly squashed rumor to try and make your point.

 

I mean, in your scramble to point out how overpaid you think Fukudome is you honestly think that a team isn't going to unload a $20 million bust for a player they'd be on the hook for 1 year and probably only end up paying $8 or $9 million at the most, would likely OPS over .800, is a very valuable OBP asset and plays great defense. Again, think about it for 2 seconds. Either you think Fukudome is much, much worse than he actually is or the Red Sox are run by an idiot. Or maybe you're one of those people that like to make Hendry out to be some kind of a cartoonish buffoon. He's often very bad at his job, but why would he ever, ever, ever make a deal along the lines of those rumors?

 

 

Now who's spinning?? Who squashed what?

 

Every story has the Cubs approaching the Red Sox and the Red Sox saying "NO" The point was the Red Sox weren't interested not that anyone thought it was good trade but throw up more straw men.

 

But you know what....

You're absolutely right all the "multiple sources" are Fukudome haters. The entire story is a complete fabrication. I don't even thik Boston has a MLB team. I actually planted most of the stories myself. You got me. The world is flat and Fukudome will get a raise after next year.

[Sammy Sofa]

Unfortunately it was the Red Sox that backed away because the Cubs wouldn't eat enough of the contract. The reporting has it pretty specifically that Theo said no to Kosuke. Later the Cubs apparently broached the subject again and were willing to eat more but it never went anywhere. No shortage on info if you Google it.

 

Yeah, no shortage of rumors that say little beyond suggesting the deal, including a good portion of them that point out how the trade makes no sense for the Cubs if they're tightening their belts money-wise. It makes even less sense when you and others try to claim the Cubs were willing to eat most of Kosuke's final year to take on two years and $20 million of Daisuke. Really, think about it for two seconds and try to figure out how likely it is that the Cubs would want to do something like that. You're placing WAY too much stock in a quickly squashed rumor to try and make your point.

 

I mean, in your scramble to point out how overpaid you think Fukudome is you honestly think that a team isn't going to unload a $20 million bust for a player they'd be on the hook for 1 year and probably only end up paying $8 or $9 million at the most, would likely OPS over .800, is a very valuable OBP asset and plays great defense. Again, think about it for 2 seconds. Either you think Fukudome is much, much worse than he actually is or the Red Sox are run by an idiot. Or maybe you're one of those people that like to make Hendry out to be some kind of a cartoonish buffoon. He's often very bad at his job, but why would he ever, ever, ever make a deal along the lines of those rumors?

 

 

Now who's spinning?? Who squashed what?

 

Every story has the Cubs approaching the Red Sox and the Red Sox saying "NO" The point was the Red Sox weren't interested not that anyone thought it was good trade but throw up more straw men.

 

But you know what....

You're absolutely right all the "multiple sources" are Fukudome haters. The entire story is a complete fabrication. I don't even thik Boston has a MLB team. I actually planted most of the stories myself. You got me. The world is flat and Fukudome will get a raise after next year.

 

Oh my, you're just trapped under your mountain of ridiculous anti-logic.

 

You brought this up simply to back up the idea that he's "grossly overpaid." You even emphasized how the Cubs offered to pick up a chunk of his salary, too, just so you could then also emphasize how EVEN THEN THE RED SOX DIDN'T WANT HIM!!! Man, too bad that last point just has you spiraling off into an argument you didn't even intend to start. Basically you tripped yourself up. I mean, if you can explain why you think the Red Sox wouldn't want Fukudome even if the Cubs are picking up a few million and the Red Sox get to dump Daisuke's 2-year/$20 million contract, hey, feel free. Like I said, I'm getting a kick out of this.

 

Let's break it down:

 

You think Fukudome is grossly overpaid this final year of his contract.

 

You think this is effectively proven by a rumored trade of Kosuke for Daisuke falling through, nevermind that the latter IS actually grossly overpaid, and will be grossly overpaid for an extra year and almost twice as much money as the former.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Regardless, I cant imagine anyone rather having the undervalued Fukudome over Josh Hamilton. If nothing else, we could have kept him on as a 4th outfielder rather than signing the 58 year old Cliff Floyd. Hed have likely ultimately won the starting RF job, and we would have found that lefty power hitting outfielder weve been searching for since Sosa left. Fukudome and Bradley never would have happened, and there would have been an extra 20 mil or so in available payroll the past 3 years, and who knows what that could have become.

[SouthSideRyan]

Regardless, I cant imagine anyone rather having the undervalued Fukudome over Josh Hamilton. If nothing else, we could have kept him on as a 4th outfielder rather than signing the 58 year old Cliff Floyd. Hed have likely ultimately won the starting RF job, and we would have found that lefty power hitting outfielder weve been searching for since Sosa left. Fukudome and Bradley never would have happened, and there would have been an extra 20 mil or so in available payroll the past 3 years, and who knows what that could have become.

 

How much do you think Fukudome makes?

[Guest]

Fukudome was vastly overpaid in comparison to any other first year players coming to the big leagues and going through the farm system process and earning their place on a major league team through service time.

 

It's a gamble. You hope you are getting the next Ichiro instead of Kazuo Matsui when you make that big commitment. I think it's safe to say we hoped we got more than he has provided thus far, but at the same time has not been anywhere close to what Hamilton has provided or anywhere near the cost of Hamilton.

 

Although I really don't see the fairness of comparing Fukudome to Hamilton. At the time of that deal, no one could have predicted how either player would have played in the majors, and Hamilton (fresh off another rehab outing and nearly out of baseball entirely) was a way, way, way, way bigger gamble than a Japanese superstar.

 

As much as I dog Hendry for the moves he's made, I'd have called him absolutely crazy to put any stock into a dope fiend when the Cubs are only a few moves from being one of the best teams in the entire league.

 

If Cincinnati didn't get their hands on Hamilton (I seem to recall that someone in the Reds organization was friends with Hamilton at the time they worked out a trade with the Cubs) in the Rule 5 draft, I'm pretty convinced Hamilton never would have seen a major league baseball game without buying a ticket. The golden opportunity worked out for him. Good for him.

[illiniguy]

Fukudome was vastly overpaid in comparison to any other first year players coming to the big leagues and going through the farm system process and earning their place on a major league team through service time.

 

It's a gamble. You hope you are getting the next Ichiro instead of Kazuo Matsui when you make that big commitment. I think it's safe to say we hoped we got more than he has provided thus far, but at the same time has not been anywhere close to what Hamilton has provided or anywhere near the cost of Hamilton.

 

Although I really don't see the fairness of comparing Fukudome to Hamilton. At the time of that deal, no one could have predicted how either player would have played in the majors, and Hamilton (fresh off another rehab outing and nearly out of baseball entirely) was a way, way, way, way bigger gamble than a Japanese superstar.

 

As much as I dog Hendry for the moves he's made, I'd have called him absolutely crazy to put any stock into a dope fiend when the Cubs are only a few moves from being one of the best teams in the entire league.

 

If Cincinnati didn't get their hands on Hamilton (I seem to recall that someone in the Reds organization was friends with Hamilton at the time they worked out a trade with the Cubs) in the Rule 5 draft, I'm pretty convinced Hamilton never would have seen a major league baseball game without buying a ticket. The golden opportunity worked out for him. Good for him.

One of the Narron brothers I think.

[Guest]

One of the Narron brothers I think.

 

In 2001, Hamilton played in 27 games between A and AA. In 2002, he played in 56 games. He then missed 2003, 2004 and 2005 entirely. In 2006, he appeared in 15 games of A ball.

 

From 2001-2006, he didn't play in 100 games of minor league baseball and he was in love with the crystal meth!

[SweetZombieJesus]

Regardless, I cant imagine anyone rather having the undervalued Fukudome over Josh Hamilton. If nothing else, we could have kept him on as a 4th outfielder rather than signing the 58 year old Cliff Floyd. Hed have likely ultimately won the starting RF job, and we would have found that lefty power hitting outfielder weve been searching for since Sosa left. Fukudome and Bradley never would have happened, and there would have been an extra 20 mil or so in available payroll the past 3 years, and who knows what that could have become.

 

The cubs wouldn't have drafted Hamilton due to character concerns. The hamilton trade was the offseason of the bad guy purge.

[CubColtPacer]

Regardless, I cant imagine anyone rather having the undervalued Fukudome over Josh Hamilton. If nothing else, we could have kept him on as a 4th outfielder rather than signing the 58 year old Cliff Floyd. Hed have likely ultimately won the starting RF job, and we would have found that lefty power hitting outfielder weve been searching for since Sosa left. Fukudome and Bradley never would have happened, and there would have been an extra 20 mil or so in available payroll the past 3 years, and who knows what that could have become.

 

The cubs wouldn't have drafted Hamilton due to character concerns. The hamilton trade was the offseason of the bad guy purge.

 

No, it wasn't. The Hamilton trade was the Cubs spending splurge offseason. The main guy they got rid of that offseason was Pierre and that certainly wasn't because of character concerns.

[apete6]

Regardless, I cant imagine anyone rather having the undervalued Fukudome over Josh Hamilton. If nothing else, we could have kept him on as a 4th outfielder rather than signing the 58 year old Cliff Floyd. Hed have likely ultimately won the starting RF job, and we would have found that lefty power hitting outfielder weve been searching for since Sosa left. Fukudome and Bradley never would have happened, and there would have been an extra 20 mil or so in available payroll the past 3 years, and who knows what that could have become.

 

The cubs wouldn't have drafted Hamilton due to character concerns. The hamilton trade was the offseason of the bad guy purge.

 

And the same regime gave Milton Bradley $30 million guaranteed. Pick a lane, Hendry.

[imb]

this frigging thread reminded me that cliff floyd was a cub

[Little Slide Rooter]

I didnt suggest that The Cubs would have assumed that Hamilton would become what he did, just that they had seen the opportunity when he was available in the Rule 5 draft. When a former 1st overall pick becomes available for peanuts, and I believe that he was 22 or 23 at the time, and he could potentially fill a need that youve gone through crap like Jeromy Burnitz and Jacque Jones to fill, then theres no reason not to give the kid a look, personal problems or not. They could have invited him to spring training, and he likely would have made the club, again, instead of throwing a few mil at Cliff Floyd or Dayle Ward. Chances are that he would have spend most of 2007 as a 4th or 5th outfielder and left bat off the bench, but hopefully he would have then turned enough heads for a chance at a starting job.

[Sammy Sofa]

Just stop. How many times does this have to be poured over until you realize that wasn't going to happen? The Cubs weren't thinking of Hamilton until they were contacted by the Reds about him. You're glossing over what he actually was at the time by making it sound like they simply ignored a typical 1st round pick instead of a 1st round pick with a huge [expletive] ton of baggage who had basically been out of baseball completely for over two years. When the Reds came to the Cubs about him he had played 15 minor league games in three years.

[TruffleShuffle]

why don't we just think about if the cubs hadn't skipped over albert pujols with their first 12 or so picks in the 1999 draft? why this obsession with hamilton?

[Sammy Sofa]

why don't we just think about if the cubs hadn't skipped over albert pujols with their first 12 or so picks in the 1999 draft? why this obsession with hamilton?

 

It'll never end. It's like people think Hamilton was this hot commodity that the Cubs just whiffed on when basically nobody in baseball was even thinking about him seriously except for the Reds.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Just out f curiosity, what was the deal with the Reds anyway?

[Sammy Sofa]

Why were they interested in him? Who knows? Krivsky seemingly pulled his name out of a hat. Not only had Hamilton barely played any baseball in three years, what little he had played was totally unremarkable and he ended up needing surgery on his knee.

[CubColtPacer]

I didnt suggest that The Cubs would have assumed that Hamilton would become what he did, just that they had seen the opportunity when he was available in the Rule 5 draft. When a former 1st overall pick becomes available for peanuts, and I believe that he was 22 or 23 at the time, and he could potentially fill a need that youve gone through crap like Jeromy Burnitz and Jacque Jones to fill, then theres no reason not to give the kid a look, personal problems or not. They could have invited him to spring training, and he likely would have made the club, again, instead of throwing a few mil at Cliff Floyd or Dayle Ward. Chances are that he would have spend most of 2007 as a 4th or 5th outfielder and left bat off the bench, but hopefully he would have then turned enough heads for a chance at a starting job.

 

Hamilton was 25 at the time. He was a #1 pick who had barely played in several years. He was just a random name that had promise a long time ago. Matt Bush has the same profile now and nobody's beating down the door of TB to get him.

[Sammy Sofa]

Hamilton was 25 at the time. He was a #1 pick who had barely played in several years. He was just a random name that had promise a long time ago. Matt Bush has the same profile now and nobody's beating down the door of TB to get him.

 

Oh God, why haven't they learned their lesson?!? WE NEED MATT BUSH.

[Illini Iceman]

I didnt suggest that The Cubs would have assumed that Hamilton would become what he did, just that they had seen the opportunity when he was available in the Rule 5 draft. When a former 1st overall pick becomes available for peanuts, and I believe that he was 22 or 23 at the time, and he could potentially fill a need that youve gone through crap like Jeromy Burnitz and Jacque Jones to fill, then theres no reason not to give the kid a look, personal problems or not. They could have invited him to spring training, and he likely would have made the club, again, instead of throwing a few mil at Cliff Floyd or Dayle Ward. Chances are that he would have spend most of 2007 as a 4th or 5th outfielder and left bat off the bench, but hopefully he would have then turned enough heads for a chance at a starting job.

 

Hamilton was 25 at the time. He was a #1 pick who had barely played in several years. He was just a random name that had promise a long time ago. Matt Bush has the same profile now and nobody's beating down the door of TB to get him.

 

Keep in mind also that the only reason he was even available in the Rule 5 draft is that the Rays took him off their 40 man roster that offseason. They obviously knew his situation better than any other organization and had pretty much given up on him despite the tremendous amount of time, effort and money they had invested in him up to that point.

[imb]

Hamilton was 25 at the time. He was a #1 pick who had barely played in several years. He was just a random name that had promise a long time ago. Matt Bush has the same profile now and nobody's beating down the door of TB to get him.

 

Oh God, why haven't they learned their lesson?!? WE NEED MATT BUSH.

 

Last year in A ball, Bush gave up 7 hits, struck out 12 batters and walked just 2 in 8.1 innings

[Rob]

Just out f curiosity, what was the deal with the Reds anyway?

 

Before the Rule 5 draft, we agreed with the Reds to use our pick to grab a player they wanted and trade him to them for $100,000 (it costs $50k to pick somebody, so we really only net $50k). We had no idea who we would be picking for them until just before our pick.

 

And as has been stated numerous times, there was absolutely no reason to expect them (or anybody else) to draft Josh Hamilton. He had played 15 games at A ball in 2006 where he batted a mere .260/.327/.360. That was his first game action since 2002 on account of the drugs... which was a situation where he was likely to get banned from baseball anyways if he got caught with them again. Oh, and there's the nasty business of being a Rule 5 draftee anyways, which means he absolutely has to stay in the big leagues all season (even DL time has to be made up the next season before you can think about optioning a guy down).

 

For a hopeful playoff team to burn a bench spot (which is a very valuable commodity during a 162 game season) on a player with this huge of a risk factor would have been absurd, even with his upside.

[Sammy Sofa]

Hamilton was 25 at the time. He was a #1 pick who had barely played in several years. He was just a random name that had promise a long time ago. Matt Bush has the same profile now and nobody's beating down the door of TB to get him.

 

Oh God, why haven't they learned their lesson?!? WE NEED MATT BUSH.

 

Last year in A ball, Bush gave up 7 hits, struck out 12 batters and walked just 2 in 8.1 innings

 

IT'S HAPPENING ALL OVER AGAIN.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!

[TruffleShuffle]

You know, if we had just signed lincecum in 2003 when we drafted him in like the 90th round (when he was nowhere near what he is now and had no interest in signing a pro contract), our fortunes might have been very different!

[NCCubFan]

Fukudome was vastly overpaid in comparison to any other first year players coming to the big leagues and going through the farm system process and earning their place on a major league team through service time.

 

It's a gamble. You hope you are getting the next Ichiro instead of Kazuo Matsui when you make that big commitment. I think it's safe to say we hoped we got more than he has provided thus far, but at the same time has not been anywhere close to what Hamilton has provided or anywhere near the cost of Hamilton.

 

Although I really don't see the fairness of comparing Fukudome to Hamilton. At the time of that deal, no one could have predicted how either player would have played in the majors, and Hamilton (fresh off another rehab outing and nearly out of baseball entirely) was a way, way, way, way bigger gamble than a Japanese superstar.

 

As much as I dog Hendry for the moves he's made, I'd have called him absolutely crazy to put any stock into a dope fiend when the Cubs are only a few moves from being one of the best teams in the entire league.

 

If Cincinnati didn't get their hands on Hamilton (I seem to recall that someone in the Reds organization was friends with Hamilton at the time they worked out a trade with the Cubs) in the Rule 5 draft, I'm pretty convinced Hamilton never would have seen a major league baseball game without buying a ticket. The golden opportunity worked out for him. Good for him.

One of the Narron brothers I think.

Correct. Jerry Narron was manager of the Reds at the time. Hamilton knew the Narron family because they are from North Carolina, as is Hamilton. They were a large part of his support system when he was putting his life back together.