Pujols signs with Angels pg 151

[imb]

The DH is the worst thing to ever happen to baseball

 

really? i would think the whole "not letting black guys play for 60 years" was bit worse.

Hawk Harrelson

You might have an argument there.

I'm pretty passionate in my hatred for the DH it creates a dumbed down form of baseball that I truly loathe. Its really a topic for another thread.

 

Yeah, I really love that really smart brand of baseball where a pitcher flails at three breaking balls and walks back to the dugout, useless.

[Vinestal]

The DH is the worst thing to ever happen to baseball

 

really? i would think the whole "not letting black guys play for 60 years" was bit worse.

Hawk Harrelson

You might have an argument there.

I'm pretty passionate in my hatred for the DH it creates a dumbed down form of baseball that I truly loathe. Its really a topic for another thread.

 

Yeah, I really love that really smart brand of baseball where a pitcher flails at three breaking balls and walks back to the dugout, useless.

 

Yes, because no one else playing another position on the field ever flails at three breaking balls and walks back to the dugout useless right? Baseball is defined as 9 players, 9 players fielding a position and those 9 players batting. That is baseball. Why stop at the DH, we could remove the left and right fielders, no one wants to see some guy catch a lazy fly when it could be a double right? The DH was added to boost offense because its seen as more entertaining to watch more offense. I disagree with that, so I dislike the DH. You guys can call names and act like my position is [expletive] all you want. The game is more interesting and entertaining without the DH. Its an opinion you can certainly disagree with, there's probably no convincing you so this discussion is fairly pointless.

[Sammy Sofa]

Why stop at the DH, we could remove the left and right fielders, no one wants to see some guy catch a lazy fly when it could be a double right?

 

Completely horrible and inaccurate analogy.

[Guest]

I think the DH is awesome, but seriously, why are you guys trolling somebody for not liking something?

[Vinestal]

I think the DH is awesome, but seriously, why are you guys trolling somebody for not liking something?

Because that's the "in" thing to do here I guess. Kinda sad really. I guess people aren't allowed to express their opinion when it doesn't agree with what the larger majority of what the board thinks. I guess there aren't as many 'baseball purist" around these days which means in 20 years the game wont even resemble what it is today. We'll just be televising batting practice/homerun derby.

[Backtobanks]

Why stop at the DH, we could remove the left and right fielders, no one wants to see some guy catch a lazy fly when it could be a double right?

 

Completely horrible and inaccurate analogy.

 

A better analogy would be to have an offensive team that bats and a defensive team that fields and pitches.

[imb]

Why stop at the DH, we could remove the left and right fielders, no one wants to see some guy catch a lazy fly when it could be a double right?

 

Completely horrible and inaccurate analogy.

 

A better analogy would be to have an offensive team that bats and a defensive team that fields and pitches.

 

It's going to be really hard to convince me that wouldn't be an incredible thing to watch.

[imb]

I think the DH is awesome, but seriously, why are you guys trolling somebody for not liking something?

Because that's the "in" thing to do here I guess. Kinda sad really. I guess people aren't allowed to express their opinion when it doesn't agree with what the larger majority of what the board thinks. I guess there aren't as many 'baseball purist" around these days which means in 20 years the game wont even resemble what it is today. We'll just be televising batting practice/homerun derby.

 

the fact that your post wasn't deleted means that you are allowed to express your opinion.

[Vinestal]

I think the DH is awesome, but seriously, why are you guys trolling somebody for not liking something?

Because that's the "in" thing to do here I guess. Kinda sad really. I guess people aren't allowed to express their opinion when it doesn't agree with what the larger majority of what the board thinks. I guess there aren't as many 'baseball purist" around these days which means in 20 years the game wont even resemble what it is today. We'll just be televising batting practice/homerun derby.

 

the fact that your post wasn't deleted means that you are allowed to express your opinion.

Thank you for another insightful post.

[imb]

http://i.imgur.com/i6F7G.gif

[Sammy Sofa]

I think the DH is awesome, but seriously, why are you guys trolling somebody for not liking something?

Because that's the "in" thing to do here I guess. Kinda sad really. I guess people aren't allowed to express their opinion when it doesn't agree with what the larger majority of what the board thinks. I guess there aren't as many 'baseball purist" around these days which means in 20 years the game wont even resemble what it is today. We'll just be televising batting practice/homerun derby.

 

Nobody is preventing you from doing anything.

 

Are you opposed to the use of replay?

[Little Slide Rooter]

I think the DH is awesome, but seriously, why are you guys trolling somebody for not liking something?

Because that's the "in" thing to do here I guess. Kinda sad really. I guess people aren't allowed to express their opinion when it doesn't agree with what the larger majority of what the board thinks. I guess there aren't as many 'baseball purist" around these days which means in 20 years the game wont even resemble what it is today. We'll just be televising batting practice/homerun derby.

 

Nobody is preventing you from doing anything.

 

Are you opposed to the use of replay?

 

If we're going in that direction with this thread, IMHO it should be all or nothing. There are a lot of times when that missed call at 1st or called ball/strike can be as important as whether or not the home run ball was fair or foul. It should be like in football where each manager has a certain amount of calls.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

What I would do if I was Ricketts/Theo and I wanted to win next year without messing around with "the future" too much...Keep mind that the Cubs have no shot at losing their top 15 pick, which to me is a huge advantage going forward into FA:

 

Target #1: Albert Pujols

Cost: 8 years $225 million (2nd round draft pick - Noooo!)

Logic: I want the best player in the game. I have the resources to pay that best player in the game. I can make alot of money by getting the best player in the game on my team. Therefore, pay the man (note: I wrote 240 then knocked it down).

 

Target #2: CJ Wilson

Cost: 5 years $84 million

Logic: Has held up and then thrived as a SP in the AL and Texas. Really, I'd love for CC Sabathia to be here (5 years 140), but Wilson is a solid choice after him. Anyway, I think he can be anywhere from a 4.5-5.5 WAR pitcher for the majority of the contract (assuming health), and then I think he'll settle into a 3.5-4.5 range in the last year or two. Tough if that means anything, and one of the most well conditioned pitchers in the league (also if that means anything).

 

Trade: Brett Jackson, Darwin Barney, Dae-Eun Rhee, and Rafael Dolis to the Rays to CF BJ Upton and LHP Jake McGee

Logic: Much like the Granderson for Austin Jackson trade, the Cubs trade a top prospect for a proven CF entering his prime. Upton had huge expectations as the #2 overall pick in 2002, lived up to it for one season and then the '08 postseason where he ripped, and since then got hurt, sucked, got healthy again, and has settled into being merely a 4 WAR CF the past two seasons. The Rays get cheaper in CF, get a positive WAR replacement for Brignac (Barney's a likeable player, but his limited upside and the fact that here he's an all glove 2B rather than all glove SS makes him a prime trade candidate), and Dolis offers another power pen arm that can help soon. McGee offers a power lefty pen arm that's been a little slow to come along for the Rays. Rhee's getting alot of love after what's mostly an OK season a couple years removed from TJ.

 

Trade: Carlos Zambrano and Sean Marshall to the Yankees for AJ Burnett, RHP Brett Marshall, 2B/3B Corban Joseph, and 2B prospect Angelo Gumbs

Logic: Both pitchers have contracts that nobody likes and play for organizations that are probably a little sick of them. I think both of them have solid innings in them, and could use a change of scenery.

 

Tell LeMahieu to get ready to try out at 2B in the spring.

 

Iunno that's all I can think off...and even the Z trade I made up on the spot...Oh well...there's some of Sunday..there's still holes.

Edited October 23, 2011 by KingKongvs.Godzilla

[UMFan83]

I like that although I think that significantly changes the future.

 

Instead of LeMahieu, I would try to see if Kelly Johnson could somehow sign for 1 year and if so go with a Baker/Johnson platoon with LeMahieu as the utility guy. I dunno havent put a lot of thought into it but I like Kelly Johnson.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I like that although I think that significantly changes the future.

 

Instead of LeMahieu, I would try to see if Kelly Johnson could somehow sign for 1 year and if so go with a Baker/Johnson platoon with LeMahieu as the utility guy. I dunno havent put a lot of thought into it but I like Kelly Johnson.

 

I like Johnson too, and wouldn't mind him on a one year deal for the right price. Same for Aaron Hill actually, who I think offers a better glove than Johnson. Maybe even a little better overall as a player...

[rocket]

i'll take the dh any day over larussa double switching and going to the bullpen 33 times a game

[SouthSideRyan]

i'll take the dh any day over larussa double switching and going to the bullpen 33 times a game

 

It's not an either/or. I'd rather both be shot into the sun.

[Sammy Sofa]

i'll take the dh any day over larussa double switching and going to the bullpen 33 times a game

 

It's not an either/or. I'd rather both be shot into the sun.

 

Wait, are you SURE those aren't the only two options?

[dew1679666265]

Trade: Brett Jackson, Darwin Barney, Dae-Eun Rhee, and Rafael Dolis to the Rays to CF BJ Upton and LHP Jake McGee

Logic: Much like the Granderson for Austin Jackson trade, the Cubs trade a top prospect for a proven CF entering his prime. Upton had huge expectations as the #2 overall pick in 2002, lived up to it for one season and then the '08 postseason where he ripped, and since then got hurt, sucked, got healthy again, and has settled into being merely a 4 WAR CF the past two seasons. The Rays get cheaper in CF, get a positive WAR replacement for Brignac (Barney's a likeable player, but his limited upside and the fact that here he's an all glove 2B rather than all glove SS makes him a prime trade candidate), and Dolis offers another power pen arm that can help soon. McGee offers a power lefty pen arm that's been a little slow to come along for the Rays. Rhee's getting alot of love after what's mostly an OK season a couple years removed from TJ.

 

Trade: Carlos Zambrano and Sean Marshall to the Yankees for AJ Burnett, RHP Brett Marshall, 2B/3B Corban Joseph, and 2B prospect Angelo Gumbs

Logic: Both pitchers have contracts that nobody likes and play for organizations that are probably a little sick of them. I think both of them have solid innings in them, and could use a change of scenery.

 

I love your first two targets, though I tend to think bidding will boost Pujols up to 10 years instead of 8.

 

On the Upton trade, I'm concerned cost is going to bite us here. The great thing about Jackson is that he's cheap (and good, obviously) and we need cheap if we're going to have a shot at Pujols and Wilson this offseason. We'd probably be looking at $5+ million paid to him next year, meaning your scenario to this point has us adding $45-50 million (depending on how much you backload Pujols and CJ) while only shedding around $35 million or so. I really like Upton, but I wonder if his upside is greater enough than BJax to warrant giving up that much cheap talent when we're already adding two monster contracts.

 

As for Burnett, I want no part of him. He's signed through 2013, while Z is only signed through 2012 and the $1.5 million we'd save next year isn't worth adding a bad pitcher for an extra year (especially when he's older and worse than Z). Giving up one of the best relievers in the game isn't appealing either. I'll admit that I don't know anything about the Yankee prospects you listed, but I know their system is pretty weak.

[dew1679666265]

I like that although I think that significantly changes the future.

 

Instead of LeMahieu, I would try to see if Kelly Johnson could somehow sign for 1 year and if so go with a Baker/Johnson platoon with LeMahieu as the utility guy. I dunno havent put a lot of thought into it but I like Kelly Johnson.

 

I don't really like Johnson that much. He was a 5.9 WAR guy in 2010, but other than that he's been between 2.2 and 3.6. That's not bad if you can get him cheap, but Barney was a 2.2 WAR player last year and has room to improve. Obviously you think a little more about Johnson if you deal Barney, but if LeMaheieu can give us a 1.5-2.0 WAR then there's a good chance he's not much worse than Johnson - and he's much cheaper. Also, with Barney and DJ you have upside (though not much with Barney), but Johnson is 30 years old so he probably is what he is at this point.

[TruffleShuffle]

I think the DH is awesome, but seriously, why are you guys trolling somebody for not liking something?

 

i "trolled" him because he said that the DH is the worst thing to ever happen to baseball.

[Guest]

I think the DH is awesome, but seriously, why are you guys trolling somebody for not liking something?

 

i "trolled" him because he said that the DH is the worst thing to ever happen to baseball.

Easy to respond to that in nicer ways, though.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I love your first two targets, though I tend to think bidding will boost Pujols up to 10 years instead of 8.

 

On the Upton trade, I'm concerned cost is going to bite us here. The great thing about Jackson is that he's cheap (and good, obviously) and we need cheap if we're going to have a shot at Pujols and Wilson this offseason. We'd probably be looking at $5+ million paid to him next year, meaning your scenario to this point has us adding $45-50 million (depending on how much you backload Pujols and CJ) while only shedding around $35 million or so. I really like Upton, but I wonder if his upside is greater enough than BJax to warrant giving up that much cheap talent when we're already adding two monster contracts.

 

As for Burnett, I want no part of him. He's signed through 2013, while Z is only signed through 2012 and the $1.5 million we'd save next year isn't worth adding a bad pitcher for an extra year (especially when he's older and worse than Z). Giving up one of the best relievers in the game isn't appealing either. I'll admit that I don't know anything about the Yankee prospects you listed, but I know their system is pretty weak.

 

1. He's better than Jackson, who is being assumed as good because he's a good prospect.

 

2. He's thrown up 20 WAR before 27. Outside of 2009 he's been between a 4-5 WAR player. We'd hoping Jackson gets there.

 

3. His power has been coming back since the shoulder injury, and he hit 23 with Tropicana as his home park in the 2011 run environment last year. His OPS on the road last year was almost .200 higher (a sweet .841).

 

4. He's one of the best defensive CFers in the league. He's also not a bad basestealer, and his baserunning in general is strong too.

 

Thanks for the input. I actually like that Upton trade a whole lot, and wouldn't worry too much about what was given up. To me, it's cool to think/know that teams don't mind giving us their good players for our spares because everyone benefits anyway. Feel free to crap on the Yankee one I made that half heartedly...

[Sammys Boombox]

 

Trade: Brett Jackson, Darwin Barney, Dae-Eun Rhee, and Rafael Dolis to the Rays to CF BJ Upton and LHP Jake McGee

Logic: Much like the Granderson for Austin Jackson trade, the Cubs trade a top prospect for a proven CF entering his prime. Upton had huge expectations as the #2 overall pick in 2002, lived up to it for one season and then the '08 postseason where he ripped, and since then got hurt, sucked, got healthy again, and has settled into being merely a 4 WAR CF the past two seasons. The Rays get cheaper in CF, get a positive WAR replacement for Brignac (Barney's a likeable player, but his limited upside and the fact that here he's an all glove 2B rather than all glove SS makes him a prime trade candidate), and Dolis offers another power pen arm that can help soon. McGee offers a power lefty pen arm that's been a little slow to come along for the Rays. Rhee's getting alot of love after what's mostly an OK season a couple years removed from TJ.

 

 

I like the idea of trading Barney this offseason if the Cubs can get anything of value in return.

[dew1679666265]

1. He's better than Jackson, who is being assumed as good because he's a good prospect.

 

2. He's thrown up 20 WAR before 27. Outside of 2009 he's been between a 4-5 WAR player. We'd hoping Jackson gets there.

 

3. His power has been coming back since the shoulder injury, and he hit 23 with Tropicana as his home park in the 2011 run environment last year. His OPS on the road last year was almost .200 higher (a sweet .841).

 

4. He's one of the best defensive CFers in the league. He's also not a bad basestealer, and his baserunning in general is strong too.

 

I wasn't trying to argue that BJax is/will be as good as Upton, just that I'm not sure the difference between the upside of the two players is great enough to give up all the cheap talent you listed and have to add the payroll. I really like Upton and would be all for targeting him, I'm just concerned that adding him, Pujols, and Wilson all together may be adding too much payroll and giving up too much cheap talent.

 

I guess it's less of a criticism of your trade proposal and more a hesitation to give up that much cheap talent when we're adding two monster contracts at the same time, if that makes any sense.