Pujols signs with Angels pg 151

[ctcf]

Quite curious as to the plan Theo and co have that doesn't include Pujols/Fielder

The Cubs have put offers for more AAV and less years out there. If Fielder and Pujols would rather more overall money for greater length, and there are teams out there willing to go that far, there's not a whole lot the Cubs can do about it except plan for other directions.

 

Hence my curiosity, lol

[Guest]

It's kinda good in a way, though, that so many people seem to think there's no way the Cubs will/should sign one of them. Perception like that is better for leverage than "If Theo doesn't get one of these guys, it's going to be very hard to put together any semblance of a good team anytime soon" (which is much closer to the truth)

[ctcf]

I wasn't trying to be snarky before. It's quite apparent that Hoystein and co didn't come into this thing deadest on signing any of the big names. I'm quite curious as to what they do want to do

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I wasn't trying to be snarky before. It's quite apparent that Hoystein and co didn't come into this thing deadest on signing any of the big names. I'm quite curious as to what they do want to do

 

Draft really well.

[Guest]

I wasn't trying to be snarky before. It's quite apparent that Hoystein and co didn't come into this thing deadest on signing any of the big names. I'm quite curious as to what they do want to do

 

Based on what? Twitter rumors?

 

 

Given how close they play their cards to the vest, how much do you expect to hear in terms of their true intents/plans?

Edited December 6, 2011 by David

[bukie]

Quite curious as to the plan Theo and co have that doesn't include Pujols/Fielder

The Cubs have put offers for more AAV and less years out there. If Fielder and Pujols would rather more overall money for greater length, and there are teams out there willing to go that far, there's not a whole lot the Cubs can do about it except plan for other directions.

 

Hence my curiosity, lol

I'd imagine they'll explore trade options. With all the hitting the Marlins are allegedly signing, their rotation could still use some serious help. Maybe they're a candidate for a Garza, Marmol or Zambrano, and the Cubs could land Morrison and some long-term high-end prospects in exchange.

[Guest]

I wasn't trying to be snarky before. It's quite apparent that Hoystein and co didn't come into this thing deadest on signing any of the big names. I'm quite curious as to what they do want to do

 

Draft really well.

 

And then get fired as they toil in the cellar while they wait for those drafts to produce a winning major league team.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I wasn't trying to be snarky before. It's quite apparent that Hoystein and co didn't come into this thing deadest on signing any of the big names. I'm quite curious as to what they do want to do

 

Draft really well.

 

And then get fired as they toil in the cellar while they wait for those drafts to produce a winning major league team.

 

You can't possibly think that's really going to happen.

 

Besides, even the bargain-basement DeJesus type signings should get this team to .500ish.

[ConstableRabbit]

Quite curious as to the plan Theo and co have that doesn't include Pujols/Fielder

The Cubs have put offers for more AAV and less years out there. If Fielder and Pujols would rather more overall money for greater length, and there are teams out there willing to go that far, there's not a whole lot the Cubs can do about it except plan for other directions.

 

Hence my curiosity, lol

I'd imagine they'll explore trade options. With all the hitting the Marlins are allegedly signing, their rotation could still use some serious help. Maybe they're a candidate for a Garza, Marmol or Zambrano, and the Cubs could land Morrison and some long-term high-end prospects in exchange.

Can someone explain the appeal of Morrison? I understand that he's young and cheap, but can't we do better than an 800 OPS from a corner OF spot? What's his ceiling?

[Guest]

I wasn't trying to be snarky before. It's quite apparent that Hoystein and co didn't come into this thing deadest on signing any of the big names. I'm quite curious as to what they do want to do

 

Draft really well.

 

And then get fired as they toil in the cellar while they wait for those drafts to produce a winning major league team.

 

You can't possibly think that's really going to happen.

 

Besides, even the bargain-basement DeJesus type signings should get this team to .500ish.

 

Which part? You think they'd be viewed as a successful front office if this team were even .500 for the next 5 years? How are you going to get any better than that without any significant signings while you wait for the farm system to get productive?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The part where Ricketts and Epstein have been preaching patience every day since the hire, then Ricketts turns around and fires Epstein for not signing any big-name free agents.

[Guest]

The part where Ricketts and Epstein have been preaching patience every day since the hire, then Ricketts turns around and fires Epstein for not signing any big-name free agents.

 

"Turns around and fires" is one way to put it when I'm talking about 5 years later. That's one hell of a slow "turn around."

 

I think 5 years is more than enough patience.

 

Unfortunately, it would take that long or more to actually put together a winning team based on good drafts.

Edited December 6, 2011 by David

[bukie]

Quite curious as to the plan Theo and co have that doesn't include Pujols/Fielder

The Cubs have put offers for more AAV and less years out there. If Fielder and Pujols would rather more overall money for greater length, and there are teams out there willing to go that far, there's not a whole lot the Cubs can do about it except plan for other directions.

 

Hence my curiosity, lol

I'd imagine they'll explore trade options. With all the hitting the Marlins are allegedly signing, their rotation could still use some serious help. Maybe they're a candidate for a Garza, Marmol or Zambrano, and the Cubs could land Morrison and some long-term high-end prospects in exchange.

Can someone explain the appeal of Morrison? I understand that he's young and cheap, but can't we do better than an 800 OPS from a corner OF spot? What's his ceiling?

He's just 23 and he's already hitting 25 HRs. He's not Mike Stanton, but he's undervalued by the Marlins' front office and can probably be procured for less value than he's actually worth because the Marlins don't like his attitude and twitter account.

 

EDIT: From Keith Law:

 

Analysis: Morrison hit .291/.395/.480 in full-season ball in the minors, including time recovering from a broken wrist, then put up a similar line with a little less power in 2010 in the majors.

 

He has very quick hands, so he can wait on the ball before committing, and generates big power with his lower half. He didn't hit for the same average in 2011, but had a foot injury early in the year that explains at least part of it, and being jerked around by ownership didn't help either, including a punitive demotion that triggered an ongoing grievance.

 

Morrison has outstanding plate discipline, plus power, and will play at least an average first base if he ever gets the chance. He's a future star, and if the Marlins are too concerned with showing him who's boss to notice, they should give him a chance to succeed somewhere else.

 

Heck, shoot for Hanley Ramirez while they're at it, too, see if you can get some kind of buy low deal coming off a down year, and put him at 3rd.

Edited December 6, 2011 by bukie

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The part where Ricketts and Epstein have been preaching patience every day since the hire, then Ricketts turns around and fires Epstein for not signing any big-name free agents.

 

I think 5 years is more than enough patience.

 

Unfortunately, it would take that long or more to actually put together a winning team based on good drafts.

 

I'm not asking you what you think. I'm asking you what you think Ricketts would do.

[treebird]

The part where Ricketts and Epstein have been preaching patience every day since the hire, then Ricketts turns around and fires Epstein for not signing any big-name free agents.

 

I think 5 years is more than enough patience.

 

Unfortunately, it would take that long or more to actually put together a winning team based on good drafts.

 

don't worry though, theo has a great track record of developing a great farm system without just throwing gobs of money at it

[Hairyducked Idiot]

don't worry though, theo has a great track record of developing a great farm system without just throwing gobs of money at it

 

Second only to his track record of signing elite free agents.

[Vinestal]

jcrasnick: @bobbypricetag I don't think #Cubs are as long-shotty for Prince as the #BlueJays are, but they would also prefer to do shorter deal

 

Good, that means they are smarter than most of the other people on these boards.

For someone who despises "these boards" as much as you appear to, you certainly can't help yourself commenting on it all the time.

I've never said I despise these boards, but I didn't think Hoyer/Epstien were going to sign Puljos or Fielder to contracts longer than 5 years. I've pretty much said as much several times and been ridiculed for it. Now it looks very likely we won't be signing either one of them, and it feels good to be right.

[minnesotacubsfan]

but but but but IWANTFIELDERRRRRRRRRRR

[Guest]

Can someone explain the appeal of Morrison? I understand that he's young and cheap, but can't we do better than an 800 OPS from a corner OF spot? What's his ceiling?

 

Do you know many 24 year olds with a 120 OPS+ in 800+ PA's?

[Banedon]

jcrasnick: @bobbypricetag I don't think #Cubs are as long-shotty for Prince as the #BlueJays are, but they would also prefer to do shorter deal

 

Good, that means they are smarter than most of the other people on these boards.

For someone who despises "these boards" as much as you appear to, you certainly can't help yourself commenting on it all the time.

I've never said I despise these boards, but I didn't think Hoyer/Epstien were going to sign Puljos or Fielder to contracts longer than 5 years. I've pretty much said as much several times and been ridiculed for it. Now it looks very likely we won't be signing either one of them, and it feels good to be right.

 

You said that the wouldn't sign them to longer than 5 years? Or that that they shouldn't? Cuz those are really vastly different things.

[XZero771679666304]

jcrasnick: @bobbypricetag I don't think #Cubs are as long-shotty for Prince as the #BlueJays are, but they would also prefer to do shorter deal

 

Good, that means they are smarter than most of the other people on these boards.

For someone who despises "these boards" as much as you appear to, you certainly can't help yourself commenting on it all the time.

I've never said I despise these boards, but I didn't think Hoyer/Epstien were going to sign Puljos or Fielder to contracts longer than 5 years. I've pretty much said as much several times and been ridiculed for it. Now it looks very likely we won't be signing either one of them, and it feels good to be right.

 

It's pretty presumptuous to say it doesn't appear we'll be signing Fielder. I for one am not buying Prince to Seattle for one second.

[Guest]

The part where Ricketts and Epstein have been preaching patience every day since the hire, then Ricketts turns around and fires Epstein for not signing any big-name free agents.

 

I think 5 years is more than enough patience.

 

Unfortunately, it would take that long or more to actually put together a winning team based on good drafts.

 

I'm not asking you what you think. I'm asking you what you think Ricketts would do.

 

 

Do you realize how long five years is? Do you really think their plan involves 5+ years to get to contention?

 

Hell, I thought you were kidding about building through the draft, hence my throwaway joke comment about them getting fired.

[pccubfan]

The part where Ricketts and Epstein have been preaching patience every day since the hire, then Ricketts turns around and fires Epstein for not signing any big-name free agents.

 

Patience is fine for the small market teams, because they have little choice. If the Cubs were loaded with high-end talent that was near major league ready or had a bevy of assets that could net that talent then fine. The Cubs have neither. They are going to have to live with overpaying a star or two in free agency.

[Guest]

jcrasnick: @bobbypricetag I don't think #Cubs are as long-shotty for Prince as the #BlueJays are, but they would also prefer to do shorter deal

 

Good, that means they are smarter than most of the other people on these boards.

For someone who despises "these boards" as much as you appear to, you certainly can't help yourself commenting on it all the time.

I've never said I despise these boards, but I didn't think Hoyer/Epstien were going to sign Puljos or Fielder to contracts longer than 5 years. I've pretty much said as much several times and been ridiculed for it. Now it looks very likely we won't be signing either one of them, and it feels good to be right.

 

 

It always looked very likely that they wouldn't. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't or didn't/don't want to.

 

This is like when people are like, "PFFFF, I TOLD YOU THE CUBS WOULD BLOW IT"

 

OH REALLY, YOU PREDICTED THAT THEY WEREN'T THE ONE TEAM OUT OF THIRTY THAT WOULD WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP? DAMN, THAT'S CLAIRVOYANT

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Do you realize how long five years is? Do you really think their plan involves 5+ years to get to contention?

 

Hell, I thought you were kidding about building through the draft, hence my throwaway joke comment about them getting fired.

 

I think they are serious when they say that their primary plan is to develop a long-term winner based on scouting and drafting.

 

If they don't get Fielder or Pujols at a price they are happy with, I think they are more than happy to see what they can do with the DeJesuses of the world for a few years.