Pujols signs with Angels pg 151

[NonProfitCow]

They'll have their tiny window before FA starts and my guess is they wanted to show Albert they're very serious about keeping him,

 

They had a funny way of showing it

No reason to offer him a record breaking deal until they have to.

[davearm2]

This DH talk is kinda silly to me.

 

I'd expect a team would float the idea of putting Pujols back in LF or perhaps even 3B before they tried to sell him on being a DH.

[illiniguy]

Sweet Jesus I would give my left arm to have Pujols be a Cub. Not for what he would do for us, sure that would be great, but more for the implosion it would cause in St. Louis.

 

 

Really? More for the implosion in St. Louis? What the hell?

Well, for starters we'd still mess it up even if we got Albert. It's what we do. Secondly all of my family is convinced no way that Albert would ever be a cub, I would love for it to happen to see all of their reactions.

[sneakypower]

just die already

[SouthSideRyan]

They'll have their tiny window before FA starts and my guess is they wanted to show Albert they're very serious about keeping him,

 

They had a funny way of showing it

No reason to offer him a record breaking deal until they have to.

 

There is reason to offer him a deal that isn't insulting

[davell]

They'll have their tiny window before FA starts and my guess is they wanted to show Albert they're very serious about keeping him,

 

They had a funny way of showing it

No reason to offer him a record breaking deal until they have to.

 

There is reason to offer him a deal that isn't insulting

 

 

And you know they didn't exactly how? Reports have been varied, to say the least. And all it may take to tell someone like Pujols(who's said repeatedly he wants to be there) is something like this: "Albert, as you well know, we're not a major market team. It's not that we don't expect to up our ante quite a bit, but we HAVE to protect ourselves as well. That's why our offer now is probably going to be quite different than it is after the season is over. If you were to get hurt, it could cripple our franchise and all we want to do is make sure you're healthy before we show you what you're worth. Not to mention it gives us more time to think of ways as to how we're going to continue to surround you with talent as well. We just gave Matt a longterm deal and everyone here knows you're the face of our franchise. Stay healthy, have a typical season and trust us, we'll show you the money you deserve. We want you here as much as you want to be here, this is just a different situation than anything we've ever been through, but we know we can come up to where everyone is happy in the end" Cards Management

[illiniguy]

just die already

are you talking to me?

[NonProfitCow]

They'll have their tiny window before FA starts and my guess is they wanted to show Albert they're very serious about keeping him,

 

They had a funny way of showing it

No reason to offer him a record breaking deal until they have to.

 

There is reason to offer him a deal that isn't insulting

200+ million dollars doesn't sound too insulting to me. And he doesn't sound too insulted by it either.

 

"It's part of negotiations with the Cardinals," Pujols said. "I have so much respect for this organization. They gave me the opportunity to play 11 years ago. No matter what went down yesterday because of the deadline, it doesn't mean I don't want to be a Cardinal."

 

"I'm not disappointed, man. It's negotiations and it happens," Pujols said. "Two sides didn't get together on an agreement. That's the way it goes. You can't get disappointed. You know why? Because I still have another chance after the season and maybe we'll get something done then."

 

"We're not going to talk about the contract through the media," he said. "Even if it gets to the offseason, we're not going to talk to the media. I know both sides well. There are no hard feelings."

 

"You guys don't have a clue. You guys are way off," said Pujols, who refused to elaborate on his negotiating goals.

 

"You hopefully get something done, but it didn't happen," he said. "But that doesn't mean I walk off and I'm not going to be a Cardinal."

[Rob]

I would think the Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and Angels would be the main bidders, though I wouldn't be surprised to see Kansas City make a serious run or even the National squeak in there.

i don't think Dodgers are in it, unless McCourt sells the team

 

Kansas City really doesn't make any sense and Nationals blew their load on Werth already

 

this is how i see it now, in order of likelihood:

Cards - Cubs - Yankees - Rangers - Angels - Red Sox - Marlins

 

No Blue Jays?

why would he go to Toronto, of all places, and how are they going to have the wherewithal to outspend everybody? they don't really make sense as a serious potential suitor

 

Well, they've supported a payroll as high as 97 million as recently as 2008 and only have 17 million on the books for 2012. Even after adding in Bautista's contract (once details come) and arbitration raises, they've got an absolute boatload of money to spend, a good young core that's quite cheap in Arencibia, Lind, Snyder, Escobar, Romero, Morrow, and Cecil... not to mention Aaron Hill, who is still pretty good. Don't let the .196 BABIP fool ya. Oh, and a pretty good farm system.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's gonna be hard as hell to compete. But this is the kind of move they need to make to do so, and they have the money.

[Guest]

Don't get me wrong, it's gonna be hard as hell to compete. But this is the kind of move they need to make to do so, and they have the money.

 

Seems like the exact opposite to me. You're telling me it's so difficult to find a no-field OF to put up a 2-3 WAR in his 30's for a mere 12 million per year? I can't agree.

 

EDIT: I'm a dolt, I thought I was in the Bautista extension thread.

[SouthSideRyan]

They'll have their tiny window before FA starts and my guess is they wanted to show Albert they're very serious about keeping him,

 

They had a funny way of showing it

No reason to offer him a record breaking deal until they have to.

 

There is reason to offer him a deal that isn't insulting

 

(Spin)

 

Sounds like a guy who has to play another season with the team he turned down.

[sneakypower]

just die already

are you talking to me?

whoever the mopey anus character was, sniveling "even if we get Pujols we'll still just screw it up somehow"

 

ugh

[NonProfitCow]

Sounds like a guy who has to play another season with the team he turned down.

Could be, but he doesn't really HAVE to play in STL this year. If he doesn't want to be in STL there was no reason for him to come out and say he would refuse to be traded.

 

The only thing that looks like spin to me is coming from people like you who are hoping that he feels disrespected and leaves.

[XZero771679666304]

 

Sounds like a guy who has to play another season with the team he turned down.

 

Yeah, this thing is going to free agency. The Cards aren't going to give him a huge deal. If they were, they wouldn't have lowballed him so hard, they would have made an offer in the same area code as what it might take.

 

That's what was so surprising. 200MM is a lot, but over 9 years for the best player in the game, it's an insult. If you figure he'll get at least 7 years, the Cards offer was probably at least 42MM short of where it needed to be (27MM AAV) to even be viable. That's no small difference, and it's telling.

 

If the Cards had offered him a contract with an AAV of 25M as a start (which is what I expected them to do), that would have greased the wheels. But an offer that low tells me the Cards can't or won't go where they need to go to get it done.

 

There's a lot of spin and rationalizing coming from Cardinal nation, and understandably so. There's a better than 50/50 chance that they are going to lose the best player in their franchise's history.

 

Albert is going to be the great citizen he has always been, with platitudes galore. But the chances of him playing his entire career with STL have taken a serious hit.

[XZero771679666304]

Sounds like a guy who has to play another season with the team he turned down.

Could be, but he doesn't really HAVE to play in STL this year. If he doesn't want to be in STL there was no reason for him to come out and say he would refuse to be traded.

 

The only thing that looks like spin to me is coming from people like you who are hoping that he feels disrespected and leaves.

 

He won't approve a trade because he really wants to stay, I have no doubt about that. He certainly hopes the Cards will make a more viable offer after the season.

 

But all his warm fuzzy love for St. Louis and TBFIB won't persuade him to sign a contract like the one he was offered. That was a serious lowball, and you can't deny it with a straight face.

[NonProfitCow]

If the Cards had offered him a contract with an AAV of 25M as a start (which is what I expected them to do), that would have greased the wheels. But an offer that low tells me the Cards can't or won't go where they need to go to get it done.

 

There's a lot of spin and rationalizing coming from Cardinal nation, and understandably so. There's a better than 50/50 chance that they are going to lose the best player in their franchise's history.

 

Albert is going to be the great citizen he has always been, with platitudes galore. But the chances of him playing his entire career with STL have taken a serious hit.

I think what it boils down to is that Pujols wasn't going to sign unless the Cards offered him something ridiculous. Knowing that, there wasn't much of a reason for the Cards to offer him something absurd. They can do that next winter when they actually know what the market is going to be for him.

[Backtobanks]

If the Cards had offered him a contract with an AAV of 25M as a start (which is what I expected them to do), that would have greased the wheels. But an offer that low tells me the Cards can't or won't go where they need to go to get it done.

 

There's a lot of spin and rationalizing coming from Cardinal nation, and understandably so. There's a better than 50/50 chance that they are going to lose the best player in their franchise's history.

 

Albert is going to be the great citizen he has always been, with platitudes galore. But the chances of him playing his entire career with STL have taken a serious hit.

I think what it boils down to is that Pujols wasn't going to sign unless the Cards offered him something ridiculous. Knowing that, there wasn't much of a reason for the Cards to offer him something absurd. They can do that next winter when they actually know what the market is going to be for him.

 

Everything that I've read makes it sound like the Cards can't afford "something ridiculous" next winter either.

[NonProfitCow]

He won't approve a trade because he really wants to stay, I have no doubt about that. He certainly hopes the Cards will make a more viable offer after the season.

 

But all his warm fuzzy love for St. Louis and TBFIB won't persuade him to sign a contract like the one he was offered. That was a serious lowball, and you can't deny it with a straight face.

I just wonder what the actual contract offer was. I don't buy for a second that the offer would have only made him the 10th highest player or whatever. And I'm sure the Cards did lowball him hoping for a hometown discount.

[NonProfitCow]

Everything that I've read makes it sound like the Cards can't afford "something ridiculous" next winter either.

What have you been reading? Of course they can afford him.

[XZero771679666304]

If the Cards had offered him a contract with an AAV of 25M as a start (which is what I expected them to do), that would have greased the wheels. But an offer that low tells me the Cards can't or won't go where they need to go to get it done.

 

There's a lot of spin and rationalizing coming from Cardinal nation, and understandably so. There's a better than 50/50 chance that they are going to lose the best player in their franchise's history.

 

Albert is going to be the great citizen he has always been, with platitudes galore. But the chances of him playing his entire career with STL have taken a serious hit.

I think what it boils down to is that Pujols wasn't going to sign unless the Cards offered him something ridiculous. Knowing that, there wasn't much of a reason for the Cards to offer him something absurd. They can do that next winter when they actually know what the market is going to be for him.

 

I don't doubt that. But their offer is still telling, because it wasn't even serious, let alone ridiculous. 27M isn't ridiculous, it's about what they should expect to pay him. And they are taking a big gamble that someone else won't offer him a huge deal, which is a grievous mistake.

 

Someone will (FTR, I hope it isn't us, at least not for that many years) give him a contract worth at least 30MM in AAV, you can book it. My money is on the Angels. They've struck out badly the past few offseasons, and I can totally see Arte Moreno backing up the truck for Albert. The Cubs will make a serious offer as well. You could see offers that aren't 10 years, but more in the vicinity of 6-7 years 30-34MM per. In the face of offers like that, accepting a contract with an annual value of less than 27-28MM per just won't be an option for him.

 

If I'm DeWitt and Mo, I make my best offer now. Unless you're prepared to let him go, betting you won't end up in a bidding war with clubs who have far more resources is just foolishness.

 

Bottom line is this: if he makes to free agency, Cards fans can likely kiss him goodbye.

 

And listen, as a Cubs fan, my fondest hope is that the Cards tie up 30MM+ a season in Pujols. It would severely impede your ability to field a championship caliber club for a long time. Your team is top heavy as it is, what do you think would happen if Albert is tying up a quarter of the payroll? DeWitt and Mozeliak aren't idiots, and almost surely are formulating contingencies for life after Albert.

[XZero771679666304]

Everything that I've read makes it sound like the Cards can't afford "something ridiculous" next winter either.

What have you been reading? Of course they can afford him.

 

Sure they can. But they can't afford to keep him and the team around him for long. You know that.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Could it be that The Cards bras know that they cant afford him and build a quality team around them, and they made these offers they knew he wouldnt take just to make it look like they're doing all they can for the "greatest fans on Earth"?

[TruffleShuffle]

Everything that I've read makes it sound like the Cards can't afford "something ridiculous" next winter either.

What have you been reading? Of course they can afford him.

 

Sure they can. But they can't afford to keep him and the team around him for long. You know that.

 

carpenter will turn 37 next year and his contract is up either this offseason or next one ($15M option for next year). lohse's terrible contract goes away after next year. wainwright is reasonably priced through 2013 (well he's slated to get $12M in 2013, but for a pitcher as good as he is, that's a bargain).

 

the real question to me is, do they raise their payroll up above $100m (which frankly is where it probably should be, given their popularity and attendance) or stay around $90m? it'll be awfully tough to have holliday and pujols taking up half their payroll, and if they plan to keep wainwright, that's something like $60-65m on three guys. just not doable with a $90m payroll.

 

and yeah, they're going to have to rely on bargain bin acquisitions throughout their pitching staff and lineup.

[XZero771679666304]

Everything that I've read makes it sound like the Cards can't afford "something ridiculous" next winter either.

What have you been reading? Of course they can afford him.

 

Sure they can. But they can't afford to keep him and the team around him for long. You know that.

 

carpenter will turn 37 next year and his contract is up either this offseason or next one ($15M option for next year). lohse's terrible contract goes away after next year. wainwright is reasonably priced through 2013 (well he's slated to get $12M in 2013, but for a pitcher as good as he is, that's a bargain).

 

the real question to me is, do they raise their payroll up above $100m (which frankly is where it probably should be, given their popularity and attendance) or stay around $90m? it'll be awfully tough to have holliday and pujols taking up half their payroll, and if they plan to keep wainwright, that's something like $60-65m on three guys. just not doable with a $90m payroll.

 

and yeah, they're going to have to rely on bargain bin acquisitions throughout their pitching staff and lineup.

 

 

And their farm is in bad shape, so stocking from within isn't happening soon, either. And if Carpenter goes, who do you replace him with? Either someone as expensive or not nearly as good. What about when Waino comes up for FA? He'll be after 20MM+ per year. And if Garcia and Rasmus keep performing, they will start making money in arby as well. If they don't perform, there are more holes that need to be filled.

 

It's not a good situation, and I'm not convinced they aren't better off letting Albert walk and reallocating that money.

[Guest]

And their farm is in bad shape, so stocking from within isn't happening soon, either. And if Carpenter goes, who do you replace him with? Either someone as expensive or not nearly as good. What about when Waino comes up for FA? He'll be after 20MM+ per year. And if Garcia and Rasmus keep performing, they will start making money in arby as well. If they don't perform, there are more holes that need to be filled.

 

It's not a good situation, and I'm not convinced they aren't better off letting Albert walk and reallocating that money.

 

That's basically how the Cardinals have been operating all along. They find diamonds in the rough and role players and go to the playoffs nearly every year. They can afford to pay Pujols and Holliday and get cheap help from guys like Freese and Rasmus, find more Ecksteins and other random no name guys like John Jay and fill in the holes.

 

But, Pujols is that difference making player that allows you to have lesser talents at multiple positions and still get away with it. The Cardinals can afford it and they'd be foolish to let Pujols walk. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they don't sign him, but until he's gone, I'm not going to put much stock in him leaving.