Pujols signs with Angels pg 151

[SouthSideRyan]

Yep, the Cardinals will just go out and find a diamond in the rough like Colby Rasmus

[XZero771679666304]

The Cardinals have succeeded over the past decade by surrounding Pujols with good players like Edmonds, Rolen, Holliday, Larry Walker, Renteria, Matt Morris, Mark Mulder, Glaus, etc., etc.

 

Much is made by ignoramuses about the Bo Harts and John Rodriguez-es, but the fact of the matter is that the Cards' front office has done a great job of keeping a core of good, solid MLB players. A big part of that is having their HOF centerpiece at bargain rates. They've been spoiled, but not by dumb luck or pixie dust.

 

This notion that they have gotten by with cobbling [expletive] together is just not true.

 

We've started to see the Cards become more top heavy, particularly last year, and nearly doubling Pujols' salary isn't going to help any.

[Guest]

Ignoramus?

 

They still have talented players now like the ones you listed. They had a similar payroll in 2005 as they had in 2010. You are right that the Bo Hart's and John Rodriguez's aren't the players that put them over the top each year. But, they always seem to find these guys that no one else would ever guess would contribute, yet they do.

 

They had Larry Walker one year. Matt Morris was only expensive for them for 2 years. Edgar Renteria was never paid big money by the Cardinals. Edmonds was big for them, much in the mold of a Matt Holliday. Rolen was big for them too.

 

This is a team that could easily bump their payroll up to 120m and absorb nearly all of the cost of Pujols contract while still retaining much of their other talents, like Wainwright and Garcia.

 

I hope the Cardinals let him walk and they fall on their faces. But if they wanted to afford him, they definitely could. America's greatest fans will help absorb the cost.

[XZero771679666304]

Ignoramus?

 

They still have talented players now like the ones you listed. They had a similar payroll in 2005 as they had in 2010. You are right that the Bo Hart's and John Rodriguez's aren't the players that put them over the top each year. But, they always seem to find these guys that no one else would ever guess would contribute, yet they do.

 

They had Larry Walker one year. Matt Morris was only expensive for them for 2 years. Edgar Renteria was never paid big money by the Cardinals. Edmonds was big for them, much in the mold of a Matt Holliday. Rolen was big for them too.

 

This is a team that could easily bump their payroll up to 120m and absorb nearly all of the cost of Pujols contract while still retaining much of their other talents, like Wainwright and Garcia.

 

I hope the Cardinals let him walk and they fall on their faces. But if they wanted to afford him, they definitely could. America's greatest fans will help absorb the cost.

 

Ignoramuses, plural. Not directed at anyone in particular.

 

And sure they could afford him, but what indication is there that they would? Half of their presser yesterday was telling everyone how they weren't a big market team and couldn't spend like one. It sounded like damage control with a hint of resignation. It was not what I expected.

 

Some opinion is that the money is there. There has been some angst over the payroll being stagnant after the new stadium being built. I figured they would bust out some of that money this spring, and that Albert re-signing was just a formality. But after that press conference and that offer, I don't think the money is coming, and I'm not alone in that opinion.

 

They could be using the old "let's lowball with the first offer so we really have jack it up later in a bidding war when a decent initial offer would have gotten the job done" strategy, but somehow I doubt it.

Edited February 18, 2011 by XZero77

[squally1313]

The Cardinals have succeeded over the past decade by surrounding Pujols with good players like Edmonds, Rolen, Holliday, Larry Walker, Renteria, Matt Morris, Mark Mulder, Glaus, etc., etc.

 

Much is made by ignoramuses about the Bo Harts and John Rodriguez-es, but the fact of the matter is that the Cards' front office has done a great job of keeping a core of good, solid MLB players. A big part of that is having their HOF centerpiece at bargain rates. They've been spoiled, but not by dumb luck or pixie dust.

 

This notion that they have gotten by with cobbling [expletive] together is just not true.

 

We've started to see the Cards become more top heavy, particularly last year, and nearly doubling Pujols' salary isn't going to help any.

 

Mark Mulder? Used to be a decent pitcher, yeah, but doesn't really fit in the group that you're describing.

[XZero771679666304]

The Cardinals have succeeded over the past decade by surrounding Pujols with good players like Edmonds, Rolen, Holliday, Larry Walker, Renteria, Matt Morris, Mark Mulder, Glaus, etc., etc.

 

Much is made by ignoramuses about the Bo Harts and John Rodriguez-es, but the fact of the matter is that the Cards' front office has done a great job of keeping a core of good, solid MLB players. A big part of that is having their HOF centerpiece at bargain rates. They've been spoiled, but not by dumb luck or pixie dust.

 

This notion that they have gotten by with cobbling [expletive] together is just not true.

 

We've started to see the Cards become more top heavy, particularly last year, and nearly doubling Pujols' salary isn't going to help any.

 

Mark Mulder? Used to be a decent pitcher, yeah, but doesn't really fit in the group that you're describing.

 

It's not the singular quality of particular players (though Edmonds and Rolen were really good with them), but the fact there has always been a pretty decent core of proven MLB guys on that team.

 

To hear some tell it, it's been Pujols and a bunch of scraps sprinkled in pixie dust.

 

Up to this point, they've never had their resources strained by having to pay a superstar a real superstar salary. I question their ability to maintain a good core group given that fact. We saw some of it last year.

[SouthSideRyan]

Shut up you idiots, trading away Chris Duncan in '09 was just the first in a series of moves that ends with Pujols re-signing.

[Guest]

He won't approve a trade because he really wants to stay, I have no doubt about that. He certainly hopes the Cards will make a more viable offer after the season.

 

But all his warm fuzzy love for St. Louis and TBFIB won't persuade him to sign a contract like the one he was offered. That was a serious lowball, and you can't deny it with a straight face.

I just wonder what the actual contract offer was. I don't buy for a second that the offer would have only made him the 10th highest player or whatever. And I'm sure the Cards did lowball him hoping for a hometown discount.

 

Do we know if the offer was an extension starting in the 2012 season or was it going to be a new contract starting this year?

 

If it was going to start this year, any chance the Cards didn't offer him a bigger contract partly to keep his salary at $16M this year rather than $25-30? Because they've got some contracts coming off the books after this year.

[Backtobanks]

If the Tigers are successful in making Cabrera's contract non-guaranteed, they could be another possible destination for Pujols.

From MLBTR:

 

 

•Some executives in baseball wonder if the Tigers will try to make Miguel Cabrera's contract non-guaranteed, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney (Twitter links). The first baseman, who was arrested and charged with driving under the influence last night, has five years and $106MM remaining on his long-term deal with the Tigers. The Mets unsuccessfully attempted to convert Francisco Rodriguez's contract into a non-guaranteed deal after his legal trouble in 2010.

he

[Banedon]

Not to be negative nancy here, but I really think he'll end up re-signing with the Cards. This guy has never been about the money, unfortunately. He's taken less in the past to stay with the Cards, and I bet when it comes right down to it, he'll do it again. He'll try to get what he can out of em, but I don't think he's leaving.

[Guest]

Well if Detroit is going to kick Cabrera to the curb to go after Pujols, then let them do that and just go after Cabrera instead.

[hawkeyecub]

just die already

 

Really? That's what you're going with?

[Sammy Sofa]

Not to be negative nancy here, but I really think he'll end up re-signing with the Cards. This guy has never been about the money, unfortunately. He's taken less in the past to stay with the Cards, and I bet when it comes right down to it, he'll do it again. He'll try to get what he can out of em, but I don't think he's leaving.

 

Here's the thing, though...I think LaRussa is essentially right. I think there is pressure on Pujols on the players' side of things to get a contract that's "worthy" of him instead of taking the pretty huge discount that's seemingly going to be necessary for St. Louis to re-sign him. Yes, this is the team he came up with...but he's already won a championship for them and has given them a decade of historic baseball for relatively bargain rates, so I could see him feeling more obligated to setting the precedent expected of him than just taking a lowball deal from the Cardinals. There's a way he's still doing the "right thing" in taking a bigger deal instead of just chasing money.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well if Detroit is going to kick Cabrera to the curb to go after Pujols, then let them do that and just go after Cabrera instead.

 

Yeah, this offseason is potentially shaping up to be pretty insane if Pujols, Fielder, Gonzalez AND Cabrera are going to be available. Definitely a good time to have a ton of money to spend.

[CubColtPacer]

Not to be negative nancy here, but I really think he'll end up re-signing with the Cards. This guy has never been about the money, unfortunately. He's taken less in the past to stay with the Cards, and I bet when it comes right down to it, he'll do it again. He'll try to get what he can out of em, but I don't think he's leaving.

 

Remember that the last time it wasn't just a hometown discount though. It also gave Pujols long-term security. Plus he was still three years from free agency when he signed his last deal.

 

It's also interesting to note that the Cardinals deferred money to sign Pujols to his last deal. They already are paying him until 2029.

[C.C.]

If attendance keeps taking a hit you gotta hope they are going to be itching to make a splash next year.

[SouthSideRyan]

Not to be negative nancy here, but I really think he'll end up re-signing with the Cards. This guy has never been about the money, unfortunately. He's taken less in the past to stay with the Cards, and I bet when it comes right down to it, he'll do it again. He'll try to get what he can out of em, but I don't think he's leaving.

 

So because he signed a team-friendly contract 6 years ago while he was still in arbitration he isn't about the money and will take less to stay in St. Louis???????

[SouthSideRyan]

Hey guys, pretty sure Evan Longoria is going to stay in Tampa his entire career. He took less to stay with them in the past, and has never really been about the money.

[Guest]

Not to be negative nancy here, but I really think he'll end up re-signing with the Cards. This guy has never been about the money, unfortunately. He's taken less in the past to stay with the Cards, and I bet when it comes right down to it, he'll do it again. He'll try to get what he can out of em, but I don't think he's leaving.

 

So because he signed a team-friendly contract 6 years ago while he was still in arbitration he isn't about the money and will take less to stay in St. Louis???????

 

 

Some people's defense mechanism against being disappointed by something they really really want to happen not happening is downplaying the chances of that thing happening. Did that even make sense?

 

 

Not that I'm saying I think we'll sign Pujols...or that it's even really likely... but I'd have to agree that it's a stretch to paint the picture that optimistically for the Cardinals.

[Banedon]

Not to be negative nancy here, but I really think he'll end up re-signing with the Cards. This guy has never been about the money, unfortunately. He's taken less in the past to stay with the Cards, and I bet when it comes right down to it, he'll do it again. He'll try to get what he can out of em, but I don't think he's leaving.

 

So because he signed a team-friendly contract 6 years ago while he was still in arbitration he isn't about the money and will take less to stay in St. Louis???????

 

 

Some people's defense mechanism against being disappointed by something they really really want to happen not happening is downplaying the chances of that thing happening. Did that even make sense?

 

 

Not that I'm saying I think we'll sign Pujols...or that it's even really likely... but I'd have to agree that it's a stretch to paint the picture that optimistically for the Cardinals.

 

We're all guessing here, and I think it's reasonable to think that given Albert's pro-STL quotes, his past behavior when it comes to contract negotiations, and the fact that, while not one of the highest paid guys in the league, the guy has already made some pretty nice cash over the years, that he may not be looking to completely break the bank here.

 

It's also reasonable to think that he's gonna walk. Maybe it's more about the money than he's previously let on. I certainly understand that thought, and don't bregrudge anyone think that's going to happen.

 

But I think he stays. I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion.

[Sammy Sofa]

He's made some nice cash, but technically has been severely underpaid. He's due.

[Banedon]

He's made some nice cash, but technically has been severely underpaid. He's due.

 

Undoubtedly, and if that's what he wants to go after, he'll get his money. I still say when it's all said and done, he'll take a little less (but still get a ton of freaking money) to stay in STL.

[MWV]

I think he remains in STL, which I can live with provided he extracts a massive annual salary from the Cards for many, many years. If he signs with them for less than A-Rod money, I'm going to be disappointed.

[Sammy Sofa]

He's made some nice cash, but technically has been severely underpaid. He's due.

 

Undoubtedly, and if that's what he wants to go after, he'll get his money. I still say when it's all said and done, he'll take a little less (but still get a ton of freaking money) to stay in STL.

 

Yeah, but a little less from what he's asking still seems to be way out of their price range.

[Banedon]

He's made some nice cash, but technically has been severely underpaid. He's due.

 

Undoubtedly, and if that's what he wants to go after, he'll get his money. I still say when it's all said and done, he'll take a little less (but still get a ton of freaking money) to stay in STL.

 

Yeah, but a little less from what he's asking still seems to be way out of their price range.

 

Albert seems to indicate in his most recent quotes that what the media is reporting as his "asking price" isn't accurate. Could well just be him trying to throw the media off...but I guess we'll see.

 

Random thought: This could end up being possibly the longest lasting baseball related thread this forum has ever had.