Re: 08/02 Milwaukee (Gallardo) @ CUBS (Wells) 7:05 CDT, WCIU

[SouthSideRyan]

Fred deserves a bonus

[Fred Hornkohl]

Fred deserves a bonus

 

I hope that's not Latin for boner !! :wink:

[SouthSideRyan]

Fred deserves a bonus

 

I hope that's not Latin for boner !! :wink:

 

There's a reason I didn't say raise.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Fred deserves a bonus

 

I hope that's not Latin for boner !! :wink:

 

There's a reason I didn't say raise.

 

Indeed !!

[jersey cubs fan]

can this conversation be split off into something else?

[SpongeWorthy]

I believe the technical term is "only sulley's teams."

[SouthSideRyan]

can this conversation be split off into something else?

 

Re: Fred's penis (split from Only the CUBS)

[Sammy Sofa]

Only the Cubs split Fred's penis.

[CUBZ99]

Apparently Macha called the press box in the 9th inning to dispute Castro's error and trying to get the 27th hit for the Brewers. :lol:

[Mark Priors Calves]

thanks to Fred for moving this from the game thread black hole to the light of day in the cubs discussion. i, and many others, would have missed out on this beauty of a thread.

[lumafia]

I agree with erik. While the Cubs haven't set a ton of futility records, and some of the "records" they came very close to setting are rather obscure, I would have a hard time believing that many teams have done some of these things in such a reasonably short amount of time. I can't be sure, but the Cubs certainly seem to be trying to re-define the word "suck".

[flyseye]

Throat Warbler Mangrove .

[javy knows my name]

"Those peaks and valleys must be murder"

 

HAHAHAHAH

[Sammy Sofa]

I agree with erik. While the Cubs haven't set a ton of futility records, and some of the "records" they came very close to setting are rather obscure, I would have a hard time believing that many teams have done some of these things in such a reasonably short amount of time. I can't be sure, but the Cubs certainly seem to be trying to re-define the word "suck".

 

Honestly, it seems like every time there's a game where one team gets killed and the other wins by putting up football numbers you hear about it was the first time since so-and-so that a team did or didn't do this or that.

[Fred Hornkohl]

The problem with all this "Only the CUBS" mentality is that everybody is working off their "recent memory", just as erik alluded to in one of his earlier posts, without much regard for the history of game and the teams that play it. This is compounded by the fact many of you have a much shorter "recent memory" than others do. All that being said, I took some time to run some numbers, and here's what I came up with.......

 

The CUBS have long held the moniker of "lovable losers", and I readily admit, the last 60 years or so have been pretty bleak, throughout the history of baseball, the CUBS are not anywhere near being the epitome of futility that many make them out to be. Taking the lifetime winning percentages of only the pre-expansion teams........

 

          1876 thru 2009                            World Series
team                        W       L     pct    PA     W     L

New York Yankees         9577    7294   0.568    48    27    13
San Francisco Giants    10348    8886   0.538    22     5    12
Los Angeles Dodgers      9652    8756   0.524    26     6    12
Boston Red Sox           8730    8160   0.517    20     7     4
Chicago Cubs            10165    9606   0.514    16     2     8
Cleveland Indians        8635    8269   0.511    10     2     3
St. Louis Cardinals      9239    8910   0.509    24    10     7
Pittsburgh Pirates       9524    9275   0.507    14     5     2
Chicago White Sox        8532    8339   0.506     9     3     2
Detroit Tigers           8564    8356   0.506    12     4     6
Cincinnati Reds          9420    9369   0.501    12     5     4
Atlanta Braves           9854    9883   0.499    20     3     6
Oakland A's              8151    8682   0.484    23     9     5
Minnesota Twins          8138    8748   0.482    13     3     3
Baltimore Orioles        8011    8843   0.475    11     3     4
Philadelphia Phillies    9008   10168   0.470    12     2     5

 

....... the CUBS come in 5th. That's top third of the pack. Yeah, I know they haven't made it to the World Series as often as the fans would hope, but hey, being in the top third ain't chopped liver !! Below are what I consider to be the 50 worst seasons ever compiled in major league baseball (* denotes expansion teams)..............

 

Team                              W     L     Pct
1890 Pittsburgh Pirates          23   113   0.169
1897 St. Louis Cardinals         29   102   0.221
1916 Philadelphia As             36   117   0.235
1935 Boston Braves               38   115   0.248
1962 * New York Mets             40   120   0.250
1904 Washington Senators         38   113   0.252
1898 St. Louis Cardinals         39   111   0.260
2003 Detroit Tigers              43   119   0.265
1952 Pittsburgh Pirates          41   112   0.268
1939 St. Louis Browns            41   111   0.270
1909 Washington Senators         42   110   0.276
1942 Philadelphia Phillies       42   109   0.278
1932 Boston Red Sox              43   111   0.279
1941 Philadelphia Phillies       43   111   0.279
1928 Philadelphia Phillies       43   109   0.283
1915 Philadelphia As             43   109   0.283
1911 Boston Braves               44   107   0.291
1909 Boston Braves               45   108   0.294
1911 St. Louis Browns            45   107   0.296
1939 Philadelphia Phillies       45   106   0.298
1945 Philadelphia Phillies       46   108   0.299
1937 St. Louis Browns            46   108   0.299
1937 Philadelphia As             46   108   0.299
1938 Philadelphia Phillies       45   105   0.300
1926 Boston Red Sox              46   107   0.301
1910 St. Louis Browns            47   107   0.305
1961 Philadelphia Phillies       47   107   0.305
1965 * New York Mets             50   112   0.309
1920 Philadelphia As             48   106   0.312
1963 * New York Mets             51   111   0.315
2004 * Arizona Diamondbacks      51   111   0.315
1906 Boston Red Sox              49   105   0.318
1969 * Montreal Expos            52   110   0.321
1969 * San Diego Padres          52   110   0.321
1940 Philadelphia Phillies       50   103   0.327
1996 Detroit Tigers              53   109   0.327
1964 * New York Mets             53   109   0.327
1979 * Toronto Blue Jays         53   109   0.327
1917 Pittsburgh Pirates          51   103   0.331
1998 * Florida Marlins           54   108   0.333
1979 Oakland As                  54   108   0.333
1977 * Toronto Blue Jays         54   107   0.335
1988 Baltimore Orioles           54   107   0.335
1976 * Montreal Expos            55   107   0.340
2002 * Tampa Bay Devilrays       55   106   0.342
2002 Detroit Tigers              55   106   0.342
2003 * Texas Rangers             56   106   0.346
1970 Chicago white sox           56   106   0.346
2005 * Kansas City Royals        56   106   0.346
1973 * Washington Senators       57   105   0.352

 

Notice the complete absence of the Chicago CUBS from this list. The CUBS have been bad far too often for our tastes, but they are rarely epically bad. In fact, in their 134 year existence they have only had 2 seasons with as many as 100 losses. Here's a listing of all the franchises and the number of 100 loss seasons they've had........

 

Team                              #
Houston Astros                    0
Los Angeles/Anaheim               0
Colorado Rockies                  0
Cincinnati Reds                   1
New York/San Francisco            1
Florida Marlins                   1
Arizona Diamondbacks              1
Milwaukee Brewers                 1
CUBS                              2
New York Yankees                  2
Brooklyn/Los Angeles              2
Chicago white sox                 3
Toronto Bluejays                  3
Tampa Bay Devilrays               3
Montreal/Washington               4
Seattle Mariners                  4
St. Louis Cardinals               4
Kansas City Royals                4
Cleveland Indians                 5
San Diego Padres                  5
New York Mets                     6
Washington/Minnesota              6
Washington/Texas                  6
Detroit Tigers                    6
Pittsburgh Pirates                7
Boston Red Sox                    7
Milwaukee/St. Louis/Baltimore    10
Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta         13
Philadelphia Philllies           14
Philadelphia/K.C./Oakland        17

 

Hey, what do you know ??? In the top third again !! What about prolonged periods of suckage ? Well, I considered that, too. The following is a listing of the worst decade of baseball committed by each of the franchises..........

 

Years     Team                                 W     L     Pct
1936-1945 Philadelphia Phillies              511  1016   0.335
1904-1913 Boston Braves                      539   982   0.354
1923-1932 Boston Red Sox                     544   988   0.355
1937-1946 Philadelphia As                    549   983   0.358
1901-1910 Washington Senators (Twins)        549   936   0.370
1946-1955 St. Louis Browns                   576   963   0.374
1904-1913 St. Louis Cardinals                592   930   0.389
1904-1913 Brooklyn Dodgers                   594   924   0.391
1998-2007 Tampa Bay Devilrays                645   972   0.399
1996-2005 Detroit Tigers                     652   966   0.403
1969-1978 San Diego Padres                   651   959   0.404
1962-1971 New York Mets                      660   957   0.408
1677-1686 Seattle Mariners                   641   924   0.410
1997-2006 Kansas City Royals                 666   951   0.412
1925-1934 Cincinnati Red                     649   903   0.418
1961-1970 Washington Senators (Rangers)      677   936   0.420
2000-2009 Pittsburgh Pirates                 681   936   0.421
1926-1935 Chicago white sox                  643   881   0.422
1957-1966 CUBS                               680   900   0.430
1969-1978 Milwaukee Brewers                  707   905   0.439
1962-1971 Houston Astros                     710   908   0.439
1983-1992 Cleveland Indians                  711   909   0.439
2000-2009 Montreal/Washington                711   908   0.439
1908-1917 New York Yankees                   686   838   0.450
1977-1986 Toronto Blue Jays                  711   850   0.455
1997-2006 Colorado Rockies                   745   875   0.460
1968-1977 Anaheim Angels                     744   868   0.462
1976-1985 San Francisco Giants               734   834   0.468
1998-2007 Florida Marlins                    758   861   0.468
2000-2009 Arizona Diamondbacks               805   815   0.497

 

Didn't quite make the top one third on this list..... but we're close.

 

Look, I realize that this is unscientific, cherry picked, random, arbitrary and incorrigible, but it should make the point that if you wanted to demonstrate some real hardcore suckage in baseball you could find some teams that are a whole lot worse than the CUBS.

 

 

Only the CUBS ???

 

NOT !!

[chuckywang]

Apparently the Brewers are petitioning MLB for a scoring change from yesterday so they can have 27 hits, which would be the most hits the Cubs have allowed in their history.

 

 

Any respect I had for the Brewers (next to none) has just evaporated.

[Sammy Sofa]

Fred, you are a doll.

[erik316wttn]

Apparently the Brewers are petitioning MLB for a scoring change from yesterday so they can have 27 hits, which would be the most hits the Cubs have allowed in their history.

 

 

Any respect I had for the Brewers (next to none) has just evaporated.

 

A) Not your fault, but "chuckywang" posting in a thread where Fred's junk was recently discussed is pretty funny (I take no issue with your post or you personally, though)

 

b) No wonder your team is always thrown at, Ken. It's full of classless morons like you

 

c) Lumafia is a smart man. Listen to him

 

D) Fred the stat man with some very interesting material there. Fred, I take no issue with anything you've posted and I'm sure it's 100% factual. Others should take note. You have a complete buttload of info readily available to you in your handy laptop. I still say you missed your calling working for Stats, Inc, but I digress... It's not just the Cubs overall w/l record that makes me say "Only the Cubs" It's just.... I can't put my finger on it and I don't want to say it's a curse because that's stupid, but.... I just don't know. The Cubs have a different feeling about them than other teams do. I have nothing to back that up and it's just my own personal experience. They have had some exceptionally bad luck the last 40-ish years or so, and I'm not just talking about W-L records either. People know what I'm talking about. And yes, there have been other teams that have had bad luck too (see: Red Sox, Boston). I fully admit that, but none anywhere near on the level of the Cubs.

 

Thank you again, Fred, for actually posting stats and facts to back up your argument. I have a ton of respect for that. The Cubs are nowhere near the worst franchise of all time. I will admit that.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Fred, you are a doll.

 

:hello:

[Sammy Sofa]

c) Lumafia is a smart man. Listen to him

 

Wait, why? Neither of you have shown what the Cubs did to have been exceptional.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

It's not just the Cubs overall w/l record that makes me say "Only the Cubs" It's just.... I can't put my finger on it and I don't want to say it's a curse because that's stupid, but.... I just don't know. The Cubs have a different feeling about them than other teams do. I have nothing to back that up and it's just my own personal experience. They have had some exceptionally bad luck the last 40-ish years or so, and I'm not just talking about W-L records either. People know what I'm talking about. And yes, there have been other teams that have had bad luck too (see: Red Sox, Boston). I fully admit that, but none anywhere near on the level of the Cubs.

 

You think maybe this insane rambling drivel is why nobody else bothered to post stats?

[erik316wttn]

 

It's not just the Cubs overall w/l record that makes me say "Only the Cubs" It's just.... I can't put my finger on it and I don't want to say it's a curse because that's stupid, but.... I just don't know. The Cubs have a different feeling about them than other teams do. I have nothing to back that up and it's just my own personal experience. They have had some exceptionally bad luck the last 40-ish years or so, and I'm not just talking about W-L records either. People know what I'm talking about. And yes, there have been other teams that have had bad luck too (see: Red Sox, Boston). I fully admit that, but none anywhere near on the level of the Cubs.

 

You think maybe this insane rambling drivel is why nobody else bothered to post stats?

 

No, I think nobody bothered to post stats because everyone other than Fred who took issue with what I said was too lazy and/or stupid to do so.

[Sammy Sofa]

You didn't even prove your own point in the first place. How is it possible you aren't grasping this at all?

[bhogg]

While this has been an absolute train wreck of a season, it's also true that the cubs are not the worst. I mentioned on another board that the cubs had not lost 100 games in a season in my lifetime -- people argued with me. However, they've not. I don't think they've lost 100 in a season since the early 60s.

 

It could be worse, but it could also be a helluva lot better.

[TruffleShuffle]

i don't even consider this year's team to be epically bad, like the 2006 team. that team had considerable amounts of playing time by stiffs like freddie bynum, ronny cedeno, juan pierre, john mabry, henry blanco, jerry hairston and, of course, neifi perez. their #5 starters were carlos marmol (6.08 era), angel guzman (7.39 era), juan mateo (5.32 era) and mark prior (7.21 era... R.I.P.) this team is just garden-variety bad. the only thing that's notable about them is that they've been one of the 10 worst teams in baseball with the 3rd highest payroll. that's extremely embarrassing and speaks to the complete incompetence of management, but as for the players on the field, they're nothing more than pretty lousy.