Theriot on Castro

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

When we have a player that we are already going to be paying this year whom we would expect to put up similar numbers as Castro, why would we want to start his arb clock running any sooner? Wouldn't we rather have his season at age 25 (or whatever age he'd be on his last year) than his age 20 season? Let's think long term here. Even if you ARE giving up on the Cubs playoff chances, I would think that was all the more reason to keep him getting guaranteed everyday ABs in the minors where he will still feel free to tinker and develop.

[NewUserName]

For Castro's sake, I hope he's at AA for at least half this season.

 

For everyone's sake, really. Hopefully valuable lessons were learned from the whole Corey Patterson debacle that ensure the same mistakes will never be made again.

 

I dont think Patterson was rushed. I think a certain manager tried to make him something he was not. If they would have just left him alone and let him bat 6 or 7th he probably would have been fine. Of course I think his expectations were higher then his reality also.

 

That being said I think Castro should be in AA this season. I am one who usually is all for bringing players up. In this case I dont see the rush as long as we have Theriot playing average SS.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I dont think Patterson was rushed. I think a certain manager tried to make him something he was not. If they would have just left him alone and let him bat 6 or 7th he probably would have been fine. Of course I think his expectations were higher then his reality also.

 

That being said I think Castro should be in AA this season. I am one who usually is all for bringing players up. In this case I dont see the rush as long as we have Theriot playing average SS.

 

I think Patterson just never became good enough. It's one thing to look at a 19 y/o's numbers and predict "if he keeps getting better at a normal rate, he'll be X," but sometimes they just stop getting better or get better way too slowly. It could happen to Castro too.

[erik316wttn]

For Castro's sake, I hope he's at AA for at least half this season.

 

For everyone's sake, really. Hopefully valuable lessons were learned from the whole Corey Patterson debacle that ensure the same mistakes will never be made again.

 

I dont think Patterson was rushed. I think a certain manager tried to make him something he was not. If they would have just left him alone and let him bat 6 or 7th he probably would have been fine. Of course I think his expectations were higher then his reality also.

 

That being said I think Castro should be in AA this season. I am one who usually is all for bringing players up. In this case I dont see the rush as long as we have Theriot playing average SS.

 

Part of what you say is true, however Corey was also brought up and then spent long stretches on the bench, hindering his development. And yes, the whole "trying to make him a power hitter" thing didn't work out too well. And I'm of the opinion that he was indeed rushed. Multiple mistakes were made that derailed a promising career.

[17 Seconds]

For Castro's sake, I hope he's at AA for at least half this season.

 

For everyone's sake, really. Hopefully valuable lessons were learned from the whole Corey Patterson debacle that ensure the same mistakes will never be made again.

 

I dont think Patterson was rushed. I think a certain manager tried to make him something he was not. If they would have just left him alone and let him bat 6 or 7th he probably would have been fine. Of course I think his expectations were higher then his reality also.

 

That being said I think Castro should be in AA this season. I am one who usually is all for bringing players up. In this case I dont see the rush as long as we have Theriot playing average SS.

 

Part of what you say is true, however Corey was also brought up and then spent long stretches on the bench, hindering his development.

 

when? for 59 games in 2001? that's the only time he was in the majors and not a full time player. starting in 2002 (age 22) he got the chance tio play every day until his time with the cubs was up.

 

rushed? maybe. but it wasn't a pie situation where he didn't get a chance to play every day.

[NewUserName]

 

Part of what you say is true, however Corey was also brought up and then spent long stretches on the bench, hindering his development. And yes, the whole "trying to make him a power hitter" thing didn't work out too well. And I'm of the opinion that he was indeed rushed. Multiple mistakes were made that derailed a promising career.

 

I think the bigger mistake was trying to shorten his swing and making him into a punch and judy top of the order guy. Like I said, I am not sure he would have ever been what the expectation levels were. I think a mid 700 OPSing good defensive CFer is probably tops.

[Guest]

For Castro's sake, I hope he's at AA for at least half this season.

 

For everyone's sake, really. Hopefully valuable lessons were learned from the whole Corey Patterson debacle that ensure the same mistakes will never be made again.

 

I dont think Patterson was rushed. I think a certain manager tried to make him something he was not. If they would have just left him alone and let him bat 6 or 7th he probably would have been fine. Of course I think his expectations were higher then his reality also.

 

That being said I think Castro should be in AA this season. I am one who usually is all for bringing players up. In this case I dont see the rush as long as we have Theriot playing average SS.

 

I'd say Patterson was rushed. After his first pro season, he skipped high-A for AA and then didn't light up the world. Then, he started yo-yoing between the big leagues and AAA despite a .695 OPS at AAA.

 

I agree that Baylor didn't help him out by trying to make him a leadoff hitter when he wasn't one.

[Guest]

when? for 59 games in 2001? that's the only time he was in the majors and not a full time player. starting in 2002 (age 22) he got the chance tio play every day until his time with the cubs was up.

 

rushed? maybe. but it wasn't a pie situation where he didn't get a chance to play every day.

 

Yes, the 59 games in 2001. Of those 59 games, he got 2 or less at bats in 33 of those games over a 3 and a half month period. 30 of those games were 1 at bat or less. 26 games (the equivilent of one month worth of games) he played a full game in 2001 at the age of 20. If you aren't going to play him, let him stay in the minors and develop. Look at his game log from 2001. It's pathetic.

 

Baylor was actually worse than Baker when it comes to letting rookies play.

 

That's not to say that Baker ruined him, however. Patterson might never have turned out to be the player he was expected to be, but the Cubs promoted him as if he was a college draftee rather than a high school draftee.

[17 Seconds]

i find it really hard to believe that a 59 game stretch could have significantly effected a player's development. it's 2 months.

[indycub]

After re-reading this thread, I have decided to admit I was completely wrong. As a big Castro fan, I want him to be up as soon as possible. However, I don't want the Cubs to rush him. The last guy that I can recall that started at 20 years old was Cameron Maybin (who, I hate to say it, had more upside than Castro at this point). He was extremely rushed. When he went back to AAA, he dominated, and now he is back on track. In hindsight, they probably would have waited another year with Maybin and that is what I think we should do with Castro. On top of that, we have looked mediocre at best at SS for as long as I can remember. But one more year of frustration is completely worth a properly developed Castro in 2011.

[Old Style]

Elvis Andrus started at SS for the Rangers last year at 20.

[erik316wttn]

After re-reading this thread, I have decided to admit I was completely wrong. As a big Castro fan, I want him to be up as soon as possible. However, I don't want the Cubs to rush him. The last guy that I can recall that started at 20 years old was Cameron Maybin (who, I hate to say it, had more upside than Castro at this point). He was extremely rushed. When he went back to AAA, he dominated, and now he is back on track. In hindsight, they probably would have waited another year with Maybin and that is what I think we should do with Castro. On top of that, we have looked mediocre at best at SS for as long as I can remember. But one more year of frustration is completely worth a properly developed Castro in 2011.

 

I fear, though, that if we have bad production out of SS (prompting a benching/trading of Theriot) or 2B (prompting Theriot to move there to open up SS) we'll see Castro sooner than we should.

[Cubswin11]

Don't know where to exactly put this, but Castro might be starting at SS on Thursday.

 

http://muskat.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/03/31_the_kids_will_get_a_chance.html

[biittner77]

Piniella said. "How about if Cashner is lights out and we put him in the bullpen? I'm just talking out loud."

 

How about we keep Cashner at AA and let him try to become a much more valuable starting pitcher.

[jersey cubs fan]

Piniella said. "How about if Cashner is lights out and we put him in the bullpen? I'm just talking out loud."

 

How about we keep Cashner at AA and let him try to become a much more valuable starting pitcher.

 

If he stood a good chance of becoming a quality starter, I'd be in favor of that option. But I don't see it happening, and don't have a problem with letting him relieve now.

[CUBZ99]

Piniella said. "How about if Cashner is lights out and we put him in the bullpen? I'm just talking out loud."

 

How about we keep Cashner at AA and let him try to become a much more valuable starting pitcher.

 

If he stood a good chance of becoming a quality starter, I'd be in favor of that option. But I don't see it happening, and don't have a problem with letting him relieve now.

 

I agree, from all accounts he could be a lights out late inning reliever this year. There is also no indication as to whether he will cut it as a starter.

[Guest]

Piniella said. "How about if Cashner is lights out and we put him in the bullpen? I'm just talking out loud."

 

How about we keep Cashner at AA and let him try to become a much more valuable starting pitcher.

 

If he stood a good chance of becoming a quality starter, I'd be in favor of that option. But I don't see it happening, and don't have a problem with letting him relieve now.

 

I agree, from all accounts he could be a lights out late inning reliever this year. There is also no indication as to whether he will cut it as a starter.

Generally, you let him prove that he can't cut it as a starter instead of assuming he won't make it.

[biittner77]

There's plenty of time to turn Cashner into a reliever, if that's his fate. The Cubs have plenty of viable options for that last BP spot. It won't hurt Cashner or the Cubs for him to continue starting the first half of the season.

[jersey cubs fan]

There's plenty of time to turn Cashner into a reliever, if that's his fate. The Cubs have plenty of viable options for that last BP spot. It won't hurt Cashner or the Cubs for him to continue starting the first half of the season.

 

It might not hurt him, but it could help them to just accept what they have.

[Splendid Splinter]

Piniella said. "How about if Cashner is lights out and we put him in the bullpen? I'm just talking out loud."

 

How about we keep Cashner at AA and let him try to become a much more valuable starting pitcher.

 

If he stood a good chance of becoming a quality starter, I'd be in favor of that option. But I don't see it happening, and don't have a problem with letting him relieve now.

 

I second that. If he can become a good starter, then leave him in the minor but he would be a killer reliever if he doesn't pan out as a starter. Really, I'm still hoping Thomas Diamond will be lights out in ST so he can be our 5th starter. Anyway, with Lou saying that... I'm scared for our pitching prospects. I hate seeing them going back to forth from starting to relieving unless you specifically say "he's going to help our bullpen this year, but next year he's going back to starting"

[Guest]

There's plenty of time to turn Cashner into a reliever, if that's his fate. The Cubs have plenty of viable options for that last BP spot. It won't hurt Cashner or the Cubs for him to continue starting the first half of the season.

 

It might not hurt him, but it could help them to just accept what they have.

Personally, I think he'll be fine as a starter. I have no idea why you could be so confident that he has no chance at being a legit starter.

[CUBZ99]

There's plenty of time to turn Cashner into a reliever, if that's his fate. The Cubs have plenty of viable options for that last BP spot. It won't hurt Cashner or the Cubs for him to continue starting the first half of the season.

 

It might not hurt him, but it could help them to just accept what they have.

Personally, I think he'll be fine as a starter. I have no idea why you could be so confident that he has no chance at being a legit starter.

 

Putting him in the bullpen this year doesn't prevent him from starting later on.

[CUBZ99]

Piniella said. "How about if Cashner is lights out and we put him in the bullpen? I'm just talking out loud."

 

How about we keep Cashner at AA and let him try to become a much more valuable starting pitcher.

 

If he stood a good chance of becoming a quality starter, I'd be in favor of that option. But I don't see it happening, and don't have a problem with letting him relieve now.

 

I second that. If he can become a good starter, then leave him in the minor but he would be a killer reliever if he doesn't pan out as a starter. Really, I'm still hoping Thomas Diamond will be lights out in ST so he can be our 5th starter. Anyway, with Lou saying that... I'm scared for our pitching prospects. I hate seeing them going back to forth from starting to relieving unless you specifically say "he's going to help our bullpen this year, but next year he's going back to starting"

 

I see much talk about Diamond on the board and absolutely zero about him in the press or out of Lou. I would think that if he were an option we would have seen some mention of him by this point. I think it is also telling that they have already named the starters for the first week of Spring Training and Diamond is not even on the list of starters.

 

Is there some reason to think Diamond has regained his velocity and command? or is it mostly the fact that at one time he was a highly ranked prospect?

[David]

There's plenty of time to turn Cashner into a reliever, if that's his fate. The Cubs have plenty of viable options for that last BP spot. It won't hurt Cashner or the Cubs for him to continue starting the first half of the season.

 

It might not hurt him, but it could help them to just accept what they have.

Personally, I think he'll be fine as a starter. I have no idea why you could be so confident that he has no chance at being a legit starter.

 

Putting him in the bullpen this year doesn't prevent him from starting later on.

 

 

It definitely would help. It stunts his development as a starter and could very possibly pigeonhole him into relieving.

[jersey cubs fan]

There's plenty of time to turn Cashner into a reliever, if that's his fate. The Cubs have plenty of viable options for that last BP spot. It won't hurt Cashner or the Cubs for him to continue starting the first half of the season.

 

It might not hurt him, but it could help them to just accept what they have.

Personally, I think he'll be fine as a starter. I have no idea why you could be so confident that he has no chance at being a legit starter.

 

Basically because he's never been a quality starter. I've never heard of college relievers turning into starters. He's not young, and if his arm isn't developed enough now to be a starter, I don't see it happening later. I think it's just pie in the sky wishing that he could one day be a quality starter, not-unlike the hopes that Marmol could have been a starter. I'm not 100% convinced he won't, but I think it's a big longshot.