Will Andre Dawson get elected to the Hall of Fame? YES!

[OleMissCub]

Here is a FJM-ish attack on that red headed Muppet from Boston's latest column about the HOF.

 

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2010/01/in_which_a_base.php

 

If I squint here, I think Dan is saying he’s a “small hall” guy. That would be fine. It really would. A Hall of Fame that enshrines fewer players, as Sky demonstrated yesterday, would be great. But Dan, not only did you vote Jim Rice in, but you were like Chuck Norris to John McCain, touting Rice's candidacy at every opportunity for what seemed like a full decade. You can’t – CAN’T – be a “small hall” proponent and also advocate for baseball’s 258th best position player of all time. It’s a complete joke.

[BeerHere]

Congrats Hawk. You and Ryno are my two favorite Cubs.

[Soul]

The fact that Mariotti is one of the people that determines baseball's HOF should tell everyone something.

[SouthSideRyan]

it should be required that every hall of fame voter makes their ballot public. that way the people who vote for eric karros and david segui have to defend their jackassery.

 

I don't have too much of a problem with this in theory because there are pretty much never 10 viable candidates. If you want to throw a bone some guy's way so he has 1 or 2 votes, go crazy. If you're picking David Segui and omitting Barry Larkin, go [expletive] yourself.

[bukie]

I think if you intend to vote for nobody in a year, your ballot shouldn't count towards the % required to get in.

 

EDIT: Of course, idiots would side step that by issuing a throwaway vote at, say, Eric Karros, but public ballots would make those writers at least somewhat accountable for that.

[bukie]

I'm happy for the Hawk, but I think there were 6 candidates on the ballot that deserve being in the hall more than him, and it's a shame they didn't get in.

 

Alomar and Blyleven got robbed. Trammell, Raines, Larkin and McGwire deserve more hall support. Heck, Edgar Martinez was arguably better.

[kujay]

Is there any good reason why the ballots shouldn't be public?

[kujay]

I'm happy for the Hawk, but I think there were 6 candidates on the ballot that deserve being in the hall more than him, and it's a shame they didn't get in.

 

Alomar and Blyleven got robbed. Trammell, Raines, Larkin and McGwire deserve more hall support. Heck, Edgar Martinez was arguably better.

 

I would never, ever vote for a DH for the hall. They are hardly even players.

[bukie]

Is there any good reason why the ballots shouldn't be public?

Because the BBWAA thinks they're the stonecutters guild or something.

[bukie]

I'm happy for the Hawk, but I think there were 6 candidates on the ballot that deserve being in the hall more than him, and it's a shame they didn't get in.

 

Alomar and Blyleven got robbed. Trammell, Raines, Larkin and McGwire deserve more hall support. Heck, Edgar Martinez was arguably better.

 

I would never, ever vote for a DH for the hall. They are hardly even players.

If Ozzie Smith can get into the hall for being world class at one baseball tool, a DH has a place in the hall.

[fromthestretch]

I'm happy for the Hawk, but I think there were 6 candidates on the ballot that deserve being in the hall more than him, and it's a shame they didn't get in.

 

Alomar and Blyleven got robbed. Trammell, Raines, Larkin and McGwire deserve more hall support. Heck, Edgar Martinez was arguably better.

 

I would never, ever vote for a DH for the hall. They are hardly even players.

If Ozzie Smith can get into the hall for being world class at one baseball tool, a DH has a place in the hall.

 

I think you can make the argument that Smith excelled in two areas, not one. He was phenomenal on defense, and he was a very good baserunner (21st all time in stolen bases, 80% success rate).

[kujay]

I'm happy for the Hawk, but I think there were 6 candidates on the ballot that deserve being in the hall more than him, and it's a shame they didn't get in.

 

Alomar and Blyleven got robbed. Trammell, Raines, Larkin and McGwire deserve more hall support. Heck, Edgar Martinez was arguably better.

 

I would never, ever vote for a DH for the hall. They are hardly even players.

If Ozzie Smith can get into the hall for being world class at one baseball tool, a DH has a place in the hall.

 

Yeah but he at least still had to hit. And he wasn't terrible at it. If you're not playing the whole game, the parts you are playing have to be devalued.

[bukie]

I'm happy for the Hawk, but I think there were 6 candidates on the ballot that deserve being in the hall more than him, and it's a shame they didn't get in.

 

Alomar and Blyleven got robbed. Trammell, Raines, Larkin and McGwire deserve more hall support. Heck, Edgar Martinez was arguably better.

 

I would never, ever vote for a DH for the hall. They are hardly even players.

If Ozzie Smith can get into the hall for being world class at one baseball tool, a DH has a place in the hall.

 

Yeah but he at least still had to hit. And he wasn't terrible at it. If you're not playing the whole game, the parts you are playing have to be devalued.

There are also relief pitchers in the hall.

[OleMissCub]

can't compare pitchers to position players imo.

[kujay]

can't compare pitchers to position players imo.

 

This.

[bukie]

can't compare pitchers to position players imo.

Why not? Because it destroys the moronic argument that DH's are only part-time players?

[OleMissCub]

can't compare pitchers to position players imo.

Why not? Because it destroys the moronic argument that DH's are only part-time players?

 

yeah ok....that's exactly why.

[bukie]

Dawson also has the dubious distinction of the OF with the lowest career OBP in the hall, taking the title away from Lou Brock. Brock's career OBP was .343, while Dawson's was .323.

 

Tim Raines was a much better player than Dawson.

 

And I say this knowing Dawson was my second-favorite Cub growing up. He didn't deserve to win the MVP in 1987 (the gaudy RBI totals did it for him, he had a .328 OBP and a .896 OPS), but two more deserving Cardinals (one of which, believe it or not, was Ozzie Smith in by far his best offensive season) split votes to get Dawson to win it.

[BigSlick]

If i ran into Mariotti on the street I'd probably do something that would get me arrested

 

a year after voting for Blyleven he sends in an empty ballot in an imitation of one of those old dinosaurs that refuses to vote anyone in. Its all a freaking power trip to these people, unbelievable.

 

I should have known the HOF would be outrageous considering how correct all the regular season awards were, we don't have that much karma saved up.

 

If Blyleven doesn't get in the HOF is a complete sham. (it already was before but its getting ridiculous, if he had compiled another 13 wins he'd have been in 10 years ago. Also Santo, etc.)

[kujay]

can't compare pitchers to position players imo.

Why not? Because it destroys the moronic argument that DH's are only part-time players?

 

WTF? Why is that a moronic argument? They literally play about 5% of the time during a game, if that.

[bukie]

can't compare pitchers to position players imo.

Why not? Because it destroys the moronic argument that DH's are only part-time players?

 

yeah ok....that's exactly why.

Pitchers have one baseball skill they do well. They pitch. It's one of the three phases of baseball, and largely the most important, but it's still just one thing. Starting pitchers, now they do it all the time, and are counted on for the majority of the season. Relief pitchers, though? They're more of a part-time player than a DH in the game, even back in the 90s. Edgar Martinez was a more important piece of his team than players like Bruce Sutter and Lee Smith were in their times. Martinez was one of the 5-10 best hitters in the game during his time, and should be hall material based on that ability.

[kujay]

can't compare pitchers to position players imo.

Why not? Because it destroys the moronic argument that DH's are only part-time players?

 

yeah ok....that's exactly why.

Pitchers have one baseball skill they do well. They pitch. It's one of the three phases of baseball, and largely the most important, but it's still just one thing. Starting pitchers, now they do it all the time, and are counted on for the majority of the season. Relief pitchers, though? They're more of a part-time player than a DH in the game, even back in the 90s. Edgar Martinez was a more important piece of his team than players like Bruce Sutter and Lee Smith were in their times. Martinez was one of the 5-10 best hitters in the game during his time, and should be hall material based on that ability.

 

Would you agree that it's easier to be a world class hitter when you don't have to focus on defense at all?

[Tyrant]

can't compare pitchers to position players imo.

Why not? Because it destroys the moronic argument that DH's are only part-time players?

 

WTF? Why is that a moronic argument? They literally play about 5% of the time during a game, if that.

 

There are terrible defensive players in the Hall of Fame whose fielding was so bad that it made them less valuable. Just think of Edgar as a guy who provided neutral value defensively with awesome offense.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm happy for the Hawk, but I think there were 6 candidates on the ballot that deserve being in the hall more than him, and it's a shame they didn't get in.

 

Alomar and Blyleven got robbed. Trammell, Raines, Larkin and McGwire deserve more hall support. Heck, Edgar Martinez was arguably better.

 

I would never, ever vote for a DH for the hall. They are hardly even players.

If Ozzie Smith can get into the hall for being world class at one baseball tool, a DH has a place in the hall.

 

Yeah but he at least still had to hit. And he wasn't terrible at it. If you're not playing the whole game, the parts you are playing have to be devalued.

There are also relief pitchers in the hall.

 

Well Bruce Sutter shouldn't be at least. I'd have to look deeper at the others.

[bukie]

can't compare pitchers to position players imo.

Why not? Because it destroys the moronic argument that DH's are only part-time players?

 

yeah ok....that's exactly why.

Pitchers have one baseball skill they do well. They pitch. It's one of the three phases of baseball, and largely the most important, but it's still just one thing. Starting pitchers, now they do it all the time, and are counted on for the majority of the season. Relief pitchers, though? They're more of a part-time player than a DH in the game, even back in the 90s. Edgar Martinez was a more important piece of his team than players like Bruce Sutter and Lee Smith were in their times. Martinez was one of the 5-10 best hitters in the game during his time, and should be hall material based on that ability.

 

Would you agree that it's easier to be a world class hitter when you don't have to focus on defense at all?

As easy as it is to be a world class reliever when you don't have to focus on hitting at all.