NCAA Conference Realignment

[SouthSideRyan]

With all this talk about four 16 team superconferences, I decided to try to make a preliminary list based on current rumors and geographical considerations. I'm assuming the Big East and the Big 12 are no more.

 

PAC-16

---------

UCLA

USC

Stanford

Cal

Oregon

Oregon St

Washington

Washington St

Arizona

Arizona St

Utah

Colorado

Texas

Texas Tech

Oklahoma

Oklahoma St

 

 

Big Ten

----------

Minnesota

Wisconsin

Michigan

Michigan St

Illinois

Northwestern

Iowa

Indiana

Purdue

Ohio St

Penn St

Nebraska

Iowa St

Notre Dame

Missouri

Kansas

 

 

SEC

---------

Florida

South Carolina

Alabama

Auburn

Mississippi

Mississippi St

LSU

Tennessee

Kentucky

Vanderbilt

Arkansas

Georgia

Texas A&M

TCU

West Virginia

Louisville

 

 

 

ACC

---------

Boston College

Maryland

Virginia Tech

Virginia

Duke

Wake Forest

North Carolina

NC State

Clemson

Georgia Tech

Miami

Florida St

Syracuse

Pittsburgh

Connecticut

Rutgers

 

 

 

 

Big East - basketball

----------

Georgetown

Villanova

St. Johns

Seton Hall

Marquette

Cincinnati

South Florida

DePaul

Providence

Xavier

Butler

Temple

 

 

Kansas St -> to MWC

Baylor -> to MWC

 

Cincinnati -> back to Conference USA

South Florida -> back to Conference USA

 

I also think the MWC will become the new Big East in terms of football dominance and will be able to get a BCS automatic bid.

 

Where does Memphis basketball fit into that scenario?

 

In the SEC so Tennessee can have a natural rival.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

Big 10 schools are huge and have terrible grad rates, esp for non-white players.

 

just cant survive with the big boys, can you?

 

We've been trying to keep pace with Minnesota for years. But their top recruits keep staying home. Like Michael Floyd, for example.

 

And now by joining the Big Ten they won't be able to schedule Duke @ Target Field. Bye bye Michael Floyd.

 

What are you talking about?

 

I'm confused to. I mean, with TCF Stadium, why would either the Gophers or Irish want to play at the Twins stadium? Its not set up for football at all, and although I'm sure both teams have athletes, I dont they would make for a very competitive baseball game. It all sounds very awkward.

[Tracer Bullet]

ChuckyWang's List

 

There is no reason for the B1G to take Iowa State or Kansas. They add very little to the revenue pie. ND and Mizzou are the only two options on the table that (1) fit the profile of the conference and (2) add value to the league and increase the BTN's footprint. I'm perfectly content with staying at 12 teams, there is no need to expand to expand.

 

Adding Iowa State will create a natural conference rivalry with Iowa. Adding Kansas will increase the league's basketball profile. You have to add someone if you want to get to 16. That's the assumption I started out with.

There is already a rivalry with isu. Putting them in the conference isn't suddenly going to spark interest outside the state. They bring nothing to the table.

[Formerly Snayke]

Flattery will get you nowhere.

 

I dislike Illinois, but my first reaction to KU being in Big Ten was how good some of the potential basketball match-ups would be, and that includes the Illini.

 

I'm a way bigger basketball fan than I am football, but the facts are that football is driving the expansion, and adding a football zero like Kansas would likely cost the Big Ten member schools money. Each school added has to add more in revenue with their addition than each school is already making, and while Kansas has their fake fans throughout the country, they're not a strong enough draw to get any sort of market share for BTN subscriptions outside of the 8,000 people that actually live in Kansas. The only reason Missouri is even viable is because of the population of the state, and what it would mean to get all those subscribers at the conference footprint rate.

 

All good points.

[mul21]

 

Convenient that joining the Big Ten apparently expands ND's reach to South Bend city limits, but joining the ACC puts them in the heart of DC and NYC (where there are 0 ACC teams) You honestly think there are more ND fans in DC than there are in Chicago? How is Notre Dame going to continue this barn-storming schedule when they have to go play Duke, Clemson, Wake, and Virginia?

 

So you don't think there are ACC viewers in DC due to Virginia/Maryland? Or that there will be in NYC once Syracuse goes? I sort of agree with your premise, but I'm not convinced how important/unimportant those trips really are.

[Tracer Bullet]

I didn't say they had to play in MN to get Floyd. And clausen came to ND to play for Weis and no other reason. But yes, playing in CA every year helps recruiting in CA. Playing outside the Midwest helps recruiting outside the Midwest. ND's recruiting pool is shallow compared to most schools, so they need a broader geographic reach. The ACC, esp with Pitt and Cuse, gives ND a broader geographic reach in areas where there is more football talent. Playing in more places and cool games and venues helps recruiting.

 

Then why aren't you pushing for SEC if your concern is playing cool games in football hotbeds? I think you're greatly overselling the draw of these games, but it's really just a matter of opinion, so we can't go any farther on it.

 

Beyond BC, ND has relationships with Miami, FSU, UNC, GA Tech, and have played Maryland and Wake now this year. Again, established relationship with Pitt too (and Syracuse to a lesser extent). Outside um, msu, purdue (which is a stupid game that can't end soon enough), and psu, ND doesn't have games with other bigx schools. That's largely due to um's actions like 100 years ago (and many of those schools following suit), but you can't really think there's some sort of grudge there. UM was the one that kept taking ND off its schedule, not vice versa (and said again recently that they will be taking a break from the series after the current contract). They asked ND to join the big 10 and ND declined and now ND is the one holding some weird grudge?

 

I don't have a clue where you're going with that Michigan tangent, but you're really fudging the numbers if you're trying to include all those ACC teams. UNC? What have they played them once in the past 20 years?

 

Other than ease of travel for the teams, the bigx isn't a great fit. It's not like most ND fans live in SB either. The majority are probably in NYC and DC...what conference will reach those markets better?

 

Convenient that joining the Big Ten apparently expands ND's reach to South Bend city limits, but joining the ACC puts them in the heart of DC and NYC (where there are 0 ACC teams) You honestly think there are more ND fans in DC than there are in Chicago? How is Notre Dame going to continue this barn-storming schedule when they have to go play Duke, Clemson, Wake, and Virginia?

 

Oh ssr...the Michigan tangent came from your earlier post about this grudge Andy and other ND fans hold. It also explains that UM hasn't been on ND's schedule forever and will be taking another break soon. The other ACC teams have had series with ND recently, some longer or more frequently than others. But I can't remember the last time ND played a big 10 team other than the 4 I mentioned (there was a 2-4 game series with Nebraska when they were in the big 12). So ND has at least as much of a relationship with several ACC schools as they do with big ten schools.

 

My preference is independence so ND can keep going the way they're headed with scheduling. But as between playing 10 games between the states of Iowa and Ohio or playing 4-5 games a year outside that region, I'll take the latter. They can't play all over if they have a 9-game conference schedule, so that's not an option in the ND joins a conference scenario. I think the recruiting argument (playing outside the Midwest helps) is getting confused with the "which conference is preferable" argument.

 

Yes Chicago has a lot of ND fans, but those people are going to the 6-7 home games a year. They aren't worried about getting to see a game at Minnesota or NW. And the ACC reaches NYC and DC better than the bigx, that's the point. The ACC rotating its tourney at MSG seems to corroborate my claim.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

Convenient that joining the Big Ten apparently expands ND's reach to South Bend city limits, but joining the ACC puts them in the heart of DC and NYC (where there are 0 ACC teams) You honestly think there are more ND fans in DC than there are in Chicago? How is Notre Dame going to continue this barn-storming schedule when they have to go play Duke, Clemson, Wake, and Virginia?

 

So you don't think there are ACC viewers in DC due to Virginia/Maryland? Or that there will be in NYC once Syracuse goes? I sort of agree with your premise, but I'm not convinced how important/unimportant those trips really are.

 

I dont think the ACC fans are what he's referring to, its the ND fans, or potential ND fans

[Tarver]

With all this talk about four 16 team superconferences, I decided to try to make a preliminary list based on current rumors and geographical considerations. I'm assuming the Big East and the Big 12 are no more.

 

PAC-16

---------

UCLA

USC

Stanford

Cal

Oregon

Oregon St

Washington

Washington St

Arizona

Arizona St

Utah

Colorado

Texas

Texas Tech

Oklahoma

Oklahoma St

 

 

Big Ten

----------

Minnesota

Wisconsin

Michigan

Michigan St

Illinois

Northwestern

Iowa

Indiana

Purdue

Ohio St

Penn St

Nebraska

Iowa St

Notre Dame

Missouri

Kansas

 

 

SEC

---------

Florida

South Carolina

Alabama

Auburn

Mississippi

Mississippi St

LSU

Tennessee

Kentucky

Vanderbilt

Arkansas

Georgia

Texas A&M

TCU

West Virginia

Louisville

 

 

 

ACC

---------

Boston College

Maryland

Virginia Tech

Virginia

Duke

Wake Forest

North Carolina

NC State

Clemson

Georgia Tech

Miami

Florida St

Syracuse

Pittsburgh

Connecticut

Rutgers

 

 

 

 

Big East - basketball

----------

Georgetown

Villanova

St. Johns

Seton Hall

Marquette

Cincinnati

South Florida

DePaul

Providence

Xavier

Butler

Temple

 

 

Kansas St -> to MWC

Baylor -> to MWC

 

Cincinnati -> back to Conference USA

South Florida -> back to Conference USA

 

I also think the MWC will become the new Big East in terms of football dominance and will be able to get a BCS automatic bid.

 

Where does Memphis basketball fit into that scenario?

 

In the SEC so Tennessee can have a natural rival.

 

Makes sense, but Memphis is a much better program than Tennessee.

 

I'd rather see Memphis in the ACC or big 12. They might lose, but with Memphis you know you're always guaranteed a show. They're the anti-Spurs.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm willing to bet there's not a significant difference in Big Ten alums in NYC compared to ACC alums (Including Cuse and Pitt) in NYC (But this is really taking the argument to a non-important topic) Edited September 19, 2011 by SouthSideRyan

[chuckywang]

With all this talk about four 16 team superconferences, I decided to try to make a preliminary list based on current rumors and geographical considerations. I'm assuming the Big East and the Big 12 are no more.

 

PAC-16

---------

UCLA

USC

Stanford

Cal

Oregon

Oregon St

Washington

Washington St

Arizona

Arizona St

Utah

Colorado

Texas

Texas Tech

Oklahoma

Oklahoma St

 

 

Big Ten

----------

Minnesota

Wisconsin

Michigan

Michigan St

Illinois

Northwestern

Iowa

Indiana

Purdue

Ohio St

Penn St

Nebraska

Iowa St

Notre Dame

Missouri

Kansas

 

 

SEC

---------

Florida

South Carolina

Alabama

Auburn

Mississippi

Mississippi St

LSU

Tennessee

Kentucky

Vanderbilt

Arkansas

Georgia

Texas A&M

TCU

West Virginia

Louisville

 

 

 

ACC

---------

Boston College

Maryland

Virginia Tech

Virginia

Duke

Wake Forest

North Carolina

NC State

Clemson

Georgia Tech

Miami

Florida St

Syracuse

Pittsburgh

Connecticut

Rutgers

 

 

 

 

Big East - basketball

----------

Georgetown

Villanova

St. Johns

Seton Hall

Marquette

Cincinnati

South Florida

DePaul

Providence

Xavier

Butler

Temple

 

 

Kansas St -> to MWC

Baylor -> to MWC

 

Cincinnati -> back to Conference USA

South Florida -> back to Conference USA

 

I also think the MWC will become the new Big East in terms of football dominance and will be able to get a BCS automatic bid.

 

Where does Memphis basketball fit into that scenario?

 

Hmm, Memphis has an FBS football program and won't fit into the basketball only Big East. I say they stay in Conference USA. Not sure though.

 

EDIT: Crap, so does Temple. I'm gonna have to rethink that part.

Edited September 19, 2011 by chuckywang

[Andy]

I personally quite enjoy that I can't disagree with the "ND has, has, HAS to join the B1G" groupthink that SSR and most of this and other boards have without being shredded for some sort of grudge against the conference. Yes, the B1G is not my favorite league in the universe, but Mariner's Revenge has echoed most of the reasons I have for preferring the ACC (the biggest being that they'd probably let ND keep the NBC contract). If the B1G was the best thing for Notre Dame, I'd be all for it, but there's very little reason to believe it is outside of regional convenience, and we've seen that that means damn near nothing.

 

One thing that MR hasn't yet said but I suspect is in the works is at least one of the Michigan schools trying to drop ND entirely once the B1G goes to a 9-game schedule. Like he said, UM already wants a break from the series and MSU is taking a break from ND in 14-15 as well. This is not a good thing, but ND could easily replace them with more of the travel games that MR likes with schools that don't have as much history with ND as either of those two but at least still very much on the radar (more games against Texas, for instance, although that would be an absolute best-case scenario).

[Tracer Bullet]

I'm willing to bet there's not a significant difference in Big Ten alums in NYC compared to ACC alums (Including Cuse and Pitt) in NYC (But this is really taking the argument to a non-important topic)

 

In total numbers? There are also exponentially more big ten alums out there bc the schools are massive (and alumnus also includes former students who don't graduate, which gives big ten schools another several hundred thousand).

[minnesotacubsfan]

I'm willing to bet there's not a significant difference in Big Ten alums in NYC compared to ACC alums (Including Cuse and Pitt) in NYC (But this is really taking the argument to a non-important topic)

 

In total numbers? There are also exponentially more big ten alums out there bc the schools are massive (and alumnus also includes former students who don't graduate, which gives big ten schools another several hundred thousand).

 

painting Big Ten alumns as drop-out failures is hurting my feelings, Richard. Its sooo unkind.

[Tracer Bullet]

I personally quite enjoy that I can't disagree with the "ND has, has, HAS to join the B1G" groupthink that SSR and most of this and other boards have without being shredded for some sort of grudge against the conference. Yes, the B1G is not my favorite league in the universe, but Mariner's Revenge has echoed most of the reasons I have for preferring the ACC (the biggest being that they'd probably let ND keep the NBC contract). If the B1G was the best thing for Notre Dame, I'd be all for it, but there's very little reason to believe it is outside of regional convenience, and we've seen that that means damn near nothing.

 

One thing that MR hasn't yet said but I suspect is in the works is at least one of the Michigan schools trying to drop ND entirely once the B1G goes to a 9-game schedule. Like he said, UM already wants a break from the series and MSU is taking a break from ND in 14-15 as well. This is not a good thing, but ND could easily replace them with more of the travel games that MR likes with schools that don't have as much history with ND as either of those two but at least still very much on the radar (more games against Texas, for instance, although that would be an absolute best-case scenario).

 

Yeah, the rumor/expectation is that um and maybe msu will drop ND entirely. I don't much care one way or the other. I like playing those schools usually but opening up those 2-3 September dates would make scheduling other quality teams infinitely easier. The big ten's insistence on playing ND in September has made it harder to play schools that will come to ND, but not when it's cold (SEC teams, primarily).

[Tarver]

Yeah Chuck, but nobody goes to Memphis or Temple to play football.

 

They're NBA mills. And they'll be competitive/dominant in any conference they want to go.

[Tarver]

And I love how everyone keeps forgetting Indiana in all this.

 

Just keep sleeping on us...

[Tracer Bullet]

I'm willing to bet there's not a significant difference in Big Ten alums in NYC compared to ACC alums (Including Cuse and Pitt) in NYC (But this is really taking the argument to a non-important topic)

 

In total numbers? There are also exponentially more big ten alums out there bc the schools are massive (and alumnus also includes former students who don't graduate, which gives big ten schools another several hundred thousand).

 

painting Big Ten alumns as drop-out failures is hurting my feelings, Richard. Its sooo unkind.

 

It's not that they're all drop out failures. But if you're making an argument based on total alumni base and you're starting with numbers as skewed as ACC v big ten, I assume you're going the extra step of including people that attended those schools but didn't graduate.

[Tracer Bullet]

Yeah Chuck, but nobody goes to Memphis or Temple to play football.

 

They're NBA mills. And they'll be competitive/dominant in any conference they want to go.

 

Temple is an NBA mill?

[minnesotacubsfan]

I personally quite enjoy that I can't disagree with the "ND has, has, HAS to join the B1G" groupthink that SSR and most of this and other boards have without being shredded for some sort of grudge against the conference. Yes, the B1G is not my favorite league in the universe, but Mariner's Revenge has echoed most of the reasons I have for preferring the ACC (the biggest being that they'd probably let ND keep the NBC contract). If the B1G was the best thing for Notre Dame, I'd be all for it, but there's very little reason to believe it is outside of regional convenience, and we've seen that that means damn near nothing.

 

One thing that MR hasn't yet said but I suspect is in the works is at least one of the Michigan schools trying to drop ND entirely once the B1G goes to a 9-game schedule. Like he said, UM already wants a break from the series and MSU is taking a break from ND in 14-15 as well. This is not a good thing, but ND could easily replace them with more of the travel games that MR likes with schools that don't have as much history with ND as either of those two but at least still very much on the radar (more games against Texas, for instance, although that would be an absolute best-case scenario).

 

Yeah, the rumor/expectation is that um and maybe msu will drop ND entirely. I don't much care one way or the other. I like playing those schools usually but opening up those 2-3 September dates would make scheduling other quality teams infinitely easier. The big ten's insistence on playing ND in September has made it harder to play schools that will come to ND, but not when it's cold (SEC teams, primarily).

 

but by joining the big ten and scheduling pn st, os and Michigan in November/Oct, doesn't that open up September up for those supposed wanton SEC team?

[minnesotacubsfan]

I'm willing to bet there's not a significant difference in Big Ten alums in NYC compared to ACC alums (Including Cuse and Pitt) in NYC (But this is really taking the argument to a non-important topic)

 

In total numbers? There are also exponentially more big ten alums out there bc the schools are massive (and alumnus also includes former students who don't graduate, which gives big ten schools another several hundred thousand).

 

painting Big Ten alumns as drop-out failures is hurting my feelings, Richard. Its sooo unkind.

 

It's not that they're all drop out failures. But if you're making an argument based on total alumni base and you're starting with numbers as skewed as ACC v big ten, I assume you're going the extra step of including people that attended those schools but didn't graduate.

 

just say it, you have no respect for me since I live on the west side of puget sound. you've already assumed the Seattle aire-of authority.

[minnesotacubsfan]

And I love how everyone keeps forgetting Indiana in all this.

 

Just keep sleeping on us...

 

 

Indi-who?

[Tarver]

Yeah Chuck, but nobody goes to Memphis or Temple to play football.

 

They're NBA mills. And they'll be competitive/dominant in any conference they want to go.

 

Temple is an NBA mill?

 

Not really, but they produce more basketball players than they do football.

 

See Chuck's post above.

[Tarver]

And I love how everyone keeps forgetting Indiana in all this.

 

Just keep sleeping on us...

 

 

Indi-who?

 

I thought architects had longer memories.

[Tracer Bullet]

I'm willing to bet there's not a significant difference in Big Ten alums in NYC compared to ACC alums (Including Cuse and Pitt) in NYC (But this is really taking the argument to a non-important topic)

 

In total numbers? There are also exponentially more big ten alums out there bc the schools are massive (and alumnus also includes former students who don't graduate, which gives big ten schools another several hundred thousand).

 

painting Big Ten alumns as drop-out failures is hurting my feelings, Richard. Its sooo unkind.

 

It's not that they're all drop out failures. But if you're making an argument based on total alumni base and you're starting with numbers as skewed as ACC v big ten, I assume you're going the extra step of including people that attended those schools but didn't graduate.

 

just say it, you have no respect for me since I live on the west side of puget sound. you've already assumed the Seattle aire-of authority.

 

West of Puget Sound? You live in Japan?

[minnesotacubsfan]

just say it, you have no respect for me since I live on the west side of puget sound. you've already assumed the Seattle aire-of authority.

 

West of Puget Sound? You live in Japan?

 

 

Konichiwa!