Re: Bears Offseason Thread

[jersey cubs fan]

As far as last year I'll make any bet you want that it wasn't the peak of his career with the Vikings.

 

Is somebody even considering offering up that bet?

[rawaction]

I'm a big fan of Harvin. I figured he would be the 2nd best WR in last year's class (after Maclin). People didn't think he was a good fit for the Bears because he was too similar to Hester. But I couldn't figure how that was a bad thing.

[RedFlash]

Percy was thrown to 91 times and had 15 carries despite missing basically two games with migraines. Shank was targeted 79 times.

 

As far as last year I'll make any bet you want that it wasn't the peak of his career with the Vikings. You name it. He was a 21 year old rookie WR who didn't play in a pro-style offense and wasn't even strictly a WR there. He still has a lot of untouched potential and will start to fade out Berrian in a few years.

 

I never said he was a bad player, and I never said he didn't have "untapped potential", I'm just saying that in Minnesota he will be the 2nd option, at best, behind Rice. I'm not convinced that Harvin is anything more then the Vikings version of Devin Hester. He should fade out Berrian, but the Vikes still have Pianscoe who get his fair share of catches. With Favre I do not know if Harvin will break the 1000 yard barrier as a WR(I said I don't know if he will, not that he doesn't have the ability), at least without giving up his KR duties. And if Favre does retire, hahahaha, then there is a better then 60% chance that Harvin won't break that barrier, especially with either Sage or Jackson as QB. Now if you eventually land McNabb, then everything changes.

[hawkeyecub]

As far as last year I'll make any bet you want that it wasn't the peak of his career with the Vikings.

 

Is somebody even considering offering up that bet?

 

so what you saw with Harvin this year, could very well be the peak of what he does for the Vikings

[Soul]

I could see Harvin eclipsing Rice eventually. But he has to stay healthy.

[RedFlash]

I could see Harvin eclipsing Rice eventually. But he has to stay healthy.

 

That and him staying off the love weed.

[DivineBovine]

I can't understand how people can so confidently claim that the Bears receivers are crap and make comparisons with other receivers on teams with real passing offenses. Hester, Knox, and Aromashodu are young players who have never played on a team with a real passing game.

 

There are tons of examples of receivers who have been different players in different systems. Moss with the Raiders and then Moss with the Patriots. Wes Welker pre and post Patriots. Any receiver that has ever played on Peyton Manning's Colts. So fitting that Wes Welker and Deion Branch are brought up in this thread. Deion Branch was a way better receiver than Welker in 2005 when he played on the Patriots and Welker didn't. Look at the stats.

 

It's simply not fair to call out any receiver that played under Ron [expletive] Turner. Give them another year at least before calling them horrible.

[tfarks]

I am more optimistic with the receivers than others. A lot of what they need to improve upon is coachable, better route running, not giving up on the route, more experience overall and with Cutler. They have plenty of speed, which is always dangerous. And if DA continues to improve they have a sizable target alongside Olsen whom Cutler is comfortable with. They just need Martz to instill those improvements, as well as an offense that puts them in space and allows them to run after the catch and use their speed downfield. The best thing for that is better pass protection. The run game won't flourish, it has regressed and with Martz in town I doubt it improves...unless Forte gets more aggressive and harder to bring down. Forte will need to catch balls and block, two things he is solid at. Kreutz has said Forte is tied for the best blocking RB's he has ever played with.

 

Martz and Cutler will make the passing game work without a legit #1. Offensively, what they need is an upgrade at OL with one of the guard positions and solidifying someone in the RT spot. Cutler is going to need time, Martz will use a lot of 3 wide sets with Hester in the slot. I'll be interested to see how he incorporates Olsen into the offense.

 

Outside of OL, the defense must improve substantially. The Bears were absolutely blown out what 4 times last year? Just didn't have a chance to stop the opposing team. Since Marinelli is strongly in Lovie's philosophy, unfortunately we won't see the Ron Rivera version of the Cover 2. This defense needs a serious injection of talent, mostly with the DL and safeties. We have to hope Angelo can strike his 2nd day defensive draft choices. He has to find a defensive starter in rounds 3 or 4. Maybe Alafava can improve enough to be that starter but the safety play has really hurt this team since Brown left. That's why we saw Lovie changing things up back there late in the season, it was obvious.

 

Concerning the DL, Briggs reported that they are in negotiations with Ogunleye to bring him back. Which is a smart move provided they don't pay too much. Adams passed away and Anderson is relatively useless. But that leaves us with the same group, not to mention Ogunleye is 33 and coming off a season where he got 6 1/2 sacks all season, and 2 were in the first game against the now backup RT for the Packers. Looking at this FA list article: http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81423860&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true I don't know who the Bears would bring in and what they are willing to pay, especially if the go FA for the OL. Gonna have to hit a strike in the draft or expect big things from Jarron Gilbert who is admittedly a wildcard with his talent and Marinelli's coaching. Perhaps a boost for the pass rush there?

 

Basically my ramble is me thinking the offense will be fine, pretty good depending on the improvement with the OL. But the defense has a lot more to worry about. How much can an aging Urlacher bring back to the D? We got too comfortable having a strong D from year to year, a lot of pieces need to fall in place for this unit to achieve. Facing the Packers and Vikings next year, this offseason likely won't cut it. Hopefully we are all underrating Marinelli as DC. This offseason is huge for Lovie & Angelo, hopefully that makes good things happen.

[jersey cubs fan]

As things stand now I think both groups, offense and defense, have a decent chance to be in the upper half, although not quite top ten. Neither is a lock though. If they can be somewhere around the 12th ranked offense and defense, this is a playoff team, if either struggles, they are doomed and Lovie is hopefully gone. The one wildcard is if the offense outperforms. It would take a lot of things breaking right, but the offense could carry the team next year if Martz and Cutler each do their best. It would not be a miracle, but it's going to take a lot of work, and luck.

[rawaction]

I don't know if the defense or offense has more to worry about. The offense is young, and plenty of players may not develop like they should. The jury is still out on Williams at LT, Aromashodu as the top WR, Forte at RB and several other positions on the offense. Defensively, most of the guys have proven they can play. But it has been 2-3 years since they have played well as a unit and will never be at the top of their games again at most of the key positions.

 

Even with all the questions about the defense, I personally don't care much what happens on that side of the ball. NO is getting fitted for rings with the 25th ranked defense in the league. Arizona lost the year before in the final seconds with a similar defense. Sure the Bears got blown out 4 times this year. But that means they DIDN'T get blown out 12 times. A strong offense (top 12 in the league) and they could have legitimately won 10 games. They finished a middle of the pack 17th in total defense, which is good enough and very repeatable.

 

This team will go as far as the offense takes them, so I'd say the offense has more to worry about. I mentioned earlier that a top 12 offense would lead to a lot of wins. I know this will never be the Colts, Saints, or even the Vikes and Packers offense. However, this team has or can reasonably field enough talent to be on the level of the Giants, Ravens, Titans, and Steelers. Giants had similarly unproven WRs going into this year. The Ravens have no talent at WR, and had an unproven QB. The Titans were in a similar boat, and were a top offense because of an elite RB. The Steelers had a mediocre OL and a below average run game.

 

So, in all, I think the Bears have a legit shot to be a playoff team next year. They were 17th in passing last year, and that's with arguably the worst OL, OC, and WRs in the game. OC is already improved. OL may be improved naturally by moving Williams to LT and Omiyale developing, but bringing in a guy could drastically change things. The WRs were probably the youngest in the league and should naturally improve also. Better OL would improve the run game. But even if it doesn't drastically improve, the Colts were great this year w/ the worst run game and #2 passing attack. They were 14th overall offensively. I think the Bears can do the same with a top 10 passing attack, even in the run game is in the bottom 10. And keep in mind, Mike Martz got Jon Kitna led offenses to be top 10 in passing for 2 years.

[dew1679666265]

Hester, Knox, and Aromashodu are young players who have never played on a team with a real passing game.

 

He obviously wasn't a main contributor, but Aromashodu did play for the Colts and received some snaps for a year or two.

[Sosa21MVP]

Speaking on 670 The Score (WSCR-AM) in Chicago, new Bears offensive coordinator Mike Martz praised TE Greg Olsen for his versatility but also said that a primary duty will be blocking. "He's a different tight end than I've had in the past, but all tight ends, their first responsibility, they have to put their hand down on the line of scrimmage and be a successful blocker. They have to be able to do that job and do it well, and then they move into receiving," Martz said. "To just skip by that and say, 'Okay, he's a terrific receiver,' then you may as well just put another wide receiver in there. And he can do these things, and that's where [defenses] have a really difficult time with a tight end that is as well-rounded as he is, that can move around and get isolated on 'backers, can put his hand on the ground and block a defensive end yet get down the field and stretch the defense."

 

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/players/playerpage/502524

[Sammy Sofa]

Was Olsen much of a blocker in college?

[jersey cubs fan]

Was Olsen much of a blocker in college?

 

I believe it's accurate to reply, not at all.

[Sammy Sofa]

Faaaaaannntastic.

[WrigleyField 22]

Oh no...

[Butterscup1679666578]

i can't wait until we trade a great tight end for a 4th round draft pick. [expletive] all my teams.

[davell]

The one thing that gives me some hope that Olsen won't be dealt, is that he and Cutler are tight and i don't see Martz pissing off Jay THIS early into their relationship.

 

On another note, if Reggie Bush is cut because of his 8 mill salary for next year and New Orleans doesn't want him back at a reduced rate, PFT threw out the possibility that he's Martz' kind of player......I'd be fine with going after him, but not at nearly the salary I think he'll be wanting.

[Banedon]

I dunno...I think that just Martz focusing on a weakness of a player, and I don't think that's a bad thing. Olsen is a bad blocker...that's no secret. And if Martz is able to turn him into a good blocker, it's gonna change the way teams will play him. He'll be able to help with pass protection, or run blocking...and yet can sneak through on occasion and get open for a big play.

 

I don't think what Martz said is that he isn't going to use Olsen's receiving ability...merely that he has to add the blocking dimension to his game. And I don't think he's wrong.

[jersey cubs fan]

Olsen hasn't come close to living up to his hype, expectations or draft status. I wouldn't be disappointed if they got some value for him in a trade. I think with Martz around it's possible, although with Angelo taking him in the 1st and probably getting lucky to recieve a 2nd for him, it remains doubtful.

[SpongeWorthy]

The one thing that gives me some hope that Olsen won't be dealt, is that he and Cutler are tight and i don't see Martz pissing off Jay THIS early into their relationship.

 

On another note, if Reggie Bush is cut because of his 8 mill salary for next year and New Orleans doesn't want him back at a reduced rate, PFT threw out the possibility that he's Martz' kind of player......I'd be fine with going after him, but not at nearly the salary I think he'll be wanting.

 

I don't think there's any reason the Saints wouldn't want him back at a reduced rate. He's a perfect fit there with Sean Payton and Brees and I think he'd probably take less than market value to stay. But if he gets on the market the Bears should definitely inquire.

[DivineBovine]

The one thing that gives me some hope that Olsen won't be dealt, is that he and Cutler are tight and i don't see Martz pissing off Jay THIS early into their relationship.

 

On another note, if Reggie Bush is cut because of his 8 mill salary for next year and New Orleans doesn't want him back at a reduced rate, PFT threw out the possibility that he's Martz' kind of player......I'd be fine with going after him, but not at nearly the salary I think he'll be wanting.

 

I don't think there's any reason the Saints wouldn't want him back at a reduced rate. He's a perfect fit there with Sean Payton and Brees and I think he'd probably take less than market value to stay. But if he gets on the market the Bears should definitely inquire.

 

 

 

I would never want to go after a player as overrated as Reggie Bush. It just means someone is going to overpay for him. He might be the most overrated player in the league right now.

 

During every single freaking Saints game, all you hear about from the commentators is Reggie Bush. He's not close to the best running back on the team, and he's not close to the best receiver on the team. And he's hardly a stellar return guy. He's just a RB who is decent when he comes out of the backfield and catches the ball. Big deal. That's only really valuable if he's a great runner, which he's not.

 

No thanks. I'll take a pass.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I think it would be easier to overpay for Reggie Bush then it would to get a good deal with Reggie Bush.

 

Bush on the Bears = Pipe dream

[jersey cubs fan]

 

I would never want to go after a player as overrated as Reggie Bush. It just means someone is going to overpay for him. He might be the most overrated player in the league right now.

 

He's been in the discussion for that award, however, he's taken a hit in reputation the past couple years, and despite some highlights this season, he is not all that highly rated right now.

[Sammy Sofa]

 

I would never want to go after a player as overrated as Reggie Bush. It just means someone is going to overpay for him. He might be the most overrated player in the league right now.

 

He's been in the discussion for that award, however, he's taken a hit in reputation the past couple years, and despite some highlights this season, he is not all that highly rated right now.

 

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be anyone overrating him these days except for some Saints fans.