Re: Bears Offseason Thread

[hawkeyecub]

Again, same thing with season tickets, no benefit, no service good or entertainment. What you are paying for is the hope of being entertained, whereas here you are paying for the hope of being listened to.

 

You're paying for a seat to watch the game. Just like paying for a movie ticket. Whether the game/movie/concert sucks is irrelevant. You paid money to watch an NFL game and received that entertainment.

 

Sure you're paying for the hope of being listened to but it's not going to do anything. It's a billboard in the suburbs. It's just an antiquated, pointless exercise that I think is dumb.

[jersey cubs fan]

Again, same thing with season tickets, no benefit, no service good or entertainment. What you are paying for is the hope of being entertained, whereas here you are paying for the hope of being listened to.

 

You're paying for a seat to watch the game. Just like paying for a movie ticket. Whether the game/movie/concert sucks is irrelevant. You paid money to watch an NFL game and received that entertainment.

 

Sure you're paying for the hope of being listened to but it's not going to do anything. It's a billboard in the suburbs. It's just an antiquated, pointless exercise that I think is dumb.

 

It is hardly irrelevant whether the game/movie sucked. Sure, legally they can hold onto your money, but it's not unprecedented to get money back when the product doesn't match expectations.

 

They got the attention they apparently wanted, so I'm not sure how antiquated it could be. I'm sure people in charge have at least heard of it. Whether they will do anything is beside the point. In the end a large group of people spent relatively small individual sums of money to make a statement. You can be a jerk and call them stupid all you want, but it seems to me that goals were met.

[hawkeyecub]

Thinking that it's a stupid use of money means I'm being a jerk?

[wekse]

Thinking that it's a stupid use of money means I'm being a jerk?

 

no, you being a vikings fan makes you a jerk.

[wekse]

pretty sure that's where he's coming from.

[DivineBovine]

It's not hard to tell the receivers are pretty much an abomination. Maybe they have potential but they're pretty awful as a group right now. There isn't an elite athlete in the bunch. Hester and Knox can fly but they're midgets. Aromoshadu is probably the best combination of size and speed but who knows about him really. I haven't been impressed with Bennett. He's not physical at all.

 

There surely isn't a receiver on the roster who would crack the starting lineup of any team that has a good passing attack.

 

How many times have the receivers caught a ball in traffic? How many times have they cut off routes that led to incompletions or picks? Can you recall a play where a receiver threw a good block downfield to spring a big run? These things just haven't happened. It's a cliche but there aren't any guys making plays.

 

The line sucks. The run blocking more than the pass blocking. And some (most?) of the problems can be attributed to Turner and a lack of coaching for Cutler but the receivers have been horrific as well. Watch an Eagles, Steelers, or Packers game...those guys aren't protected any better than Jay. But they're good QBs, mobile, and they have receivers that other teams actually fear. It makes a huge difference.

 

 

I personally find it hard to evaluate receivers. Its easy when you have a guy like Fitzgerald who brings the ball down in traffic and breaks tackles, but usually that's not the case.

 

What I do know is that so much depends on who's throwing them the ball, how well they are in tune with the QB, and how the play is designed. Everyone knows that an offensive scheme and a good QB can make a receiver. Peyton Manning always seem to have 3 great receivers, even when they recycle. It's not like the Colts have great scouting for receivers or amazing luck. Look at what Moss and Welker did before they went to the Pats.

 

What bothers me most about the Bears receivers is not the inability to act like Larry Fitzgerald. They are never in position to make a play. They never catch the ball on the run and get yards after the catch, unless they outrun everyone and Cutler happens to hit them with a good pass. Otherwise, its pathetic short dumps and jump balls in traffic. A great way to utilize two of the fastest receivers in the game.

 

It's pretty clear that the offensive line isn't giving Cutler a lot of time, but I put the bulk of the blame on the pathetic offensive design. You could put Moss, Wayne and Fitzgerald on the team, and I'm not sure how much better things would be. The Bears offensive scheme can probably make any receiver and QB look bad. Cutler has to make precise passes with no margin for error, and when its executed perfectly, you get a marginal gain.

 

Hopefully, after the idiot currently running the offense is gone and the receivers mature a bit and improve communication, things are workable. I will hold my thoughts on the receivers until then.

[cubweiser03]

Quarterbacks don't regress to the degree Cutler has this year without injury or age being a factor and neither are the case for Jay. So its a combination of OC, OL, WR. And i would say the bulk of the problem is OC followed by the OL and then a small problem being the youth of the WR. And why has Olsen regressed so much this year too? Olsen is as a good as Dallas Clark. Fn Turner.

[hawkeyecub]

Quarterbacks don't regress to the degree Cutler has this year without injury or age being a factor and neither are the case for Jay. So its a combination of OC, OL, WR. And i would say the bulk of the problem is OC followed by the OL and then a small problem being the youth of the WR.

 

When your o-line can't run block or pass block, there aren't many magic plays the OC can call. On top of that you have a QB who has made a ton of bad decisions and shaky WR's. To put the majority of the blame on Turner is just off base in my opinion.

 

And why has Olsen regressed so much this year too? Olsen is as a good as Dallas Clark. Fn Turner.

 

What?

[Magnetic Curses]

but not as good as papa shango or whatever his name is.

[Flames24Rulz]

And why has Olsen regressed so much this year too? Olsen is as a good as Dallas Clark. Fn Turner.

 

That's funny.

 

Now before I go on, don't shoot me please. I think most of you know that I'm a pretty respectable Packer fan. From my point of view, the Bears have a lack of talent. Lovie has made more than his fair share of stupid decisions this year with in-game coaching but ultimately, there is a lack of talent on both sides of the football. That falls on Angelo and if one of the guys is going to be fired, he's the one to go first. You can make the very logical argument that both of them should be fired but this mess is Angelo's fault. Even the most loyal Cutler apologists have to admit that Denver robbed the Bears blind back in April and then Angelo followed that up by acquiring a tremendous bust in Gaines Adams for a second round pick. So you have a team full of holes and now you're not going to be picking in the draft until the 3rd round this coming April. Bravo, Jerry.

 

Look at all of the positions on the team. The Bears have a bad offensive line, a horrid LB corps without Urlacher and a secondary that is pretty bad too. The WR's aren't very good, but that really isn't even close to problem number one. Lovie's getting blamed for that? I'm not buying it. Forte doesn't get many holes to run through but he's one of the softer backs in the league when he actually does get a hole. He doesn't really break many tackles, either. The depth after Forte is laughably bad. And again, there's no other way around it. Cutler's been horrible this year. I'll just go back to point out how much Grossman was ridiculed back during his Super Bowl season, yet he still threw three more TD passes than INT's. No, that's not good at all but how people still continue to make excuses for Cutler is beyond me.

 

Free Agency isn't a good way to go if you're going to fix a mess. For every good pickup that you find on the market, you have guys like Adalius Thomas, Bernard Berrian, and Nate Clements out there where they're not even close to being worth the amount of money they're being paid. It's very arguable in my mind that Angelo should be fired for the Adams trade alone.

 

So go ahead and fire Lovie if you must, but there's not a lot of coaches in the league that could turn this team around with the talent that's currently on it.

[SpongeWorthy]

I'd say you're like 80% right there. Angelo did get a lot of talent outside of the skill positions in building up the 05 and 06 teams (you don't get that sort of insane special teams and defensive production without really, really gifted athletes) but failed to replace them when age and attrition set in. The offensive coaching and lack of offensive play makers all falls on Angelo and now the defensive/ST aren't there to hide it.

[UMFan83]

See I want to agree with you but a very similar team to this one went 9-7 last year, and blew a couple games late that they should have won. Maybe that year was a fluke, maybe this one is, maybe it's in the middle. They have some pieces, and we'll never quite know how good they could have been with Briggs, Urlacher and Pisa at LB all year (I don't think they give up 45 to cincinnati, 41 to arizona, etc if they were in)

 

But you are right, the Bears depth definitely got exposed this year, and that's all 100% on Angelo. He built a paper thin team that even the "paper" wasn't close to an elite team. We can go on all day about the errors the Bears made, but I think they have enough talent when healthy to be somewhere in the 13-17 range in terms of pure talent rankings. Factor in injuries, Turner, Lovie, etc and they look awful.

[Guest]

They all have done a horrible job since the Super Bowl. They thought too highly of themselves after the Super Bowl run and made countless stupid decisions. As SpongeWorthy said, they failed to account for aging, general decline in talent or attrition (be it from injury or free agency). Even during the Super Bowl run, a spectacular defense, special teams and limited injuries covered up the many weaknesses.

 

They should all be fired. But I have no faith they'd be replaced appropriately.

[Magnetic Curses]

And why has Olsen regressed so much this year too? Olsen is as a good as Dallas Clark. Fn Turner.

 

That's funny.

 

Now before I go on, don't shoot me please. I think most of you know that I'm a pretty respectable Packer fan. From my point of view, the Bears have a lack of talent. Lovie has made more than his fair share of stupid decisions this year with in-game coaching but ultimately, there is a lack of talent on both sides of the football. That falls on Angelo and if one of the guys is going to be fired, he's the one to go first. You can make the very logical argument that both of them should be fired but this mess is Angelo's fault. Even the most loyal Cutler apologists have to admit that Denver robbed the Bears blind back in April and then Angelo followed that up by acquiring a tremendous bust in Gaines Adams for a second round pick. So you have a team full of holes and now you're not going to be picking in the draft until the 3rd round this coming April. Bravo, Jerry.

 

okay, i think it's ridiculous to judge the trade just yet. if cutler doesn't live up to the hype with the bears, angelo gets a pass on this one. he made an attempt at a franchise quarterback, which is all i've asked from the bears' front office. "robbed the bears blind" is a little premature, especially considering what kind of players the bears have gotten in the first round recently. i thought it was a pretty safe bet, parlay two picks and an average to below average quarterback into a franchise quarterback. seems logical to me. the gaines adams deal hasn't made a lot of sense.

 

Look at all of the positions on the team. The Bears have a bad offensive line, a horrid LB corps without Urlacher and a secondary that is pretty bad too. The WR's aren't very good, but that really isn't even close to problem number one. Lovie's getting blamed for that? I'm not buying it. Forte doesn't get many holes to run through but he's one of the softer backs in the league when he actually does get a hole. He doesn't really break many tackles, either. The depth after Forte is laughably bad. And again, there's no other way around it. Cutler's been horrible this year. I'll just go back to point out how much Grossman was ridiculed back during his Super Bowl season, yet he still threw three more TD passes than INT's. No, that's not good at all but how people still continue to make excuses for Cutler is beyond me.

 

okay, now you're showing some ignorance. the bears are deep and pretty good at LB, it's one of the few strengths on the team. i'm not sure what kind of talking points you've been paying attention to, but you haven't been watching.

 

grossman was ridiculed at a time when 3-step drops weren't required. the line has aged badly, they no longer have pro-bowlers that can keep heat off of the qb. grossman was bad at feeling pressure and managed to goof up a great thing. the run blocking sucks now, kreutz and garza are no longer serviceable. peyton manning would have trouble winning with this bunch of rejects.

 

Free Agency isn't a good way to go if you're going to fix a mess. For every good pickup that you find on the market, you have guys like Adalius Thomas, Bernard Berrian, and Nate Clements out there where they're not even close to being worth the amount of money they're being paid. It's very arguable in my mind that Angelo should be fired for the Adams trade alone.

 

free agency is the way to go to rebuild the line, which is the most important thing. there are young linemen out there that will be available. the defensive line is something totally different, but the o-line will be addressable in the offseason.

 

So go ahead and fire Lovie if you must, but there's not a lot of coaches in the league that could turn this team around with the talent that's currently on it.

 

lovie is running an exploitable system at this point. his players don't match it. they're getting old and slow and incapable of swarming to the ball and closing ground like they once did. it will be easier to replace one man and one system than all of the parts within it. it was going to happen inevitably, there are better defensive schemes out there that don't expire with the players like the tampa-2.

[rawaction]

The Bears have become a victim of their own success. Angelo put together a team that was crap, made them a contender in '05 and a Superbowl participant in '06. Lovie almost instantly had success with his system. However, that success led to the poor decisions to get rid of Rivera as the DC and promoting Babich. It led to overconfident personnel decisions, as Angelo basically punted on early picks because he had so much faith in his ability to find late round talent. I don't know if this is still the case, but there were only 5 teams that exclusively did their own scouting a few years ago. Colts, Ravens, Steelers, Patriots, and Bears. The Bears scouting thought it was elite like those teams and was not.

 

Those poor personnel decisions included the Bears allowing guys like Berrian, Ayanbadejo, Thomas Jones, Tank Johnson, and Cedric Benson to go for basically nothing. Also included was blind faith in aging players like John Tait, Fred Miller, and Kreutz; and the reliance on mediocre players who could have been easily upgraded or pushed with young competition such as Vasher, St. Clair, Hillenmeyer (until late last year), and the QB position (until this March). Angelo did a great job of building this team.....but he stopped. He signed his young nucleus on defense long-term, but failed to realize they weren't always going to be young.

 

The Bears have consistently been a day late and a dollar short since the SB. Late on trying to upgrade the OL, resulting in a patchwork unit consisting of veterans on their last leg, a rookie who was a reach, and an overpaid FA pickup. Late on getting quality backups on the DL and DBs. A dollar short on Bazuin, Okwo, Wolfe, G. Adams. Late on recognizing the need for a franchise QB. A dollar short on realizing even the most talented QBs need help from the line and WRs.

[Magnetic Curses]

shanahan wants the job. if we want to give it to him it might be wise to fire lovie sooner rather than later.

[Soul]

shanahan wants the job. if we want to give it to him it might be wise to fire lovie sooner rather than later.

I really believe both Lovie and Jerry must go in order to get Shanahan or Cowher.

[Mark Priors Calves]

The Mike Heimerdinger to replace Lovie Smith bandwagon has picked up some speed in the Chicago media over the past week or so. If the Bears do replace Lovie, and are leery about throwing huge money at a big name replacement, I think Meimerdinger might be the guy.

[rawaction]

The Mike Heimerdinger to replace Lovie Smith bandwagon has picked up some speed in the Chicago media over the past week or so. If the Bears do replace Lovie, and are leery about throwing huge money at a big name replacement, I think Meimerdinger might be the guy.

 

Not a bad choice at all. If the Bears do fire Lovie, I think this is the route they will go. They probably won't want to pay Lovie AND another coach big money. Heimerdinger has worked with Cutler before and at this point, getting Cutler someone he is familiar with is probably the best way to make sure his interest doesn't stay gone.

 

But I think a coaching change is necessary at this point. We have seen in recent history that coaching changes can turn a franchise around very quickly. Recently, we've seen teams like Arizona, Atlanta, Baltimore, Miami and to some extent SF (decent but not contending), Pittsburgh (1 down season to playoffs then title), and Denver (from ok to good).

 

And as horrible as this season has been, the Bears aren't that far off. Superbowl, 7-9, 9-7, and this year they were pretty close to beating GB x 2, ATL, and SF which would completely change the season. At this point, the best hope for the Bears is that Cutler, Urlacher, and Tommie are motivated by the change; the new staff will develop Gilbert, Melton, Iglesias, and Moore to the point that they are usable parts; and the new offense allows Forte and the WR group to maximize their abilities.

[dew1679666265]

The Mike Heimerdinger to replace Lovie Smith bandwagon has picked up some speed in the Chicago media over the past week or so. If the Bears do replace Lovie, and are leery about throwing huge money at a big name replacement, I think Meimerdinger might be the guy.

 

There's actually a lot of talk that Heimerdinger should be the Titans' coach next year. I think he'd be a solid choice for a team not willing to pay the top coaches the money.

[rawaction]

The more I read about Heimerdinger, the more I like him as the next Bears coach. This is a new position for the Bears. They have the QB. Now they have to give him everything he needs to be successful. I have campaigned for a coach Cutler has worked with in the past, and Heimerdinger would definitely fit. He was the Asst. Head coach under Shanahan and if he was smart he picked his brain often. So, the transition to head coach should be easier than if he was just a coordinator. He is credited with developing Cutler. He has worked 7-8 years under Jeff Fisher, who I think is the best coach in the NFL. He developed Steve McNair into an MVP QB. He helped Kerry Collins find the fountain of youth last year and has helped Vince Young take a step forward this year.

[dew1679666265]

The more I read about Heimerdinger, the more I like him as the next Bears coach. This is a new position for the Bears. They have the QB. Now they have to give him everything he needs to be successful. I have campaigned for a coach Cutler has worked with in the past, and Heimerdinger would definitely fit. He was the Asst. Head coach under Shanahan and if he was smart he picked his brain often. So, the transition to head coach should be easier than if he was just a coordinator. He is credited with developing Cutler. He has worked 7-8 years under Jeff Fisher, who I think is the best coach in the NFL. He developed Steve McNair into an MVP QB. He helped Kerry Collins find the fountain of youth last year and has helped Vince Young take a step forward this year.

 

He definitely should get a head coaching job. He's a very good offensive coordinator and, like you said, is the key reason behind McNair becoming an MVP caliber QB. Kerry also had one of his best NFL seasons under Dinger last year.

 

He's earned a shot at a head coaching gig and it'd be nice to see him work with Cutler again.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Adam Schefter says Shanahan will not take the Bears job out of respect for Lovie Smith.

 

Link

[Soul]

Heimerdinger would seem to make sense, given our situation. There's a match there between he & Cutler too, which is a bonus. If you aren't firing Jerry, then you need to let him make one more hire, and in that case I'm sure the Bears would prefer it not be an expensive one.

 

I'd rather go with a bigger name, but I won't complain about Heimerdinger if that's the way they decide to go.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I love it when the OC talks about what the other team is dictating, rather then what he could dictate:

 

"He said he veered from the plan in part because of game situations and the styles of defenses the Bears faced -- often opponents lined up their ends wide, which makes it more difficult to move the pocket."

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-31-pompei-bears-chicago-dec31,0,5974410.column