Re: 2009-10 Chicago Bulls Thread

[Derwood]

Money and Rose. Unless they somehow lose one or both of those factors, game on.

 

or, if they get really lucky, Money and Rose and Top 3 draft pick

[Bobson Dugnutt]

so in 2 games the Bulls move from the 5 seed down to the 8 seed, and are one loss away from dropping to #9 (and falling below .500 again)

 

And their next six are against Utah, Orlando, Miami, Memphis, Dallas and Cleveland.

Better beat Memphis.

 

They can't have known Noah's injury would be such a tough nut to crack. And I do think Noah makes a big difference on this club.

 

They'll likely continue to slide.

 

If N&G is right, then it won't matter and I don't care.

 

Meaning they didn't know it would take so long to heal? If so, I disagree. They were faced with the same situation with Nocioni a few years back, and they similarly mishandled the it by bringing him back too soon.

[Sammy Sofa]

Money and Rose. Unless they somehow lose one or both of those factors, game on.

 

or, if they get really lucky, Money and Rose and Top 3 draft pick

 

Oh man, don't get my hopes up. That would be incredible.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Money and Rose. Unless they somehow lose one or both of those factors, game on.

 

or, if they get really lucky, Money and Rose and Top 3 draft pick

 

Oh man, don't get my hopes up. That would be incredible.

 

Is their pick protected from Milwaukee if it's top 3?

[jersey cubs fan]

Chicago is a great market but so are Manhattan and Brooklyn. The Bulls have a better team than the Nets and Knicks but the Knicks can sign two max guys and maybe you get to play with Wall and Lopez in NJ.

 

The Nets won't be in Brooklyn for a while, and nobody really knows how great that market is going to be if/when it opens. The Nets are playing in the Prudential Center next year, a nice hockey arena, but a hockey arena first and foremost in a completely dead Newark. There's a dream of some idyllic Brooklyn situation, but that's a long way off, and it could be a big risk to sign with a team with zero fans, zero media interest that is going to play in a hockey arena in Newark, NJ. They are a lesser "little brother" than the Clippers.

[illiniguy]

Chicago is a great market but so are Manhattan and Brooklyn. The Bulls have a better team than the Nets and Knicks but the Knicks can sign two max guys and maybe you get to play with Wall and Lopez in NJ.

 

The Nets won't be in Brooklyn for a while, and nobody really knows how great that market is going to be if/when it opens. The Nets are playing in the Prudential Center next year, a nice hockey arena, but a hockey arena first and foremost in a completely dead Newark. There's a dream of some idyllic Brooklyn situation, but that's a long way off, and it could be a big risk to sign with a team with zero fans, zero media interest that is going to play in a hockey arena in Newark, NJ. They are a lesser "little brother" than the Clippers.

If the Nets end up with the first pick I et Cal ends up there as well. Another enticing reason for LeBron to go. Since he seems to love Cal now.

[SpongeWorthy]

Chicago is a great market but so are Manhattan and Brooklyn. The Bulls have a better team than the Nets and Knicks but the Knicks can sign two max guys and maybe you get to play with Wall and Lopez in NJ.

 

The Nets won't be in Brooklyn for a while, and nobody really knows how great that market is going to be if/when it opens. The Nets are playing in the Prudential Center next year, a nice hockey arena, but a hockey arena first and foremost in a completely dead Newark. There's a dream of some idyllic Brooklyn situation, but that's a long way off, and it could be a big risk to sign with a team with zero fans, zero media interest that is going to play in a hockey arena in Newark, NJ. They are a lesser "little brother" than the Clippers.

 

There's no way that's accurate. The Clippers don't have any fans.

 

The Nets have a Russian oligarch worth $17 billion willing to throw tons of money around without any consideration for profits. The Clips have Donald Sterling.

 

And my understanding is that the Prudential Center agreement is only until the arena in Brooklyn opens up.

[SpongeWorthy]

Also why is N&G still peddling the theory that the Bulls have some money advantage. I mean they have a money advantage over other teams that can't offer a max deal. Big deal.

 

There is no money advantage. There is a fairly hard salary cap and to the extent that the salary cap can be exceeded it doesn't favor the Bulls. It favors the FA's current team.

[jersey cubs fan]

There's no way that's accurate. The Clippers don't have any fans.

 

The Nets have a Russian oligarch worth $17 billion willing to throw tons of money around without any consideration for profits. The Clips have Donald Sterling.

 

And my understanding is that the Prudential Center agreement is only until the arena in Brooklyn opens up.

 

The Nets don't have any fans either, let alone celebrity fans or a very popular basketball writer who writes about them all year long.

 

Yes, they will be moving to the Prudential Center until that mythological Brooklyn arena opens, but that Brooklyn arena is still no sure thing, and there's no telling what that market is going to look like. Right now there are no Nets fans. When the Nets were good, there were no Nets fans. I live in the most densely populated county in the country, not far at all from where the Nets played, and I've never met a Nets fan. I find it hard to believe that a free agent would look at the Nets and Bulls markets and think the Nets offer more. There's going to be at least 2 years of playing in a hockey arena in Newark on a team with no fan or media following, compared to the Bulls who have a clear built in fan and media following.

[Sammy Sofa]

I've never once said they had a money advantage. I've just said that they have money, and that's far more important than how the team does after they're hobbled by injuries and clearly setting up to be able to spend all of that delicious, sexy money. Your idea of FA's focusing on a team's record requires them to completely ignore or be unaware of the bolded. It's having the money plus being able to play with Rose that is by far the biggest selling points to bringing FA's here. How they do with key guys injured in a season that's clearly just a setup to being able to sign FA's is waaaaaaaaaaaay down that list.

[SpongeWorthy]

If how good the team is doesn't make a difference then I don't see how money does either. The Bulls can differentiate themselves on record, negatively or positively, not on dollars.

 

Well they can differentiate themselves on dollars if they want to give David Lee a max deal. I suppose there's that. So excepting that the biggest selling point is Rose, which is fine. But even Rose doesn't exist in some universe where how good he is perceived is totally divorced from how well the team plays. He's the point guard after all.

[SouthSideRyan]

i was really just messing around, i love derrick rose

 

i doubt either gm would do a straight up swap, even if they had swallowed truth serum. westbrook will probably never be the scorer that rose is already, but he (for the last couple months, anyway) fits perfectly with our roster build

 

At least we can all agree that Rondo is better than both of them

[SouthSideRyan]

Somebody refresh my memory, whose pick are the Bulls getting this year? Are the Knicks still paying for Eddy Curry??

[SpongeWorthy]

Utah gets the Knicks pick. The Bucks can swap first rounders with the Bulls if they end up with a better record, which I am expecting at this point.

[Magnetic Curses]

okay, no more talk about the dust bowl thunder, or the players that will escape from there the first chance that they get. [expletive] mr and mrs joad.

 

as for the bulls, if they can get lucky and sneak into the top 3 again, it's all over. hello lebron.

[Sammy Sofa]

If how good the team is doesn't make a difference then I don't see how money does either. The Bulls can differentiate themselves on record, negatively or positively, not on dollars.

 

And with Rose. His influence on who the end up drawing in cannot be understated.

 

Look, it would be one thing if the Bulls just flat out sucked and had nothing going for them. Yes, then their record is going to be much more of a factor. Am I saying that the Bulls are a good team? Of course not, but they clearly have some good young players and their record this year is clearly going to be hinged on injuries and, more obviously, how they're setting up to improve their team in free agency. Again, FA's aren't blind, deaf and stupid. It's a simple matter for them to realize the main factors as to why the Bulls will potentially end up with a crappy record this season. But hey, Rose is still there. The money is still there. If they really stink it up, boom, nice draft pick. Noah is still there. To a lesser degree, Deng and Gibson are still there. And it's still Chicago. That's all what matters most.

[SpongeWorthy]

Well my fear is that the Bulls will flat out suck. Maybe not in an absolute sense because they've put some wins in the bank but from here on out, with a tough upcoming schedule, things could get ugly if they don't start playing better.

 

And I think you might be overestimating how much players actually know about the leagues they play in. They know basketball, not necessarily personnel, injuries, the salary cap, etc. They'll get some schooling from their advisers but who knows how much that really sinks in. When you follow the team on a day to day basis you're much more aware of how things like injuries and salary dumping affects the team.

 

Now if the Bulls can keep their head above water they should be fine. I'm concerned about the scenario of a long, downward slide for the rest of the year.

[Sammy Sofa]

It would take like two minutes to figure out why the Bulls fell off of a cliff. It's not like Noah's injury is some well-hidden secret. If they completely suck from here on out it's because of injuries.

 

Besides, you're basically defeating your own argument by trying to present players as largely being oblivious. If that's the case, then why will they even notice or care if the Bulls stink the rest of the season? They only pay attention all of a sudden if a team is bad?

[gflore34]

My biggest fear is the Bulls are going to end up with Carlos Boozer or someone else of that ilk, no Wade, Bosh, etc.

[Tyrant]

Is their pick protected from Milwaukee if it's top 3?

 

It's protected if it's top 10.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Is their pick protected from Milwaukee if it's top 3?

 

It's protected if it's top 10.

 

Ah, thanks. I didn't realize this. So the biggest downside of the pick swap would be something like 17 for 11? That's not bad at all.

[imb]

it's so pathetically knicks-like to be pinning your hopes on the ability to suck loud enough that you can hopefully entice a good FA by saying "WE CAN GIVE YOU LESS MONEY THAN YOUR CURRENT TEAM AND WE HAVE ONE GOOD PLAYER AND POSSIBLY A HIGH DRAFT PICK. COME ON DOWN."

 

you're going to end up with an overpaid joe johnson

[Tyrant]

Is their pick protected from Milwaukee if it's top 3?

 

It's protected if it's top 10.

 

Ah, thanks. I didn't realize this. So the biggest downside of the pick swap would be something like 17 for 11? That's not bad at all.

 

At that point, it's not bad in terms of talent.

 

And, not that it's a significant factor or anything, the lower the draft choice, the lower the cap hold. The difference between 11 and 17 is about $440,000. More room for free agents!

[Magnetic Curses]

it's so pathetically knicks-like to be pinning your hopes on the ability to suck loud enough that you can hopefully entice a good FA by saying "WE CAN GIVE YOU LESS MONEY THAN YOUR CURRENT TEAM AND WE HAVE ONE GOOD PLAYER AND POSSIBLY A HIGH DRAFT PICK. COME ON DOWN."

 

you're going to end up with an overpaid joe johnson

 

shouldn't you be headed out californie-way?

 

besides, the bulls aren't going to be offering less money than anyone's current team can offer. that's not how things work.

[Garwilly]

it's so pathetically knicks-like to be pinning your hopes on the ability to suck loud enough that you can hopefully entice a good FA by saying "WE CAN GIVE YOU LESS MONEY THAN YOUR CURRENT TEAM AND WE HAVE ONE GOOD PLAYER AND POSSIBLY A HIGH DRAFT PICK. COME ON DOWN."

 

you're going to end up with an overpaid joe johnson

 

shouldn't you be headed out californie-way?

 

besides, the bulls aren't going to be offering less money than anyone's current team can offer. that's not how things work.

 

:confused: