Re: Week 8: Browns at Bears noon on CBS

[Banedon]

Way too late in the game. This line needed help in 2006/2007 and it wasn't until 2008 that he spent a significant draft pick on a lineman. Between the Columbo and Williams selections he ignored it far too long. And then this offseason he went crazy for a bunch of backups. Omiyale was a joke from the start. I still don't get why people thought he was quality when there was absolutely zero evidence to suggest so. He was a backup who never played. Shaffer is just depth, and Pace was well past his prime. He's washed up. He's much like Fred Miller was when they got him. He was contemplating retirement when they threw a bunch of cash at him. It's a 5 position group. The largest of any on the field. Buying an occasional free agent or draft pick is not addressing the position, it's putting your finger in the [expletive]. You need to invest heavily on the line every year. People talk about needing to draft a QB every season, but OL is much more important since there are always 5 positions to fill and nearly always 6-8 guys used in a season. Even if you hit big on one lineman, you still have 4 others positions. And this team has been relying on Kreutz to be the steady force in the middle for far too long.

 

And it doesn't help that every time they draft a 6th/7th round lineman, he's the first casualty of roster cutdowns. They need to develop these guys.

 

Excellent post.

[JonJayCutler]

At first I wanted Minnesota to beat GB so our WC chances increase, but if we beat the Browns and the Vikings lose, we'll only be a game and a half out with two games against them and one against GB remaining. [/optimism] :D)

[Guest]

I still hold my position that what this team needs the most is a talented possession WR. We've seen how great Brandon Marshall has made Orton look. I'm not sure I completely subscribe to the "QBs make the WR" theory, although I do think it is true to an extent. But we need a guy like Marshall, and it most likely isn't going to come via draft since all of our day one picks are gone. Also because of this, I doubt we have the trade chips needed to get such a receiver. Does anyone have a list of WRs who are slated to become FAs after this year? Thats probably our best bet.

 

And I'm not ignoring the problems with the O-Line because I agree that its a mess. Tait and Beekman > Pace and Omiyale. Tait retiring really hurt us.

 

Orton also MASSIVELY upgraded offensive linemen. Ryan Clady would easily be better than any lineman on the Bears since I started rooting for the team in 1993.

[Guest]

I still don't know why people say our GM doesn't try to upgrade the O-line. I don't think he tries super hard, but he's paid attention to it, using a 1st round pick, a 3rd round pick, and multiple FA signings to try to fix it.

 

Way too late in the game. This line needed help in 2006/2007 and it wasn't until 2008 that he spent a significant draft pick on a lineman. Between the Columbo and Williams selections he ignored it far too long. And then this offseason he went crazy for a bunch of backups. Omiyale was a joke from the start. I still don't get why people thought he was quality when there was absolutely zero evidence to suggest so. He was a backup who never played. Shaffer is just depth, and Pace was well past his prime. He's washed up. He's much like Fred Miller was when they got him. He was contemplating retirement when they threw a bunch of cash at him. It's a 5 position group. The largest of any on the field. Buying an occasional free agent or draft pick is not addressing the position, it's putting your finger in the [expletive]. You need to invest heavily on the line every year. People talk about needing to draft a QB every season, but OL is much more important since there are always 5 positions to fill and nearly always 6-8 guys used in a season. Even if you hit big on one lineman, you still have 4 others positions. And this team has been relying on Kreutz to be the steady force in the middle for far too long.

 

And it doesn't help that every time they draft a 6th/7th round lineman, he's the first casualty of roster cutdowns. They need to develop these guys.

 

Right on.

 

I can't believe Angelo's OL selections would be considered in a positive light. He's selected three day one linemen - Colombo and Metcalf in 2002 and Williams in 2008. Don't tell me the Bears didn't need OL for those 6 years. And we can toss 2010 into the list of non-first day linemen picks.

 

There is a lack of quality and there is very little young talent in there. Ignoring the line on draft day and plugging the holes in free agency might be a good strategy but Angelo is not good at plugging the holes in free agency.

[jersey cubs fan]

I still don't know why people say our GM doesn't try to upgrade the O-line. I don't think he tries super hard, but he's paid attention to it, using a 1st round pick, a 3rd round pick, and multiple FA signings to try to fix it.

 

Way too late in the game. This line needed help in 2006/2007 and it wasn't until 2008 that he spent a significant draft pick on a lineman. Between the Columbo and Williams selections he ignored it far too long. And then this offseason he went crazy for a bunch of backups. Omiyale was a joke from the start. I still don't get why people thought he was quality when there was absolutely zero evidence to suggest so. He was a backup who never played. Shaffer is just depth, and Pace was well past his prime. He's washed up. He's much like Fred Miller was when they got him. He was contemplating retirement when they threw a bunch of cash at him. It's a 5 position group. The largest of any on the field. Buying an occasional free agent or draft pick is not addressing the position, it's putting your finger in the [expletive]. You need to invest heavily on the line every year. People talk about needing to draft a QB every season, but OL is much more important since there are always 5 positions to fill and nearly always 6-8 guys used in a season. Even if you hit big on one lineman, you still have 4 others positions. And this team has been relying on Kreutz to be the steady force in the middle for far too long.

 

And it doesn't help that every time they draft a 6th/7th round lineman, he's the first casualty of roster cutdowns. They need to develop these guys.

 

Right on.

 

I can't believe Angelo's OL selections would be considered in a positive light. He's selected three day one linemen - Colombo and Metcalf in 2002 and Williams in 2008. Don't tell me the Bears didn't need OL for those 6 years. And we can toss 2010 into the list of non-first day linemen picks.

 

There is a lack of quality and there is very little young talent in there. Ignoring the line on draft day and plugging the holes in free agency might be a good strategy but Angelo is not good at plugging the holes in free agency.

 

And plugging holes on the line was a major problem with the Tampa Bay Bucs when they were being led by a dominant defense. It's just not Angelo's thing.

[sweetpeteman]

I still hold my position that what this team needs the most is a talented possession WR. We've seen how great Brandon Marshall has made Orton look. I'm not sure I completely subscribe to the "QBs make the WR" theory, although I do think it is true to an extent. But we need a guy like Marshall, and it most likely isn't going to come via draft since all of our day one picks are gone. Also because of this, I doubt we have the trade chips needed to get such a receiver. Does anyone have a list of WRs who are slated to become FAs after this year? Thats probably our best bet.

 

And I'm not ignoring the problems with the O-Line because I agree that its a mess. Tait and Beekman > Pace and Omiyale. Tait retiring really hurt us.

 

Orton also MASSIVELY upgraded offensive linemen. Ryan Clady would easily be better than any lineman on the Bears since I started rooting for the team in 1993.

 

REC, YDS, Y/P, Y/G, TDs

Brandon Marshall:

29 332 11.4 55.3 4

 

Devin Hester:

28 373 13.3 62.2 3

 

Earl Bennett:

23 305 13.3 50.8 0

 

Johnny Knox:

21 266 12.7 44.3 3

 

Jabar Gaffney:

18 242 13.4 40.3 0

 

Eddie Royal:

18 148 8.2 24.7 0

 

 

I would bet that the O-Line is making a bigger difference then Marshall, who is about equal to Hester in stats right now. Overall, Cutler has made a bigger difference to these WR's then Marshall has to Orton.

[jersey cubs fan]

I still hold my position that what this team needs the most is a talented possession WR. We've seen how great Brandon Marshall has made Orton look. I'm not sure I completely subscribe to the "QBs make the WR" theory, although I do think it is true to an extent. But we need a guy like Marshall, and it most likely isn't going to come via draft since all of our day one picks are gone. Also because of this, I doubt we have the trade chips needed to get such a receiver. Does anyone have a list of WRs who are slated to become FAs after this year? Thats probably our best bet.

 

And I'm not ignoring the problems with the O-Line because I agree that its a mess. Tait and Beekman > Pace and Omiyale. Tait retiring really hurt us.

 

Orton also MASSIVELY upgraded offensive linemen. Ryan Clady would easily be better than any lineman on the Bears since I started rooting for the team in 1993.

 

REC, YDS, Y/P, Y/G, TDs

Brandon Marshall:

29 332 11.4 55.3 4

 

Devin Hester:

28 373 13.3 62.2 3

 

Earl Bennett:

23 305 13.3 50.8 0

 

Johnny Knox:

21 266 12.7 44.3 3

 

Jabar Gaffney:

18 242 13.4 40.3 0

 

Eddie Royal:

18 148 8.2 24.7 0

 

 

I would bet that the O-Line is making a bigger difference then Marshall, who is about equal to Hester in stats right now. Overall, Cutler has made a bigger difference to these WR's then Marshall has to Orton.

 

But Marshall is grabbing stuff that no Bears receiver could grab.

[WrigleyField 22]

I'd like to put $100 on Cutler's "accuracy" magically improving [b]IF[/b] the O-line is improved.

 

Make that $1000.

Fixed. I'm not sure the line will be fixed.

 

Theres not a ton of great FA, other than some guys who don't seem likely to leave their teams. Our highest pick is a 3rd rounder, and we still have defensive holes to worry about. Also Forte has proven this year that we need a better #2 RB. He isn't a guy that will carry the whole load. I could definitely see the OL being just as bad next year.

[Soul]

At first I wanted Minnesota to beat GB so our WC chances increase, but if we beat the Browns and the Vikings lose, we'll only be a game and a half out with two games against them and one against GB remaining. [/optimism] :D)

 

I can't even think about playoffs after last week. I'll need to see a changed team, for multiple weeks, before I'll accept that they are a playoff contender again.

 

I'm not saying they aren't going to make it. But right now I'm really down on these guys. Last week weighs very heavily on me.

[rawaction]

I still don't know why people say our GM doesn't try to upgrade the O-line. I don't think he tries super hard, but he's paid attention to it, using a 1st round pick, a 3rd round pick, and multiple FA signings to try to fix it.

 

Way too late in the game. This line needed help in 2006/2007 and it wasn't until 2008 that he spent a significant draft pick on a lineman. Between the Columbo and Williams selections he ignored it far too long. And then this offseason he went crazy for a bunch of backups. Omiyale was a joke from the start. I still don't get why people thought he was quality when there was absolutely zero evidence to suggest so. He was a backup who never played. Shaffer is just depth, and Pace was well past his prime. He's washed up. He's much like Fred Miller was when they got him. He was contemplating retirement when they threw a bunch of cash at him. It's a 5 position group. The largest of any on the field. Buying an occasional free agent or draft pick is not addressing the position, it's putting your finger in the [expletive]. You need to invest heavily on the line every year. People talk about needing to draft a QB every season, but OL is much more important since there are always 5 positions to fill and nearly always 6-8 guys used in a season. Even if you hit big on one lineman, you still have 4 others positions. And this team has been relying on Kreutz to be the steady force in the middle for far too long.

 

And it doesn't help that every time they draft a 6th/7th round lineman, he's the first casualty of roster cutdowns. They need to develop these guys.

 

Right on.

 

I can't believe Angelo's OL selections would be considered in a positive light. He's selected three day one linemen - Colombo and Metcalf in 2002 and Williams in 2008. Don't tell me the Bears didn't need OL for those 6 years. And we can toss 2010 into the list of non-first day linemen picks.

 

 

Which is my problem with the Gaines Adams trade. To me, that trade was another case of Angelo spitting on the theory that the team needs OL help. And it's not like the Bears need depth on the OL. They need a franchise player on the OL. They need a day 1 pick at either tackle or guard spot...AT LEAST. The best hope right now is that Williams is average to slightly above, Beekman is slightly above, and Omiyale is developed into an average lineman. There's not much hope that Pace, Kruetz, or Shaffer will ever be better than just servicable again.

[jersey cubs fan]

Which is my problem with the Gaines Adams trade. To me, that trade was another case of Angelo spitting on the theory that the team needs OL help. And it's not like the Bears need depth on the OL. They need a franchise player on the OL. They need a day 1 pick at either tackle or guard spot...AT LEAST. The best hope right now is that Williams is average to slightly above, Beekman is slightly above, and Omiyale is developed into an average lineman. There's not much hope that Pace, Kruetz, or Shaffer will ever be better than just servicable again.

 

I understand the reasoning, however, he's shown no ability to actually find OL and it was a fair value trade. Plus, they are in need of linemen as well. Tommie Harris may not play with the Bears after this year. This is three straight seasons of wondering if he'll ever be the same, and he's being held out as a coach's decision. They didn't have any franchise caliber ends, and the tackles are basically all depth. It's not like he was unnecessarily adding to a stacked position. If it was April 2010, and Jerry spent the first pick on a defensive end, it would not be outlandish by any stretch. Any non-1st round OL isn't like to start in year 1 anyway,

[SpongeWorthy]

Well, there's not really any resources left to get linemen high in the draft so now what?

 

The dream scenario is that you do what Denver has done with their defense where you get 1 good, blue chip piece in Dawkins, get a bunch of retreads and career back ups, and bring in a new staff. Seriously, who's even HEARD of most of these guys on the Broncos defense? Many of their new faces barely played anywhere else and now they're a top 2-3 unit in the league so far after being utterly horrible last season.

[Soul]

Which is my problem with the Gaines Adams trade. To me, that trade was another case of Angelo spitting on the theory that the team needs OL help. And it's not like the Bears need depth on the OL. They need a franchise player on the OL. They need a day 1 pick at either tackle or guard spot...AT LEAST. The best hope right now is that Williams is average to slightly above, Beekman is slightly above, and Omiyale is developed into an average lineman. There's not much hope that Pace, Kruetz, or Shaffer will ever be better than just servicable again.

 

I understand the reasoning, however, he's shown no ability to actually find OL and it was a fair value trade. Plus, they are in need of linemen as well. Tommie Harris may not play with the Bears after this year. This is three straight seasons of wondering if he'll ever be the same, and he's being held out as a coach's decision. They didn't have any franchise caliber ends, and the tackles are basically all depth. It's not like he was unnecessarily adding to a stacked position. If it was April 2010, and Jerry spent the first pick on a defensive end, it would not be outlandish by any stretch. Any non-1st round OL isn't like to start in year 1 anyway,

 

When I look at the mounting problems on this team, I would think we would want to stockpile picks, not trade them away.

 

That is my problem with the Gaines Adams trade. At least get a lower-round pick back in return. Remember, we were taking what they considered to be a bad 1st round pick off their hands.

[rawaction]

Which is my problem with the Gaines Adams trade. To me, that trade was another case of Angelo spitting on the theory that the team needs OL help. And it's not like the Bears need depth on the OL. They need a franchise player on the OL. They need a day 1 pick at either tackle or guard spot...AT LEAST. The best hope right now is that Williams is average to slightly above, Beekman is slightly above, and Omiyale is developed into an average lineman. There's not much hope that Pace, Kruetz, or Shaffer will ever be better than just servicable again.

 

I understand the reasoning, however, he's shown no ability to actually find OL and it was a fair value trade. Plus, they are in need of linemen as well. Tommie Harris may not play with the Bears after this year. This is three straight seasons of wondering if he'll ever be the same, and he's being held out as a coach's decision. They didn't have any franchise caliber ends, and the tackles are basically all depth. It's not like he was unnecessarily adding to a stacked position. If it was April 2010, and Jerry spent the first pick on a defensive end, it would not be outlandish by any stretch. Any non-1st round OL isn't like to start in year 1 anyway,

 

And I understand your point as well, but I see OL as a bigger problem than the DLine right now. After all, the Bears O-tackles features 1 guy who has played 6 games at a mediocre level in 2 years and the other may not have 6 mediocre games left in him. The 3rd tackle's #6 comes from the number of sacks he gave up in preseason games against 2nd and 3rd team defenders. They don't have franchise DEs, but don't have franchise OTs. Have basically depth at the interior of the DL, same thing with the interior of the OL. And plenty of non-1st round OL start in their rookie seasons. In fact, of the 6 linemen drafted in the 2nd round of the 2009 draft, all 6 have started at least 1 game so far. Four of the 6 are full-time starters and were so from opening day.

 

It is far less likely for a non-1st round DL to contribute right away, that's why spending a 1st round pick on a DE would not be outlandish and may even be desirable.

[cubweiser03]

Frank O. out, Beekman in.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4602540

[rawaction]

Frank O. out, Beekman in.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4602540

 

Yeah heard this on ESPN1000 earlier today. I'm also hearing Williams may be on the hot seat to get Shaffer in there to help the run game.

[Butterscup1679666578]

If you want to help the run game, taking Williams out and leaving Pace in isn't going to help.

[Banedon]

Frank O. out, Beekman in.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4602540

 

Yeah heard this on ESPN1000 earlier today. I'm also hearing Williams may be on the hot seat to get Shaffer in there to help the run game.

 

The ESPN article implies that Pace's job is the one threatened by Shaffer.

[Keener98]

Frank O. out, Beekman in.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4602540

 

Yeah heard this on ESPN1000 earlier today. I'm also hearing Williams may be on the hot seat to get Shaffer in there to help the run game.

 

The ESPN article implies that Pace's job is the one threatened by Shaffer.

 

I really hope its Pace and not Williams. Benching your number 1 draft pick, while letting the over the hill, has looked like crap all year Orlando Pace play, would be one of the dumber things the Bears have ever done.

[Mike Aller]

My poor, terrible brownies will cure all of your wounds. That much I assure you.

[WrigleyField 22]

Frank O. out, Beekman in.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4602540

 

Yeah heard this on ESPN1000 earlier today. I'm also hearing Williams may be on the hot seat to get Shaffer in there to help the run game.

 

The ESPN article implies that Pace's job is the one threatened by Shaffer.

Williams-Beekman-Kreutz-Garza-Shaffer

[Banedon]

Williams-Beekman-Kreutz-Garza-Shaffer

 

Lets not pretend that's a magic O-line fix...it's a step in the right direction, but frankly, Kreutz needs to be replaced...and probably pretty soon.

[Banedon]

``We've got a good offensive line,'' Turner said. ``They're good football players. They're playing well. And collectively, as an offense, we've got to do some things better.

 

``Everyone's talking about the offensive line, and I have no idea why. I like our offensive line. Got good players, good depth.''

 

``What does (Beekman) bring to the table? He's a good football player,'' Turner said. ``He started last year. Frank's a good football player. A lot of guys are good football players.''

 

I know he's just defending his guys, but that's not going to quell any criticism.

[Soul]

Yeah, this whole "let's pretend nothing's wrong and everyone is crazy" approach isn't going to cut it, Ron.

[gflore34]

``We've got a good offensive line,'' Turner said. ``They're good football players. They're playing well. And collectively, as an offense, we've got to do some things better.

 

``Everyone's talking about the offensive line, and I have no idea why. I like our offensive line. Got good players, good depth.''

 

``What does (Beekman) bring to the table? He's a good football player,'' Turner said. ``He started last year. Frank's a good football player. A lot of guys are good football players.''

 

I know he's just defending his guys, but that's not going to quell any criticism.

 

Why sugar coat it when they suck? To go so far as accusing the OL of playing well is bit much Ron.

 

Similar situation to sugar coating Benson' cut, bottom line Cedric you effing sucked when you were a Bear and deserved to be cut.