Zambrano as Trade Bait?

[Backtobanks]

From FoxSports:

 

 

Let's see what Ken Rosenthal of FoxSports.com has for us in his latest Full Count video...

 

The free agent market for starting pitching doesn't look very enticing, but the trade market could be intriguing. Toronto will almost certainly field offers for Roy Halladay again, the Cubs could trade Carlos Zambrano, and the Braves could deal Javy Vazquez if they decide to keep Tim Hudson.

[Guest]

Doesn't Z have a no-trade clause? I'm not saying it would be impossible, but I think it would be hard.

[Tarver]

Doesn't Z have a no-trade clause? I'm not saying it would be impossible, but I think it would be hard.

 

Not to mention a potential disaster. Sure, it'd be nice to have that contract off the books, but knowing this FO they'll just go out and blow it on R. Soriano and Figgins.

 

This team is already has two ?s in the rotation next year if they lose Harden. Better off keeping the pitching we have.

[DiamondMind]

I trade Zambrano the second I get a decent return. So sick of his overrated [expletive]. Give me five Lilly's.

 

This depends on if Harden's coming back or not. Going down two starters probably isn't a good idea unless you're getting one back for Z.

 

Would you guys trade, say, Zambrano for Vazquez and Y. Escobar?

[Post Count Padder]

It depends what we get in return. We could get a decent package, but then I feel we'd need to re-sign Harden or add another starter. And the latter would defeat the purpose because it would require us trading prospects.

 

And lest we forget Z's NTC.

[erik316wttn]

I'm a fan of selling high like everyone else, but there's no reason to sell on Zambrano right now.

[DiamondMind]

I'm a fan of selling high like everyone else, but there's no reason to sell on Zambrano right now.

 

Yea, there's no pressing reason to trade him -- but like I said, if some team comes along and makes an offer (like vazquez and escobar), do you take it, assuming he waives his ntc?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Didnt Z once give a list of teams other than the Cubs hes want to play for? The White Sox, Cardinals, Red Sox, Yankess, and maybe a few more. Obviously, White Sox or Cards would never happen, but Yankees or Red Sox could be interesting. Im not saying I want to railroad Z out of town, espcially with all the questions surrounding the future of this team, but if the Yanks or Red Sox were interested, they both have some enticing prospects.

[cbbryan]

Didnt Z once give a list of teams other than the Cubs hes want to play for? The White Sox, Cardinals, Red Sox, Yankess, and maybe a few more. Obviously, White Sox or Cards would never happen, but Yankees or Red Sox could be interesting. Im not saying I want to railroad Z out of town, espcially with all the questions surrounding the future of this team, but if the Yanks or Red Sox were interested, they both have some enticing prospects.

 

The Cubs would have to get more than prospects back for Z. This team is set-up to compete now and trading major parts doesn't seem to make much sense. You never know with new ownership.

[Outshined_One]

According to Cot's, Z has a full NTC. Also, the remainder of what he is owed:

 

10:$17.875M, 11:$17.875M, 12:$18M, 13:$19.25M vesting player option (Zambrano receives 2013 player option if he is first or second in 2011 Cy Young vote or if he finishes in top 4 in 2012 Cy Young vote and is healthy at end of 2012)

 

That's pretty freaking steep. Assuming the Cubs were to trade him, I'm guessing the Cubs would have to eat a chunk of his salary and that Z would want the team trading for him to guarantee his salary in '13.

 

The Jake Peavy deal might not be a bad baseline to start from in terms of possible returns, although keep in mind that the White Sox picked up the entirety of Peavy's deal (10:$15M, 11:$16M, 12:$17M, 13:$22M club option ($4M buyout)) and Peavy was injured at the time. We'd probably be looking at two B/B+ prospects along with one or two low risk/low reward AAA guys or high risk/high reward Low A guys.

 

I don't know if I'd pull the trigger on a deal like that.

[Larry Horse]

Didnt Z once give a list of teams other than the Cubs hes want to play for? The White Sox, Cardinals, Red Sox, Yankess, and maybe a few more. Obviously, White Sox or Cards would never happen, but Yankees or Red Sox could be interesting. Im not saying I want to railroad Z out of town, espcially with all the questions surrounding the future of this team, but if the Yanks or Red Sox were interested, they both have some enticing prospects.

 

The Cubs would have to get more than prospects back for Z. This team is set-up to compete now and trading major parts doesn't seem to make much sense. You never know with new ownership.

 

I think this team showed this year it's not set up to "compete". And is being set up to "compete" the goal? I think it should be set up to win the World Series. And this group isn't going to do it.

 

I would get that list of Z's approved teams and start fielding offers.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Didnt Z once give a list of teams other than the Cubs hes want to play for? The White Sox, Cardinals, Red Sox, Yankess, and maybe a few more. Obviously, White Sox or Cards would never happen, but Yankees or Red Sox could be interesting. Im not saying I want to railroad Z out of town, espcially with all the questions surrounding the future of this team, but if the Yanks or Red Sox were interested, they both have some enticing prospects.

 

The Cubs would have to get more than prospects back for Z. This team is set-up to compete now and trading major parts doesn't seem to make much sense. You never know with new ownership.

 

I think this team showed this year it's not set up to "compete". And is being set up to "compete" the goal? I think it should be set up to win the World Series. And this group isn't going to do it.

 

I would get that list of Z's approved teams and start fielding offers.

 

I disagree. I feel that this team is definitely set up to compete, at least for the short term. Despite what Matt Holiday has said, the experts feel strongly that he wont be back in St. Louis, and even if we get this same Cubs team with a few minor tweaks, we'll be back to being the favorites in the division, maybe the NL. I cant see the Brewers aquiring the pitching it would take to pull themsoeves up, and even if they do, there probably planning a rebuild. The Cardinals will ptobably be competitve, but I cant see them having another monste stretch like they had this year. I would strongly suggest against shedding any key players unless something very good is coming back in return. Besides, even if Jim Hendry does get another chance in 2010, you better believe he'll be on thin ice and wont want to do anything stupid.

[Backtobanks]

While we would all love to make some gigantic deal, basically we need to get healthy. A healthy Soriano and Ramirez, a rebound year from Soto, and re-signing Harden and Grabow puts us at or near the top in the NL Central (if not the whole NL). I know some of you don't believe you can count on health from Soriano and Ramirez, but I do. It is obvious that Soriano has been hurting for a big part of the season. It would be interesting to see what the Cards would do without Pujols from 60-70 games.

[Tarver]

Didnt Z once give a list of teams other than the Cubs hes want to play for? The White Sox, Cardinals, Red Sox, Yankess, and maybe a few more. Obviously, White Sox or Cards would never happen, but Yankees or Red Sox could be interesting. Im not saying I want to railroad Z out of town, espcially with all the questions surrounding the future of this team, but if the Yanks or Red Sox were interested, they both have some enticing prospects.

 

The Cubs would have to get more than prospects back for Z. This team is set-up to compete now and trading major parts doesn't seem to make much sense. You never know with new ownership.

 

I think this team showed this year it's not set up to "compete". And is being set up to "compete" the goal? I think it should be set up to win the World Series. And this group isn't going to do it.

 

I would get that list of Z's approved teams and start fielding offers.

 

I disagree. I feel that this team is definitely set up to compete, at least for the short term. Despite what Matt Holiday has said, the experts feel strongly that he wont be back in St. Louis, and even if we get this same Cubs team with a few minor tweaks, we'll be back to being the favorites in the division, maybe the NL. I cant see the Brewers aquiring the pitching it would take to pull themsoeves up, and even if they do, there probably planning a rebuild. The Cardinals will ptobably be competitve, but I cant see them having another monste stretch like they had this year. I would strongly suggest against shedding any key players unless something very good is coming back in return. Besides, even if Jim Hendry does get another chance in 2010, you better believe he'll be on thin ice and wont want to do anything stupid.

 

Phillies? This team will not be picked as best in the league.

[Tarver]

I'm a fan of selling high like everyone else, but there's no reason to sell on Zambrano right now.

 

Yea, there's no pressing reason to trade him -- but like I said, if some team comes along and makes an offer (like vazquez and escobar), do you take it, assuming he waives his ntc?

 

The Braves are moving Vazquez or Hudson because of salary restrictions and a surplus of pitching. The deal you proposed is both ridiculously one-sided and ill-informed, but considering the other absurd Cub rip-offs you think up, I'm not too surprised.

[Guest]

While we would all love to make some gigantic deal, basically we need to get healthy. A healthy Soriano and Ramirez, a rebound year from Soto, and re-signing Harden and Grabow puts us at or near the top in the NL Central (if not the whole NL). I know some of you don't believe you can count on health from Soriano and Ramirez, but I do. It is obvious that Soriano has been hurting for a big part of the season. It would be interesting to see what the Cards would do without Pujols from 60-70 games.

 

You can crap in one hand a wish in the other and see which one gets filled up faster.

 

This team will always have injuries to contend with, especially with guys on the wrong side of 30.

 

That's the thing, Hendry plans for the best and hopes the worst doesn't happen. He should plan for the worst and hope the best happens.

[Atta Boy]

I'm a fan of selling high like everyone else, but there's no reason to sell on Zambrano right now.

 

Yea, there's no pressing reason to trade him -- but like I said, if some team comes along and makes an offer (like vazquez and escobar), do you take it, assuming he waives his ntc?

 

The Braves are moving Vazquez or Hudson because of salary restrictions and a surplus of pitching. The deal you proposed is both ridiculously one-sided and ill-informed, but considering the other absurd Cub rip-offs you think up, I'm not too surprised.

 

The actual trade proposal isn't the part of the question I believe he was intending to matter. If a trade comes along that's either even value or a complete fleecing doesn't matter. It's more about weather or not people are ready to move on from Big Z. I'm mixed. You see the potential that he has to be dominating, but most of the time he is more aggravating than anything. Do you trade a guy who potentially could put it all together and deliver a cy young year for less talented but more consistent players because his emotions could cause him to fall apart at any time?

[tspain]

One of the sports guys on CSN said the Cubs were built to win when they brought Soriano in. They were to have won the past 2 seasons and this season. If they had, Soriano would not be looking bad now, but would be a Chicago hero. They all would be hero's. But the World Series Championship never happened, and the team is now on the down side.

 

Here is what I would do. I would trade every piece that is tradeable, and rebuild this team. We wouldn't win in 4 or 5 years. But then they could win 10 years in a row. This team just tries to contend, and never rebuilds. I am for a complete rebuild. The only guy I think you cannot trade is Soriano. Everyone else needs to go. May have to keep Z and Soto until next spring to show they are healthy, but they should all be tradeable. That is my idea.

 

I think we have little chance to win next season. Guys are older, and more injury prone. We will see who is right.

 

Pastor Tom Spain

[Backtobanks]

While we would all love to make some gigantic deal, basically we need to get healthy. A healthy Soriano and Ramirez, a rebound year from Soto, and re-signing Harden and Grabow puts us at or near the top in the NL Central (if not the whole NL). I know some of you don't believe you can count on health from Soriano and Ramirez, but I do. It is obvious that Soriano has been hurting for a big part of the season. It would be interesting to see what the Cards would do without Pujols from 60-70 games.

 

You can crap in one hand a wish in the other and see which one gets filled up faster.

 

This team will always have injuries to contend with, especially with guys on the wrong side of 30.

 

That's the thing, Hendry plans for the best and hopes the worst doesn't happen. He should plan for the worst and hope the best happens.

 

 

You just can't go into a season with a bunch of guys on the wrong side of 30. Just ask the Yankees with Posada (38), ARod (34), Jeter (35), Damon (35), Matsui (35), Pettitte (37), Burnett (32), Rivera (39), Marte (34), Hairston (33), Molina (34), and Hinske (32). They're on a pace to win 103 games. Are you saying Hendry ought to prepare for the fact that Ramirez was going to dislocate his shoulder or Dempster would break his toe on the dugout rail. Hendry was prepared for the players with known injury histories (Harden and Bradley) with Johnson (broken foot from foul ball), Wells, Marshall, and Gorzelanny. No GM can go into a season expecting his "starting" lineup to be on the field 7-8 times (out of 162 games) and be prepared for that situation. Just ask the other NY team about that.

[Outshined_One]

This team doesn't need to rebuild. The Cubs have one of the largest salaries in MLB, which means they should not be standing by idly in free agency. They should be fielding a competitive team every year. Moreover, their current roster is constructed to be competitive, regardless of the results they had this season. The rotation, bullpen, and offense were good enough coming into this year to be the hands on favorite to win the division. Blowing it up just for the sake of blowing it up is just foolish.

 

If you want to bolster the farm system, call for more spending in the draft, better scouting, better coaching, and so on. That can be done without forfeiting the next few seasons.

[cbbryan]

While we would all love to make some gigantic deal, basically we need to get healthy. A healthy Soriano and Ramirez, a rebound year from Soto, and re-signing Harden and Grabow puts us at or near the top in the NL Central (if not the whole NL). I know some of you don't believe you can count on health from Soriano and Ramirez, but I do. It is obvious that Soriano has been hurting for a big part of the season. It would be interesting to see what the Cards would do without Pujols from 60-70 games.

 

You can crap in one hand a wish in the other and see which one gets filled up faster.

 

This team will always have injuries to contend with, especially with guys on the wrong side of 30.

 

That's the thing, Hendry plans for the best and hopes the worst doesn't happen. He should plan for the worst and hope the best happens.

 

They were healthy last year w/ practically the same team and had a great record. They looked like the team to beat. Injuries have derailed this season as well as under performance from some key players.........this doesn't mean the team isn't set-up to win/compete now.

[Backtobanks]

One of the sports guys on CSN said the Cubs were built to win when they brought Soriano in. They were to have won the past 2 seasons and this season. If they had, Soriano would not be looking bad now, but would be a Chicago hero. They all would be hero's. But the World Series Championship never happened, and the team is now on the down side.

 

Here is what I would do. I would trade every piece that is tradeable, and rebuild this team. We wouldn't win in 4 or 5 years. But then they could win 10 years in a row. This team just tries to contend, and never rebuilds. I am for a complete rebuild. The only guy I think you cannot trade is Soriano. Everyone else needs to go. May have to keep Z and Soto until next spring to show they are healthy, but they should all be tradeable. That is my idea.

 

I think we have little chance to win next season. Guys are older, and more injury prone. We will see who is right.

 

Pastor Tom Spain

 

 

That's the big problem, there aren't many tradable players on the team. Lee, Ramirez, Zambrano, etc. have NTC, which complicates any kind of deal. Trying to trade Bradley and Dempster would mean eating most of their contracts and accepting very little in return. I would think that Fukudome and Theriot don't have too much trade value, which leaves us with

Wells, Guzman, Marmol, etc. who are the youth we need to rebuild the team.

[tspain]

I disagree. We have lots of guys we can trade for good kids. None of our big guys will want to stay if we are rebuilding. They will accept trades although they have no trade contracts. We let Hardin and Grabow walk and offer arbitration, and get draft picks. One of the things that has hurt this team is the 2002 draft. We had 4 first round picks, and 2 second round picks, and none of them made the majors. And it was a good draft year. Rich Hill was taken in the 4th round and made it, Billy Petrick made it from the 3rd round. We used the 21st pick of the draft on Bobby Brownlee, I would have used it on Matt Cain pitching in SF. #'s 32, 36 and 38 could have been used on guys I wanted us to take, Dave Bush, and Jon Lester. Just think where we would be if we had used that draft wisely.

 

The reason the Cubs have not won in over 100 years is because of the argument I hear on this board, be competitive. I don't want to be competitve, I want to win. Why settle for being competitive? What is the harm if we are not competitive for a couple years? Especially when you know the good players are on their way up. Use the trades to bring in good players to go with what we have in the minors right now. And draft wisely, like we did in 2008. I think we had a great draft in 2008, then a terrible draft in 2009. I have no idea what happened this time, but it was not nearly as good a draft. Maybe it was just not as good a draft year this time.

 

I say forget the word competitive, and say we want to win. We cannot win now as we are to old and injury riddled to win. So let us take the time to rebuild from the bottom up. Start over. Other teams have done that and come on and won more than once recently, while the Cubs are satisfied with just being competitive. You have gotten your wish for way too long, just stay competitive. That is not good enough for me.

 

I don't think this bunch will win next year. But I hope I am wrong, cause I am sure they will be back. You win, we will try to be competitive again next year. And we will be saying wait till next year one more time. Well, I am tired of saying it. Enough is enough.

 

Here is the team I want on the field next season:

 

1b-Hoffpaiur

2b-Scales, Blanco

ss-Barney

3b-Fox

c-Clevenger, Robinson

lf-Soriano, don't want him, but cannot trade him, so he will be here

cf-Fuld

rf-Fukodome, unless someone will take his contract, then put Fox out there, and play Smith at 3b

 

Rotation

 

1. Wells

2. Samardjiza

3. Caridad

4. Atkins

5. ??????

 

Bullpen

 

1. Parker

2. Stevens

3. Maestri

4. Gaub

5. Mateo

6. Berg

 

I know it won't win, but neither will the team we have now. And we will have lots of good minor leaguers coming up in a year or two or three. We will at least be building toward winning instead of trying to stay competitive and put fans in the seats. I am one fan who would rather win.

[CubbieBum]

I disagree. We have lots of guys we can trade for good kids. None of our big guys will want to stay if we are rebuilding. They will accept trades although they have no trade contracts. We let Hardin and Grabow walk and offer arbitration, and get draft picks. One of the things that has hurt this team is the 2002 draft. We had 4 first round picks, and 2 second round picks, and none of them made the majors. And it was a good draft year. Rich Hill was taken in the 4th round and made it, Billy Petrick made it from the 3rd round. We used the 21st pick of the draft on Bobby Brownlee, I would have used it on Matt Cain pitching in SF. #'s 32, 36 and 38 could have been used on guys I wanted us to take, Dave Bush, and Jon Lester. Just think where we would be if we had used that draft wisely.

 

The reason the Cubs have not won in over 100 years is because of the argument I hear on this board, be competitive. I don't want to be competitve, I want to win. Why settle for being competitive? What is the harm if we are not competitive for a couple years? Especially when you know the good players are on their way up. Use the trades to bring in good players to go with what we have in the minors right now. And draft wisely, like we did in 2008. I think we had a great draft in 2008, then a terrible draft in 2009. I have no idea what happened this time, but it was not nearly as good a draft. Maybe it was just not as good a draft year this time.

 

I say forget the word competitive, and say we want to win. We cannot win now as we are to old and injury riddled to win. So let us take the time to rebuild from the bottom up. Start over. Other teams have done that and come on and won more than once recently, while the Cubs are satisfied with just being competitive. You have gotten your wish for way too long, just stay competitive. That is not good enough for me.

 

I don't think this bunch will win next year. But I hope I am wrong, cause I am sure they will be back. You win, we will try to be competitive again next year. And we will be saying wait till next year one more time. Well, I am tired of saying it. Enough is enough.

 

Here is the team I want on the field next season:

 

1b-Hoffpaiur

2b-Scales, Blanco

ss-Barney

3b-Fox

c-Clevenger, Robinson

lf-Soriano, don't want him, but cannot trade him, so he will be here

cf-Fuld

rf-Fukodome, unless someone will take his contract, then put Fox out there, and play Smith at 3b

 

Rotation

 

1. Wells

2. Samardjiza

3. Caridad

4. Atkins

5. ??????

 

Bullpen

 

1. Parker

2. Stevens

3. Maestri

4. Gaub

5. Mateo

6. Berg

 

I know it won't win, but neither will the team we have now. And we will have lots of good minor leaguers coming up in a year or two or three. We will at least be building toward winning instead of trying to stay competitive and put fans in the seats. I am one fan who would rather win.

 

Umm no. Big market teams don't tear down and rebuild. They just build through FA. Give us a good FA or two in the offseason and we are contender. We are not Tampa Bay, Florida etc. To be honest I'm a bit flabbergasted that someone would actually think trading everyone and fielding a crappy team is a good idea for a team in Chicago.

[SouthSideRyan]

People are really overreacting to a mediocre season.

 

And why does everyone still think Fukudome is bad?