Delmon Young

[Cubs Fan Dan]

There was some talk earlier this year about the Twins being willing to deal Young, if the Cubs could possibly change their middle infield would anyone look into trading maybe working a deal around Theriot for Delmon Young? Delmon would be a solid platoon for Fukudome if they continue to play Fuku that way. Who knows maybe Delmon will improve to the level people expected him to get.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't see how creating a hole at SS helps in any way.

[NCCubFan]

Agreed; trading a starter for a platoon player = bad.

 

In other words, trading a starter for a platoon player = Hendry. Look for it to happen.

[muntjack]

In all fairness, we already have a hole at SS.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Trading Theriot for Delmon Young would be an awful idea. There's no reason to get rid of Theriot... he's cheap and he's solid offensively. We have about 700 billion dollars committed to our outfield already next year, so we have no need for another outfielder. It also wouldn't make sense to platoon Kosuke at this point, considering he can actually hit now.

 

Plus, Delmon Young sucks.

[Halman]

Trading Theriot for Delmon Young would be an awful idea.

 

Correct

 

There's no reason to get rid of Theriot... he's cheap and he's solid offensively.

 

This is 50% right. Theriot is cheap.

 

We have about 700 billion dollars committed to our outfield already next year, so we have no need for another outfielder. It also wouldn't make sense to platoon Kosuke at this point, considering he can actually hit now.

 

No, Kosuke has a total of 57 ABs vs. Lefties this year for a awesome OPS of .552 so it makes some sense to platoon him.

 

Plus, Delmon Young sucks.

 

Correct. Plus he's not a centerfielder.

[Halman]

Are the cubs moving Bradley to CF and Fukudome to RF. Even then Young isn't a good enough platoon RF.

[Backtobanks]

Trading Theriot for Delmon Young would be an awful idea.

 

Correct

 

There's no reason to get rid of Theriot... he's cheap and he's solid offensively.

 

This is 50% right. Theriot is cheap.

 

In all fairness, we already have a hole at SS.

 

Why the sudden hatred towards Theriot? Looking at the 2009 Cubs with injuries, payroll issues, and mental health problems and you guys want to gang up on Theriot? I can think of at least 10 guys on the roster that I have issues with before I would get to Theriot.

[Halman]

 

Why the sudden hatred towards Theriot? Looking at the 2009 Cubs with injuries, payroll issues, and mental health problems and you guys want to gang up on Theriot? I can think of at least 10 guys on the roster that I have issues with before I would get to Theriot.

 

Because he's not good? And yes he not the biggest issue with the team currently but he's still the same guy who everyone wanted gone last year and the year before that and it's not like he's gotten markedly better. Hot garbage is...well...still garbage.

[laurens]

 

Why the sudden hatred towards Theriot? Looking at the 2009 Cubs with injuries, payroll issues, and mental health problems and you guys want to gang up on Theriot? I can think of at least 10 guys on the roster that I have issues with before I would get to Theriot.

 

Because he's not good? And yes he not the biggest issue with the team currently but he's still the same guy who everyone wanted gone last year and the year before that and it's not like he's gotten markedly better. Hot garbage is...well...still garbage.

 

He's not garbage. He's average. There's nothing wrong with average. Of course there are better options out there, but Theriot isn't someone that I would absolutely want to get rid of in the offseason. If he's gone fine, I hope they replace him with someone decent. If he's still there, I wouldn't mind.

[Cubs Fan Dan]

Sorry, my initial thoughts were if the Cubs had already upgraded at SS or 2B. I agree Theriot is inexpensive and has produced a little bit but to me is a guy this team would not really miss if we can get a piece or 2 for him. Maybe not necessarily Delmon Young but if Hendry does target a Figgins, Hudson, or someone of that caliber, why not try to use Theriot to upgrade elsewhere and go for defense at SS with Blanco?

[Backtobanks]

 

Why the sudden hatred towards Theriot? Looking at the 2009 Cubs with injuries, payroll issues, and mental health problems and you guys want to gang up on Theriot? I can think of at least 10 guys on the roster that I have issues with before I would get to Theriot.

 

Because he's not good? And yes he not the biggest issue with the team currently but he's still the same guy who everyone wanted gone last year and the year before that and it's not like he's gotten markedly better. Hot garbage is...well...still garbage.

 

Who are you going to replace him with? Will giving up 3-4 players to get someone like Reyes and pay him a ton of money make the Cubs into WS winners? Theriot is a role player that fits pretty well in the Cubs framework. He's not a guy who can carry the team alone for a few weeks, but how many shortstops can? He was the everyday SS on a 97 win team last year and would have done the same this year if some of his team mates could have stayed off the DL, produced as expected, and used their bats to hit baseballs instead of Gatoraide machines.

[CyHawk_Cub]

 

Why the sudden hatred towards Theriot? Looking at the 2009 Cubs with injuries, payroll issues, and mental health problems and you guys want to gang up on Theriot? I can think of at least 10 guys on the roster that I have issues with before I would get to Theriot.

 

Because he's not good? And yes he not the biggest issue with the team currently but he's still the same guy who everyone wanted gone last year and the year before that and it's not like he's gotten markedly better. Hot garbage is...well...still garbage.

 

He's not garbage. He's average. There's nothing wrong with average. Of course there are better options out there, but Theriot isn't someone that I would absolutely want to get rid of in the offseason. If he's gone fine, I hope they replace him with someone decent. If he's still there, I wouldn't mind.

 

Pretty much sums up how I feel about Theriot.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Why the sudden hatred towards Theriot? Looking at the 2009 Cubs with injuries, payroll issues, and mental health problems and you guys want to gang up on Theriot? I can think of at least 10 guys on the roster that I have issues with before I would get to Theriot.

 

Because he's not good? And yes he not the biggest issue with the team currently but he's still the same guy who everyone wanted gone last year and the year before that and it's not like he's gotten markedly better. Hot garbage is...well...still garbage.

 

Who are you going to replace him with? Will giving up 3-4 players to get someone like Reyes and pay him a ton of money make the Cubs into WS winners? Theriot is a role player that fits pretty well in the Cubs framework. He's not a guy who can carry the team alone for a few weeks, but how many shortstops can? He was the everyday SS on a 97 win team last year and would have done the same this year if some of his team mates could have stayed off the DL, produced as expected, and used their bats to hit baseballs instead of Gatoraide machines.

 

Being the starting SS on a 97 win team is meaningless in and of itself. Theriot took a step back this year. And going on 30, typically a bad age for middle infielders especially mediocre ones like Theriot isn't a good thing. He's mediocrity personified.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Theriot is the gritty little white infielder we never had. For years weve watched guys like David Eckstein, Craig Counsell, and others who I cant think of seemingly get a hit every time they came to bat against us, and wondered why we didnt have such a player. Well here he is. Im OK with him hitting for average at the top or bottom of the lineup and let the guys in the middle of the lineup put up the power numbers.

[muntjack]

Ryan Theriot's numbers are actually below the average SS this year. Factor in that the league average is weighed down by some defensive wizards and it is fair to call Ryan Theriot a hole. If you have a .715 OPS you need to have stellar defense at SS.

[Backtobanks]

 

Why the sudden hatred towards Theriot? Looking at the 2009 Cubs with injuries, payroll issues, and mental health problems and you guys want to gang up on Theriot? I can think of at least 10 guys on the roster that I have issues with before I would get to Theriot.

 

Because he's not good? And yes he not the biggest issue with the team currently but he's still the same guy who everyone wanted gone last year and the year before that and it's not like he's gotten markedly better. Hot garbage is...well...still garbage.

 

Who are you going to replace him with? Will giving up 3-4 players to get someone like Reyes and pay him a ton of money make the Cubs into WS winners? Theriot is a role player that fits pretty well in the Cubs framework. He's not a guy who can carry the team alone for a few weeks, but how many shortstops can? He was the everyday SS on a 97 win team last year and would have done the same this year if some of his team mates could have stayed off the DL, produced as expected, and used their bats to hit baseballs instead of Gatoraide machines.

 

Being the starting SS on a 97 win team is meaningless in and of itself. Theriot took a step back this year. And going on 30, typically a bad age for middle infielders especially mediocre ones like Theriot isn't a good thing. He's mediocrity personified.

 

So answer my question: Who are you going to replace him with? After answering that question, tell me the impact on the team of trading players to get a replacement and then paying the replacement big dollars.

 

 

Theriot is the gritty little white infielder we never had. For years weve watched guys like David Eckstein, Craig Counsell, and others who I cant think of seemingly get a hit every time they came to bat against us, and wondered why we didnt have such a player. Well here he is. Im OK with him hitting for average at the top or bottom of the lineup and let the guys in the middle of the lineup put up the power numbers.

 

Basically my point when I said he's not even close to being the biggest problem on this team.

[Jehrico]

This absolute narrow-analysis of Theriot is overblown. First, it seems that in order for somebody to be "good," they have to be an all-star. Second, some of you act like OPS is the end-all-be-all stat. I can handle a lower OPS if it's low because of a lack of power at a non-power position.

 

Theriot was second amongst SSs in all of baseball in OBP last year. I'll take the low OPS and marginally adequate defense with that. This year, his average and his walks are down. So is nearly everyone else's on the team not named DLee or Kosuke. Before passing final judgement on him that he's a "bad" player, I'll look at the whole picture. His career, short as it is, has been kind of Farnsworthian to this point (up in 2006 in limited at bats, down in 07, up in 08, down in 09). They average out. He's a career .350+ OBP hitter, and there's no reason to expect he can't continue that for maybe a couple more years. Like many other decent role-playing starters, you take the good with the bad with him. When he's down, he's still better than Neifi ever was. When he's up, he's easily above average.

 

He's no all star, this is a down year, but there are far bigger problems on this team, and he's still easily a usable player. He's not the Macias-level of suck like some of you are making him out to be.

 

That said, I'd move him in a heartbeat in a deal that improves us, especially considering that he's the kind of guy whose perceived value is probably higher than his real value to the team right now.

[Backtobanks]

For the Theriot-bashers (fromMLBTR):

 

Free Agent Market: Shortstops

By Tim Dierkes [september 9 at 3:52pm CST]

Today let's take a look at the free agent market for shortstops.

 

Marco Scutaro is the OBP leader at .377. He's racked up 83 walks in 639 plate appearances. After him we get down to Omar Vizquel and Miguel Tejada in the .330 range. Scott Boras client Alex Cora was at .371 in limited duty last year, but he's down to .320 in '09.

Good luck finding power - you've got Tejada with a .435 SLG, and then Scutaro at .409.

Defense is crucial at shortstop. UZR/150 likes Jack Wilson (club option), Alex Gonzalez (club option), Scutaro, and Adam Everett (of course). In his top ten heading into the season, the Fielding Bible's John Dewan ranked Wilson, Everett, Omar Vizquel, and John McDonald in his top ten.

Felipe Lopez last spent significant time at shortstop in 2007; it'd be a big gamble to use him there consistently.

If you're looking for youth, Lopez, Bobby Crosby and Khalil Greene will be 30 years old next season.

Scutaro, Orlando Cabrera, and Lopez project as Type A free agents. Wilson and Tejada project as Bs. Given his contributions on offense and defense, Scutaro is the prize of the free agent shortstop class.

 

Taking into account the better FA shortstops are type A, I don't see anybody there to get excited about. I guess we're going to have to go for a trade. :-k

[Halman]

If you're looking for youth, Lopez, Bobby Crosby and Khalil Greene will be 30 years old next season.

 

Yes please :D

 

but seriously, I overstated theriot is not garbage but he is a mediocrity. A serious contender can't have a mediocrity out there unless they have a really elite player at another position.

[Cubbie Swagger]

What did Theriot ever do wrong? Any team would love to have a guy who is cheap who hits .300, gets on base, and steals a base every now and then. He's also been probably the most consistent Cub for the last 2 seasons. I realize his range and arm pretty much suck, but I don't consider shortstop to be a weakness on this team. We can still win with Theriot.

 

In fact, I think Theriot would be one of the last of our offensive players I'd get rid of. Ramirez is a keeper, and I'd like to see what happens with Geo, but other than that, I'd say the rest of the lineup is pretty expendable. I would even consider selling high on Lee if we could get a really good deal for him. But Theriot... I would hang on to. IMHO, he's valuable to the team, and I also don't think we'd get enough return for him to justify a trade. He's certainly worth more than a backup OF'er.

[UMFan83]

I don't know why people are so passionately defending Ryan Theriot...he's a below average SS who can be replaced but isn't a big enough hole that he absolutely has to be replaced. To be honest, I don't care about his OPS, OBP or whatever. I care about his defense and his baserunning. I would like to replace Theriot with someone who can play above average defense and have at least a .700 OPS.

[Halman]

What did Theriot ever do wrong? Any team would love to have a guy who is cheap who hits .300, gets on base, and steals a base every now and then.

 

:banghead:

 

Except he doesn't hit .300 and doesn't walk enough and his baserunning is flat out pierreian. Throw in the fact with his bad defense and he's at best a league average SS in a good year.

 

But the cubs need his ecksteiney hustle.

[Backtobanks]

If you're looking for youth, Lopez, Bobby Crosby and Khalil Greene will be 30 years old next season.

 

Yes please :D

 

but seriously, I overstated theriot is not garbage but he is a mediocrity. A serious contender can't have a mediocrity out there unless they have a really elite player at another position.

 

Khalil Greene - just what we need, another head case.

 

As for your quote about serious contenders, every team has at least one "mediocre" guy in the lineup and the vast majority of those guys don't have stats anywhere near Theriot's.

[Halman]

I guess I should've put the greene part in green. Because I know Greene sucks worse than theriot despite what some other posters have claimed in the past.

 

But lets look at the real contenders. NYY, BOS, PHI, STL, and LAD

 

All those teams have holes but they also have guys that are the best in baseball to hide guys like Brett Garnder, Khalil Greene/Brendan Ryan, or Carlos Ruiz. The cubs are closer to the rays where in everything has to go right to be successful. Because they have no one like Arod, Manny or Utley. The closest they have to that is Ramirez. And even then he's probably a tier lower than Arod and Wright.