Rich Harden

[radarluv1]

iirc last year he had guys jump ahead of him in the rotation to give extra time off. how come that approach hasnt been tried yet? i'm anxious to see how he does with extra rest before i would recommend a full shutdown or DL stint.

[UMFan83]

iirc last year he had guys jump ahead of him in the rotation to give extra time off. how come that approach hasnt been tried yet? i'm anxious to see how he does with extra rest before i would recommend a full shutdown or DL stint.

 

I believe he was on an extra day or two of rest on Friday due to the offday.

[DiamondMind]

His change up isn't that good when his fastball is average.

 

Exactly. I honestly don't think the Harden analyzation needs to go any deeper than this. He's hurt, period. And I don't mean velocity. His pitches are flattening out like pavement.

 

 

Whatever it is, I hope he can turn it around.

 

You and me both. :( He's fun to watch, and seems to be a pretty intense and likable guy.

[Fanatic3332000]

Either way (if we sign ryan or not) i dont see why you put marshall back in the rotation. B.J Ryan isn't going to come here and be unhittable or anything even if we do sign him. Keep Marshall as our left handed guy in our bullpen/emergency outfielder.

[Keener98]

Either way (if we sign ryan or not) i dont see why you put marshall back in the rotation. B.J Ryan isn't going to come here and be unhittable or anything even if we do sign him. Keep Marshall as our left handed guy in our bullpen/emergency outfielder.

 

 

Ryan wouldnt have to be unhittable, hed just have to be able to get a lefty or 2 out in a close game. Right now Marshall is a better option as a starter than Rich Harden. Until they figure out what is wrong with Harden, he really shouldnt be starting. If hes hurt DL him, if hes tipping his pitches or something, then fix it, but I trust Marshall to give us a quality start damn near each time out and keep us in the game, alot more than Harden at this point.

[dew1679666265]

Either way (if we sign ryan or not) i dont see why you put marshall back in the rotation. B.J Ryan isn't going to come here and be unhittable or anything even if we do sign him. Keep Marshall as our left handed guy in our bullpen/emergency outfielder.

 

Marshall is more valuable to the team as a starter than as a loogy. Lou really wants a loogy in the pen, though.

 

So, if Ryan can come in and be a serviceable loogy (or better), then that would allow Lou to feel comfortable moving Marshall back into the rotation, thus using Marshall more effectively.

[DiamondMind]

Just to add to this thread, I caught Sean in O'Hare yesterday after I was returning from Seattle (SAFECO Field freaking owns, btw). I gave him a quick "Hey, Sean" and that was it. He smiled and tipped his (Cubs) hat. He was with another guy in a Cubs hat who I didn't immediately recognize...maybe just a friend? Anyway, he was wearing normal clothes (no damn affliction t-shirt, thank god), was smiling, and seemed like some guy you'd meet on campus or something. Nice guy. Hope he excels in whatever position we have him in.

 

I should of asked him if he prefers left field to starting, in hindsight.

[17 Seconds]

i'm not all that familiar with how it's determined what type of free agent status you're given, so can somebody tell me what harden is looking like for this offseason? between his injury history and his rough season, is type A out of the question?

[Vanilla Ice]

i'm not all that familiar with how it's determined what type of free agent status you're given, so can somebody tell me what harden is looking like for this offseason? between his injury history and his rough season, is type A out of the question?

 

According to the guy who seems to have figured the formula out, Harden is pretty safely in the A range for now. Interestingly, with the move the NL, DeRosa has gotten much closer to Type A status.

[Guest]

i'm not all that familiar with how it's determined what type of free agent status you're given, so can somebody tell me what harden is looking like for this offseason? between his injury history and his rough season, is type A out of the question?

 

According to the guy who seems to have figured the formula out, Harden is pretty safely in the A range for now. Interestingly, with the move the NL, DeRosa has gotten much closer to Type A status.

 

But that assumes we offer him arbitration, right - i.e. it doesn't matter if he's a Type A or not if we don't offer him arbitration, just like with Woody.

[dew1679666265]

i'm not all that familiar with how it's determined what type of free agent status you're given, so can somebody tell me what harden is looking like for this offseason? between his injury history and his rough season, is type A out of the question?

 

According to the guy who seems to have figured the formula out, Harden is pretty safely in the A range for now. Interestingly, with the move the NL, DeRosa has gotten much closer to Type A status.

 

But that assumes we offer him arbitration, right - i.e. it doesn't matter if he's a Type A or not if we don't offer him arbitration, just like with Woody.

 

Right.

[Vanilla Ice]

It shouldn't cost that much if he takes arbitration this year, though.

[PrimeTime]

To me Rich Harden is seriously Mark Prior all over again..Theyre lethal when healthy, but then you gotta worry constanty worry about them..Very injury prone, velocity. Etc...

[Guest]

It shouldn't cost that much if he takes arbitration this year, though.

 

We could also have a Ben Sheets situation on our hands though.

 

How much do you expect him to get in arbitration? He's making $7M this year so I'd assume he'd get at least that much.

 

With the ownership situation and how much money is already committed to 2010, I'm not sure the Cubs will want to risk having him accept arbitration and won't even offer it.

[Vanilla Ice]

It shouldn't cost that much if he takes arbitration this year, though.

 

We could also have a Ben Sheets situation on our hands though.

 

How much do you expect him to get in arbitration? He's making $7M this year so I'd assume he'd get at least that much.

 

With the ownership situation and how much money is already committed to 2010, I'm not sure the Cubs will want to risk having him accept arbitration and won't even offer it.

I could see that, too. IIRC, the pitching market is really strong next winter. That could drive Harden's price down in the market and lead him to accept arbitration.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It shouldn't cost that much if he takes arbitration this year, though.

 

It can't be more than a 20% paycut.

 

If he doesn't improve in the second half, they can't possibly offer him arbitration.

[jersey cubs fan]

To me Rich Harden is seriously Mark Prior all over again..Theyre lethal when healthy, but then you gotta worry constanty worry about them..Very injury prone, velocity. Etc...

 

I think they are significantly different. Yes, injuries play a part in both, but Harden isn't missing seasons left and right. Harden is a little guy who probably has no chance of being a 200 IP pitcher on any consistent basis. Prior was destroyed by Dusty Baker in about a season and a half and is done. But Harden is still pitching, year after year, even if he misses significant time each season.

[jersey cubs fan]

iirc last year he had guys jump ahead of him in the rotation to give extra time off. how come that approach hasnt been tried yet? i'm anxious to see how he does with extra rest before i would recommend a full shutdown or DL stint.

 

I believe he was on an extra day or two of rest on Friday due to the offday.

 

He had one extra day last time out, following a disasterous start, which told me he needed more time. They could/should have had him starting Sunday on 7 days rest.

 

This year he has 8 starts on just 4 days rest, 4 on 5 days rest and 2 on 6 or more days. Last year he had only 9 starts on 4 days rest all season long, 8 on 5 days rest and 8 more on 6+ days of rest. It's absolutely ridiculous that they gave up on trying to give Harden more rest. I don't care that 4 is normal, everybody knew Harden couldn't handle a normal workload. It was said at the time that they were going to be extra cautious with him, but apparantly they decided to forget that plan in 2009. Why? Sure it sucks that a guy can't go every 5th day, giving you 34 starts and 220 innings. But we know Harden can't, so why are they trying to push him?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

ERA by rest, 2009 Rich Harden:

 

 

4 days: 6.30

5 days: 5.73

6+ days: 2.25

[gflore34]

Correct if I'm wrong but, I heard (it may have been from Steve Stone some time ago) that a tell tale sign of a pitcher being injured is not so much velocity as it is lack of control and movement. If true, that certain applies to Harden.

[soapy]

ERA by rest, 2009 Rich Harden:

 

 

4 days: 6.30

5 days: 5.73

6+ days: 2.25

 

2008:

4 days: 2.53

5 days: 1.24

6+ days: 2.47

 

career:

4: 3.77

5: 3.61

6+: 2.78

[gflore34]

ERA by rest, 2009 Rich Harden:

 

 

4 days: 6.30

5 days: 5.73

6+ days: 2.25

 

2008:

4 days: 2.53

5 days: 1.24

6+ days: 2.47

 

career:

4: 3.77

5: 3.61

6+: 2.78

 

Wow, given this it would seem the smart move, beyond DLing him and surgery, would be to makle certain he's goes on 6+ days rest for the remainder of the season. But, then again, when have our Cubbies ever been sharp in their handling of players?

[Sammy Sofa]

ERA by rest, 2009 Rich Harden:

 

 

4 days: 6.30

5 days: 5.73

6+ days: 2.25

 

2008:

4 days: 2.53

5 days: 1.24

6+ days: 2.47

 

career:

4: 3.77

5: 3.61

6+: 2.78

 

It's basically for this reason that a lot of us were happy with how the Cubs seemed to be indicating they were going to give Harden more rest throughout the seaosn, either by pushing his days back or skipping his turn in the rotation from time to time, but they didn't follow through will that at all. Outside of his DL time they've basically kept him on schedule for most of the season.