Halladay all but gone from Toronto (or not)

[Guancous]

You guys are crazy Cardinal fans. They have Vernon Wells who is better than Rasmus right now and Rasmus is nowhere near the value of Doc, nor will he ever be.

 

Wells: .731 OPS, .264 EqA

 

Rasmus: .823 OPS, .286 EqA

 

I don't think Rasmus alone would be enough for Halladay, but Rasmus is probably as good (or close to it) as Wells is right now.

 

Not to mention tens of millions of dollars cheaper. How much extra do you think the Cubs would have to give up if the Cubs traded Alfonso Soriano for Adam Lind?

[Guest]

You guys are crazy Cardinal fans. They have Vernon Wells who is better than Rasmus right now and Rasmus is nowhere near the value of Doc, nor will he ever be.

 

Wells: .731 OPS, .264 EqA

 

Rasmus: .823 OPS, .286 EqA

 

I don't think Rasmus alone would be enough for Halladay, but Rasmus is probably as good (or close to it) as Wells is right now.

Rasmus has played less than half a year of big league baseball.

[RedVerbs]

 

 

Yea I was in noway trying to say itd be Rasmus for Halladay straight up. Im saying Rasmus would be the starting point for me if Im the Jays, and then go from there, but he wouldnt be traded to Stl without Rasmus in the deal if Im Ricciardi.

 

If a heated race to land Halladay starts up, I'm not sure the Cards could put together a competitive offer even with Rasmus included.

 

J.P. is probably going to want quality player(s) to plug in at 1B, SS or 3B. STL can't really offer that.

 

 

I disagree Rasmus is a starting point. Before today's game he had the 11th highest WAR for position players in the NL. Not that it will happen, but Rasmus alone is more than enough to get the deal done.

 

Agreed. Rasmus and a lower level prospect for Halladay is well more than enough. I don't think people actually comprehend how good Rasmus is, in his rookie season at 22 years of age.

 

I wouldn't even think about trading Rasmus for any pitcher, but I would trade Wallace, Daryl Hones and anyone else they wanted in the minors for Halladay. Toronto drafted Wallace back in 2005 (But he went to college instead), so they would definitely seem to be interested in him.

You guys are crazy Cardinal fans. They have Vernon Wells who is better than Rasmus right now and Rasmus is nowhere near the value of Doc, nor will he ever be.

 

Are you joking right? Vernon Wells is one of the worst everday players in baseball right now.

 

Rasmus OPS .823

Wells OPS .731

 

Rasmus adjusted OPS 117

Wells adjusted OPS 91

 

Rasmus UZR 12.1

Wells UZR -19.1. MINUS 19.1!

 

Rasmus WAR 2.9

Wells WAR -0.8

 

I don't know on what planet Vernon Wells is even close to Colby Rasmus, but it certainly isn't the planet Earth. Not even factoring in age and contract, Rasmus is infinitely superior to Vernon Wells in every conceivable way.

[haubrich91]

I think Pujols for Halladay straight up sounds just about right. :P

[Roast]

I think Pujols for Halladay straight up sounds just about right. :P

I would need to change my pants if we found a way to get him out of this division. Definitely not happening, obviously, but still.

[dew1679666265]

You guys are crazy Cardinal fans. They have Vernon Wells who is better than Rasmus right now and Rasmus is nowhere near the value of Doc, nor will he ever be.

 

Wells: .731 OPS, .264 EqA

 

Rasmus: .823 OPS, .286 EqA

 

I don't think Rasmus alone would be enough for Halladay, but Rasmus is probably as good (or close to it) as Wells is right now.

Rasmus has played less than half a year of big league baseball.

 

Rasmus is only 22 and is outperforming Wells at the big league level. Wells has a proven track record of inconsistency throughout his career.

 

If you're talking about good Vernon Wells, then no, Rasmsus isn't as good as him right now. But right now we have the Vernon Wells who is OPSing .731 and is a negative defensively. Rasmus is better than that Vernon Wells right now.

[nwg414]

You guys are crazy Cardinal fans. They have Vernon Wells who is better than Rasmus right now and Rasmus is nowhere near the value of Doc, nor will he ever be.

 

Are you joking right? Vernon Wells is one of the worst everday players in baseball right now.

 

Rasmus OPS .823

Wells OPS .731

 

Rasmus adjusted OPS 117

Wells adjusted OPS 91

 

Rasmus UZR 12.1

Wells UZR -19.1. MINUS 19.1!

 

Rasmus WAR 2.9

Wells WAR -0.8

 

I don't know on what planet Vernon Wells is even close to Colby Rasmus, but it certainly isn't the planet Earth. Not even factoring in age and contract, Rasmus is infinitely superior to Vernon Wells in every conceivable way.

 

But how can anyone not take his terrible contract into account? It is probably the worst contract in baseball.

 

Wells - 30 years old

09 - 5.1

10 - 16.1

11 - 26.6

12 - 24.6

13 - 24.6

 

Rasmus - 22 years old

09 - 400K and his clock just started this year.

 

I'll take Rasmus everytime. He is currently outproducing him and isn't guaranteed 100 million over the next 5 years.

[wolf stansson]

Rasmus won't be going. It'll be Wallace.

 

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm16/dhohulin/strausstwit.jpg

[SouthSideRyan]

Wouldn't there have to be significant support from Ricciardi? And wouldn't he have to be incredibly stupid to show this support?

[Cubbie Swagger]

So if the Cards get Halladay and the Brewers get Vazquez, Jim Hendry really better do something. At least sign BJ Ryan or trade for a nice bat.

[wolf stansson]

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bernies-extra-points/bernies-extra-points/bernies-5-minutes/2009/07/july-8-roy-halladay-and-the-cardinals/

What the Jays Want: Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi is said to be seeking a trade that would bring several high-end prospects in return.

..

 

Are the Cardinals a Fit? Doubtful. They just don’t have an abundance of elite prospects. But Erik Manning of FutureRedbirds.net told me that the Blue Jays showed a lot of pre-draft interest in Brett Wallace and Pete Kozma, two prospects that landed in the St. Louis organization as first-round picks. Would Wallace and Kozma be enough to get it done? I doubt it. But what if the Cardinals threw in two other high-level prospects? Then things would get interesting. But you’d also be stripping away your farm system, and that goes against everything we’ve been told by owner Bill DeWitt and VP of Player Development Jeff Luhnow. These guys aren’t going to give away the farm for a short-term rental.

 

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2009/07/halladay_update.html

I have talked to a half-dozen baseball executives this morning and the general consensus is that the Phillies should be viewed as the front-runner if Roy Halladay does get traded.

..

St. Louis -- The feeling was that the Cardinal system has come a long way and probably now has enough to get a player like this. St. Louis is paying roughly $15 million in dead money this year to Troy Glaus and Adam Kennedy that comes off the books after the season; and Khalil Greene, Todd Wellemeyer and Rick Ankiel probably will go away, as well, providing another $13 million or so in savings. That would allow the Cardinals to more comfortably assume the $15.75 million Halladay is owed in 2010. It would form a dynamic 1-2 atop the rotation in Halladay and Carpenter, who broke in together as Blue Jays in the late 1990s. It would give St. Louis a gigantic boost in a winnable NL Central. And one AL executive added this: "Halladay is the kind of player the Cardinals have acquired over the years, who fell in love with the baseball passion of the city and decided to sign long term at reasonable dollars."

 

 

This stuff, plus the fact that Blue Jays would probably want to definitely get him out of the AL, leads me to think the Cardinals and Phillies have a good shot.

[RedVerbs]

The only problem is Luhnow loves his prospects, a little too much, imo.

 

I say 50% chance he goes to the Phillies

15% chance he goes to the Cardinals

30% chance he goes to one of the (Dodgers, Brewers, Rangers or Mets)

And 5% chance he stays with the Bluejays.

[SouthSideRyan]

Chances are way higher than 5 that he stays with the Blue Jays. The Blue Jays have no motivation to trade him unless they get blown away. Nobody is blowing anyone away with prospects recently.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Despite the fact that they're in the AL, I hear the Angels are a pretty strong contender.

[chopsx9]

Saw a headline on ESPN that Wells would be part of the deal. It was an insider story. Anybody able to read it?

Does this change the likely teams>

[Maclowery]

I believe the quote was taken out of context; initially it was some NYPost blog that said that in order for the Yankees to be considered, they would have to also take on Wells' absurd contract. ie, Halladay won't stay in-division without coming with a huge financial anchor attached.

 

I still think the Blue Jays keep him. Assuming the Phillies get Pedro, I imagine they won't push hard for Halladay. I certainly don't expect the Cardinals' front office to okay a trade that big. Maybe the Angels, Dodgers, or Rangers somehow swoop in.

 

I basically don't want him to go to the Brewers.

[A-Cal]

i would love for the rangers to land him, but they would want justin smoak.

 

maybe they could be hoodwinked into thinking chris davis is the REAL justin smoak.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I believe the quote was taken out of context; initially it was some NYPost blog that said that in order for the Yankees to be considered, they would have to also take on Wells' absurd contract. ie, Halladay won't stay in-division without coming with a huge financial anchor attached.

 

I still think the Blue Jays keep him. Assuming the Phillies get Pedro, I imagine they won't push hard for Halladay. I certainly don't expect the Cardinals' front office to okay a trade that big. Maybe the Angels, Dodgers, or Rangers somehow swoop in.

 

I basically don't want him to go to the Brewers.

 

Id rather have him on the Brewers than the Cards. Im still not fully sold on Gallardo as a legit ace, and even if he is that still leaves the Brewers with only 2 good pitchers.

 

As for the Cardinals, if they have Carpenter, Doc, Wainwright, and Lohse and Piniero keep their pixie dust, they will not be fun.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Saw a headline on ESPN that Wells would be part of the deal. It was an insider story. Anybody able to read it?

Does this change the likely teams>

 

If true, moneterily, the only NL teams I could see swinging it are the Phillies, Mets, and maybe the Dodgers. Wells contract is a mess and a half and I cant see the Cards or Brewers having the finances for it.

[XZero771679666304]

Saw a headline on ESPN that Wells would be part of the deal. It was an insider story. Anybody able to read it?

Does this change the likely teams>

 

If true, moneterily, the only NL teams I could see swinging it are the Phillies, Mets, and maybe the Dodgers. Wells contract is a mess and a half and I cant see the Cards or Brewers having the finances for it.

 

Pretty much. If taking Wells is a condition for getting Halladay, the Cards and Crew can just forget it. Wells' contract is massively back loaded. Vernon just isn't that good, and that contract could really cripple a mid/small market teams financial flexibility.

 

Asking a team to take that on might be asking too much, IMO.

[XZero771679666304]

 

 

Yea I was in noway trying to say itd be Rasmus for Halladay straight up. Im saying Rasmus would be the starting point for me if Im the Jays, and then go from there, but he wouldnt be traded to Stl without Rasmus in the deal if Im Ricciardi.

 

If a heated race to land Halladay starts up, I'm not sure the Cards could put together a competitive offer even with Rasmus included.

 

J.P. is probably going to want quality player(s) to plug in at 1B, SS or 3B. STL can't really offer that.

 

 

I disagree Rasmus is a starting point. Before today's game he had the 11th highest WAR for position players in the NL. Not that it will happen, but Rasmus alone is more than enough to get the deal done.

 

Agreed. Rasmus and a lower level prospect for Halladay is well more than enough. I don't think people actually comprehend how good Rasmus is, in his rookie season at 22 years of age.

 

I wouldn't even think about trading Rasmus for any pitcher, but I would trade Wallace, Daryl Hones and anyone else they wanted in the minors for Halladay. Toronto drafted Wallace back in 2005 (But he went to college instead), so they would definitely seem to be interested in him.

You guys are crazy Cardinal fans. They have Vernon Wells who is better than Rasmus right now and Rasmus is nowhere near the value of Doc, nor will he ever be.

 

If anyone thinks Colby Rasmus alone or as the centerpiece will net Roy Halladay, they are freaking nuts. What you are talking about is the best pitcher in the game (arguably), with another year on his contract, in a thin SP market.

 

Several teams could, would and will blow an offer of Rasmus alone out of the water. Hell, teams will offer more than Rasmus and Wallace.

[RedFlash]

I've watch Colby Rasmus, his brother Cory, play baseball in Alabama for a long time. Both lead the Phenix City team to the Little League World Series in 1999, a game they would lose. Along with Kasey Kiker (that is three future 1st or Supp. 1st rd picks on one high school team in Alabama. A rarity in this state) led Russell County to the State Championship IN 2005 over my high school. Suffice to say, nobody is surprise about Rasmus success in baseball.

 

With that said......as talented as Rasmus is, and boy is he...to think him alone could land the Cards Doc Halladay is ridiculous.

[Backtobanks]

Saw a headline on ESPN that Wells would be part of the deal. It was an insider story. Anybody able to read it?

Does this change the likely teams>

 

If true, moneterily, the only NL teams I could see swinging it are the Phillies, Mets, and maybe the Dodgers. Wells contract is a mess and a half and I cant see the Cards or Brewers having the finances for it.

 

Pretty much. If taking Wells is a condition for getting Halladay, the Cards and Crew can just forget it. Wells' contract is massively back loaded. Vernon just isn't that good, and that contract could really cripple a mid/small market teams financial flexibility.

 

Asking a team to take that on might be asking too much, IMO.

 

 

I'm sure Wells won't be a condition to a Halladay deal simply because you've now made Halladay's trade value diminish immensely. No team is going to take on an extra

$100 million for 1 1/2 years of Halladay. The only way this would work is for the Jays to take back a bad contract (less than Wells) and get prospects, which would be pointless. There would be a better chance if they made Rios a condition in a Halladay deal, but it still wouldn't be very likely.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Saw a headline on ESPN that Wells would be part of the deal. It was an insider story. Anybody able to read it?

Does this change the likely teams>

 

If true, moneterily, the only NL teams I could see swinging it are the Phillies, Mets, and maybe the Dodgers. Wells contract is a mess and a half and I cant see the Cards or Brewers having the finances for it.

 

Pretty much. If taking Wells is a condition for getting Halladay, the Cards and Crew can just forget it. Wells' contract is massively back loaded. Vernon just isn't that good, and that contract could really cripple a mid/small market teams financial flexibility.

 

Asking a team to take that on might be asking too much, IMO.

 

 

I'm sure Wells won't be a condition to a Halladay deal simply because you've now made Halladay's trade value diminish immensely. No team is going to take on an extra

$100 million for 1 1/2 years of Halladay. The only way this would work is for the Jays to take back a bad contract (less than Wells) and get prospects, which would be pointless. There would be a better chance if they made Rios a condition in a Halladay deal, but it still wouldn't be very likely.

 

Keep in mind, the Jays dont need to deal Halladay, but they're taking offers. They know a lot of the interested parties, such as Angels, Dodgers, Mets, and Phillies have money to spare. This might make the injury depleted Mets a pretty good fit, not only would they have the best 1-2 pitching combo since Maddux and Glavine but they also get an outfielder who might be able to refind himself on a new team.

[RedVerbs]

There isn't a team giving up a top 5 prospect that's all ready semi established in the majors at 22, plus another top 50 prospect for a 32 year old pitcher, no matter how good he is. You dudes are ODing right now. I'm not sure what the Blujays want but if its all of that, they are delusional.

 

I highly doubt the Cards will have to add Rasmus to get Halladay.

 

A deal centered around Wallace could get it done, or one centered around Wainwright.