Soriano leaving leadoff spot?

[Banedon]

But how many of those runs are from the 1st month or so when he was red hot compared to the past few when hes been, well, not.

 

Sure...and I don't have a problem with moving him down while he's in this bad of a slump. But as far as overall, he's been one of the best Runs/AB leadoff hitters the last couple of years. I couldn't find those stats specifically, but just looking at the Runs Scored rankings the last couple of seasons, almost everyone that has scored more than him did so because they got about 200 more AB's...due to Soriano's injuries.

 

He's no doubt not your "prototypical" leadoff hitter...but I don't think there's a lot of evidence that they do the job a whole lot better than Soriano (when he's not ice cold).

[soapy]

the bottom line is, when he's on, he's one of their best hitters (and is easily their best during some of his hot streaks). for the most part, i want my best hitters getting the most PA. therefore, i've never really had a problem with Soriano leading off.

 

having said that, he definitely shouldn't be there now and i'm glad he's been moved down.

[abuck1220]

And yeah, I would rather have a walk than a solo homer.

 

LOVE THIS.

[Tracer Bullet]

so...because he has hit 3 leadoff homeruns in the last three years, you guys want him to still hit leadoff? Even w/ his dreadful OBP? Wow. And yeah, I would rather have a walk than a solo homer. Why? Because you have to be incredibly dense to think that a homer will happen more often than a walk followed by a run scored at some point in the inning following the walk.

 

I just want to highlight this part. I'm not sure any of us know exactly what we're dealing with here. The quoted is ridiculous and there's no justification for it. None. You should never, ever, prefer that your player walk rather than hit a HR. Never.

[abuck1220]

the reasoning behind the statement is even better than the statement.

[jersey cubs fan]

the reasoning behind the statement is even better than the statement.

 

I just have no idea what it is supposed to mean.

[rocket]

because drawing a leadoff walk, stealing 2nd, moving to 3rd on the groundout to 2nd, and scoring on a sac fly is how baseball is supposed to be played, dammit. get the whole team involved! screw soriano scoring a run without wasting 2 outs, he's only thinking of himself

[Tyrant]

And yeah, I would rather have a walk than a solo homer.

 

LOVE THIS.

 

Home runs are rally killers. Duh.

[CyHawk_Cub]

My head hurts after reading he-who-shall-not-be-named's rationales.

[Old Style]

In the olden days, hitting the ball over the fence resulted in an out. I would much rather have a walk than an out.

[SouthSideRyan]

A couple years back, Tim McCarver during some game, is talking about the leadoff walk vs. the leadoff HR. Says he had stats inc. look into it for him as far as what innings score more runs, those with a leadoff walk vs. those with a leadoff HR. He says "and it surprised me, apparently teams score more in innings with leadoff HRs than leadoff walks."

 

It surprised him that 1 run scored, nobody on leads to more runs than 0 runs scored 1 man on 1st.

[Sammy Sofa]

HOMES RUNS ARE SELFISH, SON.

[jersey cubs fan]

HOMES RUNS ARE SELFISH, SON.

 

and strikeouts are fascist

[Sammy Sofa]

anyone but sorry-ano there works for me. We've seen his ineptness there long enough. He has no plate discipline, no mindset for hitting there, does not take pitches, etc...etc. His solo leadoff homerun record is his problem in a nutshell. it's all about his stats & not about what leadoff men are supposed to do...get on base so you can be knocked in.

 

So a leadoff hitter knocking themselves in (not that Soriano has been doing that for almost 2 months) is unacceptable?

 

Id rather have a leadoff guy that will consistantly get on base than 1 who will hit the occasional home run but more often than not K on 3 pitches or ground weakly to SS on the 1st or 2nd pitch. Will Kosuke consistantly get on base? Time will tell.

 

Thing about Soriano is, when hes hot, Ill take him anywhere in the first 5 lineup spots, but when hes cold, I want him nowhere near the lineup.

 

Soriano is 7th in the MLB in run scored from the leadoff spot. Isn't it kind of silly to complain about HOW he's scoring the runs?

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=109&league=mlb&season=2009&seasonType=2&sort=runs&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=all&startDate=null&endDate=null&minpa=0

 

But how many of those runs are from the 1st month or so when he was red hot compared to the past few when hes been, well, not.

 

So we're only supposed to evaluate his performance as a leadoff hitter from the last two months?

 

You're not finding anyone here who wants him up there during this prolonged slump. This current conversation stems from wrigley23's rants about how Soriano should NEVER be a leadoff hitter and how he's ALWAYS a detriment when he's hitting up there. As a whole, Soriano has been one of the most productive leadoff hitters in baseball in terms of scoring runs. That's ultimately the bottom line of what you want a leadoff hitter to do. How they do it is essentially incidental so long as it gets done.

[abuck1220]

yeah, but how many of those homeruns were hit when he didn't hit a homerun?

 

ANSWER: ZERO.

[Sammy Sofa]

DAMN.

 

That's selfish to the max.

[Tracer Bullet]

A couple years back, Tim McCarver during some game, is talking about the leadoff walk vs. the leadoff HR. Says he had stats inc. look into it for him as far as what innings score more runs, those with a leadoff walk vs. those with a leadoff HR. He says "and it surprised me, apparently teams score more in innings with leadoff HRs than leadoff walks."

 

It surprised him that 1 run scored, nobody on leads to more runs than 0 runs scored 1 man on 1st.

 

That was the prime of the "who is dumber: Joe Morgan or Tim McCarver" era. I miss the glory days.

[Keener98]

So whos to blame for this ridiculous nonsense that has continued to be written about, and talked about by fans, that Soriano only wanted to hit leadoff since he got here? Media members and some fans have constantly said it, yet Sori has said the exact opposite since he became a Cub. Its absurd, and Sori has consistently said hes 100% about the team, and if the team is winning, thats all he cares about.

[Keener98]

so...because he has hit 3 leadoff homeruns in the last three years, you guys want him to still hit leadoff? Even w/ his dreadful OBP? Wow. And yeah, I would rather have a walk than a solo homer. Why? Because you have to be incredibly dense to think that a homer will happen more often than a walk followed by a run scored at some point in the inning following the walk.

 

This is pure golden. Wow.

[Butterscup1679666578]

So whos to blame for this ridiculous nonsense that has continued to be written about, and talked about by fans, that Soriano only wanted to hit leadoff since he got here? Media members and some fans have constantly said it, yet Sori has said the exact opposite since he became a Cub. Its absurd, and Sori has consistently said hes 100% about the team, and if the team is winning, thats all he cares about.

 

I was basically going to say the same thing. Soriano may be lazy, and he may be a show-boater, but he's always said he'll do whatever it takes for the team to win.

[Derwood]

wrigley23 is totally right. I'd even go so far as to say that batting him 6th isn't taking it far enough. Any time after the first inning that Soriano is slated to lead off, Lou should pinch-hit for him immediately.

[jersey cubs fan]

So whos to blame for this ridiculous nonsense that has continued to be written about, and talked about by fans, that Soriano only wanted to hit leadoff since he got here? Media members and some fans have constantly said it, yet Sori has said the exact opposite since he became a Cub. Its absurd, and Sori has consistently said hes 100% about the team, and if the team is winning, thats all he cares about.

 

I was basically going to say the same thing. Soriano may be lazy, and he may be a show-boater, but he's always said he'll do whatever it takes for the team to win.

 

Maybe Lou for constantly saying that's where Soriano is most comfortable, and for experimenting with changing then going right back to putting him at leadoff because he's uncomfortable elsewhere.

 

And it doesn't help that he balked at moving to LF while with Washington and actually refused to take the field. He had the reputation of a guy who would fight a manager's decision to move him around.

[Arnold Layne]

because drawing a leadoff walk, stealing 2nd, moving to 3rd on the groundout to 2nd, and scoring on a sac fly is how baseball is supposed to be played, dammit. get the whole team involved! screw soriano scoring a run without wasting 2 outs, he's only thinking of himself

 

 

Yeah, sit on him judge! Keep that sub .300 OBP at the leadoff spot where it belongs!

[Tracer Bullet]

So whos to blame for this ridiculous nonsense that has continued to be written about, and talked about by fans, that Soriano only wanted to hit leadoff since he got here? Media members and some fans have constantly said it, yet Sori has said the exact opposite since he became a Cub. Its absurd, and Sori has consistently said hes 100% about the team, and if the team is winning, thats all he cares about.

 

I was basically going to say the same thing. Soriano may be lazy, and he may be a show-boater, but he's always said he'll do whatever it takes for the team to win.

 

Maybe Lou for constantly saying that's where Soriano is most comfortable, and for experimenting with changing then going right back to putting him at leadoff because he's uncomfortable elsewhere.

 

And it doesn't help that he balked at moving to LF while with Washington and actually refused to take the field. He had the reputation of a guy who would fight a manager's decision to move him around.

 

Moving from 2B to LF is a bigger change for a player than moving from 1st to any other spot in the lineup. It may be relevant if there's a pattern of "me before the team" attitude, but I don't remember a list of such things (btw - was it Michael Young that refused to move from SS to 3B for Texas this year until a teammate called him and either convinced him to change his mind or bitched him out? Don't remember a huge to-do in Texas all year about how selfish he is).

 

He's said pretty clearly that he'd hit anywhere Lou put him. It's somewhat the media, but primarily fans who buried their heads in the sand and ignored anything that didn't fit with their pre-conceived notions of Soriano's selfishness.

[Sammy Sofa]

because drawing a leadoff walk, stealing 2nd, moving to 3rd on the groundout to 2nd, and scoring on a sac fly is how baseball is supposed to be played, dammit. get the whole team involved! screw soriano scoring a run without wasting 2 outs, he's only thinking of himself

 

 

Yeah, sit on him judge! Keep that sub .300 OBP at the leadoff spot where it belongs!

 

Because that's clearly what everyone is saying here, wrigley24.