Soriano leaving leadoff spot?

[Butterscup1679666578]

So whos to blame for this ridiculous nonsense that has continued to be written about, and talked about by fans, that Soriano only wanted to hit leadoff since he got here? Media members and some fans have constantly said it, yet Sori has said the exact opposite since he became a Cub. Its absurd, and Sori has consistently said hes 100% about the team, and if the team is winning, thats all he cares about.

 

I was basically going to say the same thing. Soriano may be lazy, and he may be a show-boater, but he's always said he'll do whatever it takes for the team to win.

 

Maybe Lou for constantly saying that's where Soriano is most comfortable, and for experimenting with changing then going right back to putting him at leadoff because he's uncomfortable elsewhere.

 

And it doesn't help that he balked at moving to LF while with Washington and actually refused to take the field. He had the reputation of a guy who would fight a manager's decision to move him around.

 

While true, he's been nothing but 100% for the team since he came to the Cubs.

 

And guys stop quoting wrigley23's posts. I have him on ignore for a reason kthx.

[Arnold Layne]

So we're only supposed to evaluate his performance as a leadoff hitter from the last two months?

 

You're not finding anyone here who wants him up there during this prolonged slump. This current conversation stems from wrigley23's rants about how Soriano should NEVER be a leadoff hitter and how he's ALWAYS a detriment when he's hitting up there. As a whole, Soriano has been one of the most productive leadoff hitters in baseball in terms of scoring runs. That's ultimately the bottom line of what you want a leadoff hitter to do. How they do it is essentially incidental so long as it gets done.

 

 

Here's a very nice set of reasons why Soriano should never be put back at leadoff:

 

.213 BA .263 OBP .299 SLG .562 OPS 174 AB Some nice playoff numbers there.

 

This defense of Soriano at leadoff simply needs to end. It hasn't worked for the Cubs. The Cubs have improved dramatically since removing him from that spot, and are now on a roll of sorts.

 

The leadoff hitter should have an OBP over .350. Making the pitcher throw more pitches so teammates can see what the pitcher has to offer "live" is also an important skill. Getting the pitch count up on playoff pitching is also important. There's more to that position than meets the eye.

 

Soriano should never bat there again.

[Sammy Sofa]

You're adorable.

[Arnold Layne]

You're adorable.

 

 

As well thought out as a Dusty Baker lineup.

[Derwood]

So we're only supposed to evaluate his performance as a leadoff hitter from the last two months?

 

You're not finding anyone here who wants him up there during this prolonged slump. This current conversation stems from wrigley23's rants about how Soriano should NEVER be a leadoff hitter and how he's ALWAYS a detriment when he's hitting up there. As a whole, Soriano has been one of the most productive leadoff hitters in baseball in terms of scoring runs. That's ultimately the bottom line of what you want a leadoff hitter to do. How they do it is essentially incidental so long as it gets done.

 

 

Here's a very nice set of reasons why Soriano should never be put back at leadoff:

 

.213 BA .263 OBP .299 SLG .562 OPS 174 AB Some nice playoff numbers there.

 

This defense of Soriano at leadoff simply needs to end. It hasn't worked for the Cubs. The Cubs have improved dramatically since removing him from that spot, and are now on a roll of sorts.

 

The leadoff hitter should have an OBP over .350. Making the pitcher throw more pitches so teammates can see what the pitcher has to offer "live" is also an important skill. Getting the pitch count up on playoff pitching is also important. There's more to that position than meets the eye.

 

Soriano should never bat there again.

 

and since the "leadoff" hitter leads off every inning, this is very very important.

[abuck1220]

There's more to that position than meets the eye.

 

 

thank goodness you're here to enlighten us simpletons.

[abuck1220]

also, lol to calling leadoff a position.

[Derwood]

fun fact: In the 3 games since Fukudome was moved to the "leadoff" spot, he has only lead off an inning 2 more times than Soriano (7-5).

[rocket]

because drawing a leadoff walk, stealing 2nd, moving to 3rd on the groundout to 2nd, and scoring on a sac fly is how baseball is supposed to be played, dammit. get the whole team involved! screw soriano scoring a run without wasting 2 outs, he's only thinking of himself

 

 

Yeah, sit on him judge! Keep that sub .300 OBP at the leadoff spot where it belongs!

 

I never said I wanted Soriano leading off. All I said is that a lead off home run is a good thing.

[bcl412]

The whole who's hitting where in the lineup thing is kind of stupid considering it really is only set up for the first 3 innings at most.

[Derwood]

the point is that there are plenty of good reasons to have Soriano bat lower in the order. the possibility of hitting a leadoff homer is not one of them

[Sammy Sofa]

You're adorable.

 

 

As well thought out as a Dusty Baker lineup.

 

There's really little point in explaining yet again why it's piss-poor to construct a team and/or a lineup for the regular season around the tiny sample size of 6 playoff games since you show zero sign of realizing how ridiculous an idea that is. If you're looking at those games as the definitive "proof" as to how a player should be handled in the regular season then Aramis needs to be benched or traded or released ASAP.

[Banedon]

Ian Kinsler has 20hr's this year while batting leadoff. But his average is only .253 and his OBP is only .331. Nevermind that he's 4th in runs scored this year...3 behind the leader, Chone Figgins. No, he should be lowered in the lineup immediately.

[BigSlick]

You can always tell when the Cubs are doing better because we return to the same inane discussions that usually revolve around the same stupid arguments

 

So...cool I guess

[bcl412]

You can always tell when the Cubs are doing better because we return to the same inane discussions that usually revolve around the same stupid arguments

 

So...cool I guess

 

Meh, you can only have so many "deep" discussions about a game that really isn't all that complicated.

[kente777]

fun fact: In the 3 games since Fukudome was moved to the "leadoff" spot, he has only lead off an inning 2 more times than Soriano (7-5).

 

There may be some here talking about the "lead off" position as it applies to batting first...however, there are many others who understand that the higher you are in the line-up, the more at-bats you get. A player who is in a dreadful slump, should get less at-bats in a game.

 

Thank you.

[jersey cubs fan]

fun fact: In the 3 games since Fukudome was moved to the "leadoff" spot, he has only lead off an inning 2 more times than Soriano (7-5).

 

There may be some here talking about the "lead off" position as it applies to batting first...however, there are many others who understand that the higher you are in the line-up, the more at-bats you get. A player who is in a dreadful slump, should get less at-bats in a game.

 

Thank you.

 

The more PA you get, plus the more opportunity you get to have guys on base for guys who are actually hitting.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Meh, you can only have so many "deep" discussions about a game that really isn't all that complicated.

 

This. Baseball strategy really isn't that complicated, and most of the decisions don't matter in the end anyway.

[BeerHere]

fun fact: In the 3 games since Fukudome was moved to the "leadoff" spot, he has only lead off an inning 2 more times than Soriano (7-5).

 

There may be some here talking about the "lead off" position as it applies to batting first...however, there are many others who understand that the higher you are in the line-up, the more at-bats you get. A player who is in a dreadful slump, should get less at-bats in a game.

 

Thank you.

Agreed. Half way through the season and Soriano has been terrible. He needs to move down in the order and I think this was a good move by Lou.

[Arnold Layne]

You're adorable.

 

 

As well thought out as a Dusty Baker lineup.

 

There's really little point in explaining yet again why it's piss-poor to construct a team and/or a lineup for the regular season around the tiny sample size of 6 playoff games since you show zero sign of realizing how ridiculous an idea that is. If you're looking at those games as the definitive "proof" as to how a player should be handled in the regular season then Aramis needs to be benched or traded or released ASAP.

 

 

Those Soriano numbers were his enitre post season career. He's awful.

[dew1679666265]

You're adorable.

 

 

As well thought out as a Dusty Baker lineup.

 

There's really little point in explaining yet again why it's piss-poor to construct a team and/or a lineup for the regular season around the tiny sample size of 6 playoff games since you show zero sign of realizing how ridiculous an idea that is. If you're looking at those games as the definitive "proof" as to how a player should be handled in the regular season then Aramis needs to be benched or traded or released ASAP.

 

 

Those Soriano numbers were his enitre post season career. He's awful.

 

Which is a whole 172 ABs. And those ABs are split into 18-30 AB segments. There's too much volatility in small numbers like that to really make a good evaluation. 15 good at bats could increase just his average by 20-30 points. Small sample sizes aren't reliable indicators on what a player can do.

 

Should Vladimir Guerrero (.623 career postseason OPS) bat high in the order in the playoffs? Is he "awful" as you called Soriano?

[Sammy Sofa]

You're adorable.

 

 

As well thought out as a Dusty Baker lineup.

 

There's really little point in explaining yet again why it's piss-poor to construct a team and/or a lineup for the regular season around the tiny sample size of 6 playoff games since you show zero sign of realizing how ridiculous an idea that is. If you're looking at those games as the definitive "proof" as to how a player should be handled in the regular season then Aramis needs to be benched or traded or released ASAP.

 

 

Those Soriano numbers were his enitre post season career. He's awful.

 

Which is a whole 172 ABs. And those ABs are split into 18-30 AB segments. There's too much volatility in small numbers like that to really make a good evaluation. 15 good at bats could increase just his average by 20-30 points. Small sample sizes aren't reliable indicators on what a player can do.

 

Exactly. In no way should a player's playoff numbers EVER trump their regular season numbers when it comes to how they're played in the regular season. The number of playoff games being used to evalutae the player is moot since they'll never be more than a fraction of that player's career as a whole.

[dew1679666265]

Here are some interesting tidbits from players I consider to be good to great.

 

Ty Cobb career postseason OPS: .668

 

Mark McGwire career postseason OPS: .669

 

Todd Helton career postseason OPS: .615

 

Mike Schmidt career postseason OPS: .690

 

Jeff Bagwell career postseason OPS: .675

 

Craig Biggio career postseason OPS: .620

 

And some others who fared better, but not particularly well: Mike Piazza: .756, Miguel Cabrera: .786, Joe Dimaggio: .760

[Derwood]

Juan Pierre: .812 post-season OPS.

 

I smell a trade.....

[Arnold Layne]

You're adorable.

 

 

As well thought out as a Dusty Baker lineup.

 

There's really little point in explaining yet again why it's piss-poor to construct a team and/or a lineup for the regular season around the tiny sample size of 6 playoff games since you show zero sign of realizing how ridiculous an idea that is. If you're looking at those games as the definitive "proof" as to how a player should be handled in the regular season then Aramis needs to be benched or traded or released ASAP.

 

 

Those Soriano numbers were his enitre post season career. He's awful.

 

Which is a whole 172 ABs. And those ABs are split into 18-30 AB segments. There's too much volatility in small numbers like that to really make a good evaluation. 15 good at bats could increase just his average by 20-30 points. Small sample sizes aren't reliable indicators on what a player can do.

 

Should Vladimir Guerrero (.623 career postseason OPS) bat high in the order in the playoffs? Is he "awful" as you called Soriano?

 

Vlad also has a .329 OBP post season, which is not good, but not horrible either. Soriano is looking at a .263 OBP in the post season. He has proven he can't hit or get on base, which means there is no way he should bat leadoff in the post.

 

Should we stick Vlad in the leadoff spot?