Soriano leaving leadoff spot?

[dew1679666265]

OBP is not the only number of importance for a leadoff hitter, though. It's very important, but a guy batting in the first spot in the lineup only leads off an inning maybe a couple times a game - max. The idea is to get your best hitters as high in the lineup as is possible. The difference in number of at bats over the course of a season between the leadoff hitter and the #6 hitter, for instance, is in the hundreds of ABs. Lineup construction should be more about getting your best hitters as high in the lineup as possible because that is going to benefit you over the course of entire games.

 

Right. Get your most consistent hitters at the top. That is not Soriano. He's way too streaky to be batting in that spot, with too low of an OBP. There's also the importance of making a starting pitcher work a bit more, etc. That's not Soriano either.

 

The idea is to get your best hitters at the top of the lineup. Throughout the season that is Soriano. You can't then completely reorganize your lineup for the playoffs just because you have 100 ABs that say a certain player isn't good in them. Soriano has had good playoff series before - he can have them again.

 

When Soriano is doing well, I wouldn't be opposed to moving him down a bit in the lineup (no lower than top 3-4 spots, though). But, we would have to replace him with someone who is good enough to make good use of those extra 100-150 ABs over the course of a season. Not just someone who fits the traditional idea of a leadoff hitter - because he's only going to be in that position a couple times a game tops.

 

I don't think it's any coincidence that the Cubs had the best post season success with a traditional leadoff hitter in 2003(of course Wood and Prior were the main reason). Lofton was someone who had smart at bats, hitting the ball to all fields.

 

I think a consistent bat is important for the 1 hole, and in the playoffs when you are in these 1 run deathmatches, having someone with a brain getting the most at bats is a good thing. Soriano plays dumb baseball, and he sets that meme from the very beginning of every Cubs game.

 

Lofton had a .681 and .737 OPS in the two series in 2003. Those aren't awful numbers, but they're also not good enough to give him credit for us winning those series. Lofton also has a career .667 OPS in the postseason and a .315 OBP. He's been better than Soriano, but he hasn't been a particularly good playoff performer.

 

The Cubs won in 2003 because they had fantastic pitching and great hitting throughout the lineup.

[RammyFanny]

Don't know if it was mentioned but ESPN 1000 said that Lou told one of their guys that soon it will be Lee/Rammy/Sori 3,4,5.

[Sammy Sofa]

Don't know if it was mentioned but ESPN 1000 said that Lou told one of their guys that soon it will be Lee/Rammy/Sori 3,4,5.

 

If that's lead off by a Fukudome-Bradley 1-2 then me like.

[Keener98]

Don't know if it was mentioned but ESPN 1000 said that Lou told one of their guys that soon it will be Lee/Rammy/Sori 3,4,5.

 

If that's lead off by a Fukudome-Bradley 1-2 then me like.

 

As would I, but Ill be shocked if its not Theriot 2nd and Bradley 6.

[Arnold Layne]

I don't think it's any coincidence that the Cubs had the best post season success with a traditional leadoff hitter in 2003(of course Wood and Prior were the main reason). Lofton was someone who had smart at bats, hitting the ball to all fields.

 

I think a consistent bat is important for the 1 hole, and in the playoffs when you are in these 1 run deathmatches, having someone with a brain getting the most at bats is a good thing. Soriano plays dumb baseball, and he sets that meme from the very beginning of every Cubs game.

 

The leadoff hitter doesn't control the rest of the team, good or bad.

 

 

No, but a leadoff hitter should be a very consistent, "heads up" kind of hitter. Getting the guys on deck more live pitches at the beginning of the game , spraying the ball and OBP are pretty useful features for a leadoff man.

[Arnold Layne]

Don't know if it was mentioned but ESPN 1000 said that Lou told one of their guys that soon it will be Lee/Rammy/Sori 3,4,5.

 

 

Makes sense.

[Guest]

Don't know if it was mentioned but ESPN 1000 said that Lou told one of their guys that soon it will be Lee/Rammy/Sori 3,4,5.

 

If that's lead off by a Fukudome-Bradley 1-2 then me like.

 

As would I, but Ill be shocked if its not Theriot 2nd and Bradley 6.

 

Yeah, that's what I'd expect as well.

 

Fuku

Theriot

Lee

Rammy

Sori

Bradley

Soto/Font

Font/Hill

Pitcher

 

I could see Lou switching Bradley and Soriano because he wants to alternate lefties and righties.

[17 Seconds]

i'd like for wrigley23 to explain to me why we now have a leadoff hitter who has been hitting badass and drawing walks....but we still aren't scoring runs. i mean, it was all soriano's fault, right?

[Little Slide Rooter]

i'd like for wrigley23 to explain to me why we now have a leadoff hitter who has been hitting badass and drawing walks....but we still aren't scoring runs. i mean, it was all soriano's fault, right?

 

if there were such a thing as clutch hitting, Id chalk it up to a lack of it.

[dew1679666265]

I don't think it's any coincidence that the Cubs had the best post season success with a traditional leadoff hitter in 2003(of course Wood and Prior were the main reason). Lofton was someone who had smart at bats, hitting the ball to all fields.

 

I think a consistent bat is important for the 1 hole, and in the playoffs when you are in these 1 run deathmatches, having someone with a brain getting the most at bats is a good thing. Soriano plays dumb baseball, and he sets that meme from the very beginning of every Cubs game.

 

The leadoff hitter doesn't control the rest of the team, good or bad.

 

 

No, but a leadoff hitter should be a very consistent, "heads up" kind of hitter. Getting the guys on deck more live pitches at the beginning of the game , spraying the ball and OBP are pretty useful features for a leadoff man.

 

Those are good features, but those shouldn't be what you build your lineup around. You should put your best hitters at the top of the lineup so that they get the most at bats. Showing teammates live pitches is only useful one time a game - you shouldn't build your lineup around one at bat a game.

 

When Soriano is going good, he slugs in the mid .500s. I want him to get as many at bats as possible in those situations. Thus, I want him at the top of the order - and the leadoff spot is fine with me. If the other players don't see as many live pitches, but Soriano leads off the game with a double or home run, I'm perfectly happy with that tradeoff.

[abuck1220]

lol spraying the ball.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm trying to figure out what use "spraying the ball" would have for a leadoff hitter outside of OBP?

[Guest]

I don't think it's any coincidence that the Cubs had the best post season success with a traditional leadoff hitter in 2003(of course Wood and Prior were the main reason). Lofton was someone who had smart at bats, hitting the ball to all fields.

 

I think a consistent bat is important for the 1 hole, and in the playoffs when you are in these 1 run deathmatches, having someone with a brain getting the most at bats is a good thing. Soriano plays dumb baseball, and he sets that meme from the very beginning of every Cubs game.

 

The leadoff hitter doesn't control the rest of the team, good or bad.

 

 

No, but a leadoff hitter should be a very consistent, "heads up" kind of hitter. Getting the guys on deck more live pitches at the beginning of the game , spraying the ball and OBP are pretty useful features for a leadoff man.

 

As horrible as Soriano has been so far this year, he is still ahead of Theriot in runs scored. How can this be? Soriano has missed games, they are almost dead even in plate appearances and Theriot was literally on fire for a very lengthy part of the season while Soriano really hasn't ever caught that fire.

 

The power Soriano generates still scores more runs than a guy who "sprays the ball".

 

If Soriano can turn things around, I still like him in the lead off spot over any other hitter on the team.

[Banedon]

I'm trying to figure out what use "spraying the ball" would have for a leadoff hitter outside of OBP?

 

Well, have you ever seen anybody play 3 infielders on one side of the infield against Juan Pierre? No sir. Cuz he sprays the ball. No telling where that ground ball power is goin.

[dew1679666265]

I'm trying to figure out what use "spraying the ball" would have for a leadoff hitter outside of OBP?

 

Probably not being a dead pull hitter. A hitter who sprays the ball probably is a hitter who tries to hit some to the opposite field and pull some. Basically Ryan Theriot, I think.

 

I'm not certain on that, though.

[jersey cubs fan]

As horrible as Soriano has been so far this year, he is still ahead of Theriot in runs scored. How can this be? Soriano has missed games, they are almost dead even in plate appearances and Theriot was literally on fire for a very lengthy part of the season while Soriano really hasn't ever caught that fire.

 

Well that's your problem right there, you aren't going to be concerned with properly circling the bases and scoring if you are literally on fire.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm trying to figure out what use "spraying the ball" would have for a leadoff hitter outside of OBP?

 

Probably not being a dead pull hitter. A hitter who sprays the ball probably is a hitter who tries to hit some to the opposite field and pull some. Basically Ryan Theriot, I think.

 

I'm not certain on that, though.

 

But hitting to the opposite field is only useful for things like hit-and-runs and productive outs, which don't concern the leadoff man.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm trying to figure out what use "spraying the ball" would have for a leadoff hitter outside of OBP?

 

Probably not being a dead pull hitter. A hitter who sprays the ball probably is a hitter who tries to hit some to the opposite field and pull some. Basically Ryan Theriot, I think.

 

I'm not certain on that, though.

 

But hitting to the opposite field is only useful for things like hit-and-runs and productive outs, which don't concern the leadoff man.

 

That's wrong.

[dew1679666265]

I'm trying to figure out what use "spraying the ball" would have for a leadoff hitter outside of OBP?

 

Probably not being a dead pull hitter. A hitter who sprays the ball probably is a hitter who tries to hit some to the opposite field and pull some. Basically Ryan Theriot, I think.

 

I'm not certain on that, though.

 

But hitting to the opposite field is only useful for things like hit-and-runs and productive outs, which don't concern the leadoff man.

 

Doesn't Juan Pierre hit to the opposite field a lot?

 

Nevertheless, it can be useful if the pitcher is consistently pitching you away. It's not a prerequisite to leading off, though.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Nevertheless, it can be useful if the pitcher is consistently pitching you away. It's not a prerequisite to leading off, though.

 

At that point, you are talking about using it to help you get on base more consistently, and we were discussing the benefits *outside of OBP*.

[dew1679666265]

Nevertheless, it can be useful if the pitcher is consistently pitching you away. It's not a prerequisite to leading off, though.

 

At that point, you are talking about using it to help you get on base more consistently, and we were discussing the benefits *outside of OBP*.

 

Good point.

[jersey cubs fan]

Nevertheless, it can be useful if the pitcher is consistently pitching you away. It's not a prerequisite to leading off, though.

 

At that point, you are talking about using it to help you get on base more consistently, and we were discussing the benefits *outside of OBP*.

 

I don't know what "outside of OBP" is supposed to mean. But it can help your SLG as well. Trying to pull a lot of outside stuff will result in weak ground balls to the left side, while taking it the other way can result in doubles and even HR for some guys. Plus, it can force a pitcher to come inside more often if he's more frustrated, giving you a chance to pull stuff with authority.

 

Hitting opposite field is absolutely not "only useful for hit and runs and productive outs", but even so, just because a guy leads off the game it doesn't mean he can't do those things the rest of the game.

[Hawk4Hall]

Check out the comments by Lou that I found when the Cubs signed Soriano.

 

Cubs manager Lou Piniella said he plans to bat Soriano leadoff.

 

"He likes the leadoff spot and there is none better," Piniella said in an interview with WGN Radio. He called Soriano "a young man who can get on base and steal some bases and hit the ball for extra base power and hit it for a homer. We are talking about the best leadoff hitter in all of baseball."

 

I'm not so sure that was true even back then. :-k