Perry Fired; Von Joshua to Replace Him (p. 2)

[Backtobanks]

As others have posted, this is a move just to make a move. Whether Joshua or Perry is the better hitting coach is irrelevant, something had to be done.

 

doing something for the sake of doing something, without really caring about the quality of the decision is pretty horrendous managing.

 

It happens all the time in the business world to show that management is doing something about the problem. I'm not saying it's right, just that it's true.

 

As others have posted, this is a move just to make a move. Whether Joshua or Perry is the better hitting coach is irrelevant, something had to be done.

So make one that matters. Is Gerald Perry the problem, or is having too many guys like Aaron Miles the problem. What about David Patton. Typical Cubs move.

 

Getting rid of Miles and Patton isn't going to change the offense unless you're bringing in Utley to replace Miles. Of course, replacing Perry with Joshua may not improve the offense either, but we can hope it does.

[dew1679666265]

Here's a brief synopsis of Von Joshua's career, courtesy of the Sun-Times' Tony Ginnetti.

 

Joshua, 61, was in his fourth season as Iowa's hitting coach, the I-Cubs currently ranking sixth in the Pacific Coast League in hitting with a team average of .277, an on-base percentage of .342 and a .436 slugging percentage. Before Iowa, he was the organization's Class AA hitting coach. He has been a hitting coach since 1984 following his 10-year major league career, working in the Dodgers and Toronto Blue Jays organization.

 

He joined the White Sox organization in 1993 as a minor league coach and was promoted to major league hitting coach 1998, remaining until 2001.

[Larry Horse]

Perry must have been the one who vowed the Cubs must get more left-handed.

[Jehrico]

I'm optimistic Von Joshua can help the offense get back to where it should be. Soto, Fontenot, and Theriot never projected to be anything more than role players at best until they all worked with VJ for a while, and their careers took off. I'm hopeful he can get those three back on the track they were on last year.

 

I wonder if Perry didn't try to do too much with some of these guys this year. The story about trying to get Theriot to pull the ball a little more often comes to mind.

[UK1679666180]

Von Joshua is highly regarded as a hitting coach. I don't understand why firing Perry signals that the Cubs want to be more aggressive.

 

That's the biggest confusion for me - both Perry and Joshua (from what I understand) have similar philosophies, so is anything really going to be different from a teaching perspective?

 

Not that I dislike the patience approach or want it changed (I'm glad we're teaching it), I just don't see the likely positive coming from it.

 

What most hitting coaches teach are basically same absolutes as far as hitting, they'll make similar suggestion at the cage and analyze the same flaws, but how they differ is how they present it and whether or not that player will grasp what is being presented. There are likely two reasons for that: one reason is he understands more clearly thru that explanation compared to how it was previously taught, and the other is that he respects the hitting knowledge of this instructor and will take to heart what is being taught, instead of in one ear and out the other.

[UK1679666180]

The story about trying to get Theriot to pull the ball a little more often comes to mind.

 

Theriot was getting beat on the inside and Lou mentioned to Theriot about getting out in front and driving that ball. Of course when you do that, you now increase the chances of rolling over pitches on the outer 3rd.

[Bull]

BCB actually scooped the media. Don't see that very often.

 

I agree with others, that I don't really like this move. Gerald Perry is not the problem with the Cubs recent slump. Get rid of Miles, Freel etc. and get some players that can actually hit.

 

Thus ended the "Patient Cubbies Era". Signal the birth of "Neo-Dustianism" aka "being aggressive"

 

do you know what you are talking about? Von Joshua is very much about patience at the plate.

 

so you're saying nothing changes? .......great

 

I hold my original assessment. I don't care what Joshua teaches, he can't be nearly as effective at promoting patience as Perry has been his whole career. I'm not buying what your selling, and even if you're right, there's no improvement.

 

So you know absolutely nothing about Von Joshua, but just assume that he's going to come in and do a worse job? That's solid thinking. Von Joshua is a highly regarded hitting coach who has done wonderful things for some of our minor and major league hitters. I'm not saying I like the move, but you can't be so closed minded to think that a guy you know nothing about is automatically going to come in and do a worse job.

 

Perhaps I'm not articulating my point well.

 

I'm not talking about Joshua. I'm talking about Perry. Through his days with Oakland Perry has been Mr OBP, a veritable savior to many here.

 

Now he's cast away as garbage thanks to an offensive offense. But the futility is over a relatively short period of time compared to the 2 years of miracles performed. He transformed a free swinging bunch of hackers into a premier offense over the last two years. Have you forgotten this??

 

Von Joshua will do fine. Especially with guys like Theriot, convincing them to go the other way, use the whole field, and be aggressive in the zone. Much of what Perry was already doing.

 

Great. change for the sake of change. that always works out well. This symbolizes the end of the era of miracles.

[dew1679666265]

I'm optimistic Von Joshua can help the offense get back to where it should be. Soto, Fontenot, and Theriot never projected to be anything more than role players at best until they all worked with VJ for a while, and their careers took off. I'm hopeful he can get those three back on the track they were on last year.

 

I wonder if Perry didn't try to do too much with some of these guys this year. The story about trying to get Theriot to pull the ball a little more often comes to mind.

 

While what you say about him trying to get hitters to do too much may be true in some cases, Theriot pulling the ball more this year has made him a better hitter.

[dew1679666265]

Von Joshua is highly regarded as a hitting coach. I don't understand why firing Perry signals that the Cubs want to be more aggressive.

 

That's the biggest confusion for me - both Perry and Joshua (from what I understand) have similar philosophies, so is anything really going to be different from a teaching perspective?

 

Not that I dislike the patience approach or want it changed (I'm glad we're teaching it), I just don't see the likely positive coming from it.

 

What most hitting coaches teach are basically same absolutes as far as hitting, they'll make similar suggestion at the cage and analyze the same flaws, but how they differ is how they present it and whether or not that player will grasp what is being presented. There are likely two reasons for that: one reason is he understands more clearly thru that explanation compared to how it was previously taught, and the other is that he respects the hitting knowledge of this instructor and will take to heart what is being taught, instead of in one ear and out the other.

 

Interesting, thanks.

 

With that in mind, though, what do you think would be the reason that the players grasped what Perry taught last year and are not this year? Or do you think they were grasping it and it just wasn't translating to the field?

[NCCubFan]

 

I completely agree with this. Very disappointed because Joshua was such a good AAA hitting coach (ask guys like Theriot and Soto). I don't think Perry was that much of a problem.

 

 

Maybe he can help Geo figure himself out.

If today's any indication, maybe he's already started to figure himself out. Maybe getting yanked for a pinch hitter to bunt yesterday lit a fire under him.

[UK1679666180]

They were probably grasping it, certain guys are starting to get healthy (Lee/Soto), certain guys are streaky (Soriano), some are exposed (Fontenot), and some might need to learn to adjust b/c pitchers are pitching them differently (Fukudome and Soto). Soto is starting to go to RF more recently.

[dew1679666265]

They were probably grasping it, certain guys are starting to get healthy (Lee/Soto), certain guys are streaky (Soriano), some are exposed (Fontenot), and some might need to learn to adjust b/c pitchers are pitching them differently (Fukudome and Soto). Soto is starting to go to RF more recently.

 

That's pretty much how I feel - the offense would eventually turn it around without having to fire Perry and that he wasn't at fault at all in this.

 

I take it you dislike the firing of Perry?

[UK1679666180]

Something had to be done, if for whatever reason Perry wasn't getting thru to them, a move had to be made. Hopefully, Joshua can convey a sense of trust and a style of teaching that will work with these hitters.

 

Like most coaches at that level, the difference in intelligence about pitching/hitting from one coach to another is often overrated as Pentland knows likely knows as much about hitting as Perry. Meanwhile, the ability to present that knowledge is often underrated as far as why one coach is better than the other. Salesmanship is key, regardless if it is a coach or a manager.

[dew1679666265]

Something had to be done, if for whatever reason Perry wasn't getting thru to them, a move had to be made. Hopefully, Joshua can convey a sense of trust and a style of teaching that will work with these hitters.

 

Like most coaches at that level, the difference in intelligence about pitching/hitting from one coach to another is often overrated, Pentland knows likely knows as much about hitting as Perry. Meanwhile, the ability to present that knowledge is often underrated as far as why one coach is better than the other. Salesmanship is key, regardless if it is a coach or a manager.

 

It'll be interesting to see what, if any, good this move does. I'm skeptical of the positives in it, but at least there's no bad that will likely come of it.

[Sammys Boombox]

It seems to me that this is all about Hendry pointing the finger elsewhere for his offseason moves not panning out.

[imb]

Well, Hendry can't fire himself. And he's not going to fire Lou, and the pitchers have been great, so he's not going to [expletive] with Rothschild. No important players on our roster can be sent to the minors, so that rules that out, and there aren't a lot of potential trades to be made at the moment, so Hendry's hands were sort of tied.

[dew1679666265]

It seems to me that this is all about Hendry pointing the finger elsewhere for his offseason moves not panning out.

 

I don't think that's it at all. He's trying to spark a very talented team that, to this point, has underachieved dramatically. I don't agree with his method, but I understand the reason behind it.

 

His offseason moves didn't make the team this bad, it's still far more talented than the product we've seen on the field thus far.

[17 Seconds]

i cant believe people are actually still paying attention to that site

 

Oops.

 

LOL

 

yeah, on their 47th prediction in the last 2 years, one finally was right. now let's buy into 46 more bogus rumors before the 47th is right again

[17 Seconds]

BCB actually scooped the media. Don't see that very often.

 

I agree with others, that I don't really like this move. Gerald Perry is not the problem with the Cubs recent slump. Get rid of Miles, Freel etc. and get some players that can actually hit.

 

Thus ended the "Patient Cubbies Era". Signal the birth of "Neo-Dustianism" aka "being aggressive"

 

do you know what you are talking about? Von Joshua is very much about patience at the plate.

 

so you're saying nothing changes? .......great

 

I hold my original assessment. I don't care what Joshua teaches, he can't be nearly as effective at promoting patience as Perry has been his whole career. I'm not buying what your selling, and even if you're right, there's no improvement.

 

lol you're saying things just to say things. just admit you shouldn't have talked about something you know nothing about

[Sammys Boombox]

It seems to me that this is all about Hendry pointing the finger elsewhere for his offseason moves not panning out.

 

I don't think that's it at all. He's trying to spark a very talented team that, to this point, has underachieved dramatically. I don't agree with his method, but I understand the reason behind it.

 

His offseason moves didn't make the team this bad, it's still far more talented than the product we've seen on the field thus far.

 

Oh, I certainly agree that this team is playing a lot worse than they should be and that shouldn't be blamed on Hendry. However, in general his moves have not panned out to this point and firing Perry, the guy who ushered in the patient approaches, makes absolutely no sense to me. I just got from one of his quotes that he was pointing the finger.

[Bull]

BCB actually scooped the media. Don't see that very often.

 

I agree with others, that I don't really like this move. Gerald Perry is not the problem with the Cubs recent slump. Get rid of Miles, Freel etc. and get some players that can actually hit.

 

Thus ended the "Patient Cubbies Era". Signal the birth of "Neo-Dustianism" aka "being aggressive"

 

do you know what you are talking about? Von Joshua is very much about patience at the plate.

 

so you're saying nothing changes? .......great

 

I hold my original assessment. I don't care what Joshua teaches, he can't be nearly as effective at promoting patience as Perry has been his whole career. I'm not buying what your selling, and even if you're right, there's no improvement.

 

lol you're saying things just to say things. just admit you shouldn't have talked about something you know nothing about

 

Read a few of my posts and you'll see that most of what I say is for humor value. Where do you get off slamming me like that. Clearly I know the value of Gerald Perry and his track record. What's wrong with me questioning the move?

 

I'll hold onto the fact that Perry represents a shift in emphasis to OBP. the best Joshua can do is more of the same. The worst is to move away from that. And I know what I'm talking about. Everywhere Perry has gone he has taught patience and increased OBP. With Seattle, with Oakland, and with the Cubs. took them from very impatient teams to very patient teams.

 

the original statement was mostly humor, but the point behind it stands.

 

Hopefully Joshua continues to emphasize patience. Clearly Perry did.

[RynoRules]

 

Read a few of my posts and you'll see that most of what I say is for humor value. Where do you get off slamming me like that. Clearly I know the value of Gerald Perry and his track record. What's wrong with me questioning the move?

 

I'll hold onto the fact that Perry represents a shift in emphasis to OBP. the best Joshua can do is more of the same. The worst is to move away from that. And I know what I'm talking about. Everywhere Perry has gone he has taught patience and increased OBP. With Seattle, with Oakland, and with the Cubs. took them from very impatient teams to very patient teams.

 

the original statement was mostly humor, but the point behind it stands.

 

Hopefully Joshua continues to emphasize patience. Clearly Perry did.

 

No you don't, b/c while you may know something about Perry, you appear to know nothing about Joshua.

[Bull]

 

Read a few of my posts and you'll see that most of what I say is for humor value. Where do you get off slamming me like that. Clearly I know the value of Gerald Perry and his track record. What's wrong with me questioning the move?

 

I'll hold onto the fact that Perry represents a shift in emphasis to OBP. the best Joshua can do is more of the same. The worst is to move away from that. And I know what I'm talking about. Everywhere Perry has gone he has taught patience and increased OBP. With Seattle, with Oakland, and with the Cubs. took them from very impatient teams to very patient teams.

 

the original statement was mostly humor, but the point behind it stands.

 

Hopefully Joshua continues to emphasize patience. Clearly Perry did.

 

No you don't, b/c while you may know something about Perry, you appear to know nothing about Joshua.

 

again the whole neo-dustianism was not a jab at Joshua, mostly an attempt at humor which was clearly lost on you. Perry did symbolize a shift in organizational philosophy.

 

I said: The best he (Joshua) can do is more of the same (emphasizing patience and OBP)

 

lighten up

[Vanilla Ice]

Hitting coaches do more than "emphasize patience and OBP"

[Bull]

Hitting coaches do more than "emphasize patience and OBP"

 

clearly.

 

Holy Crap. I guy tries to crack a joke, throw Perry a bone, and remind folks what he meant to this team, and ends up at the wrong end of a noose with a growing mob around him.

 

Perry meant a change of philosophy in this organization. REVOLUTIONARY. That's the only thing I'm very serious about here. He rescued us from the evils of free-swinging, and to me will forever be a huge part of the championship teams of the last two years.