Corey Patterson: time to call it quits?

[Sammys Boombox]

I can personally vouch for Corey being a really nice guy -- at least on a fan level. I was at ST once, and he stood at a fence signing autograhps for an hour, in the Arizona heat. Other players were walking by urging him to leave, too.

 

I don't expect a player to always sign for everyone, they have work to do. CPatt didn't have to do that. I thought it was very nice of him.

 

He signed for me in STL. He also held a conversation with me while he signed for younger kids. I was 15 at the time. He didn't give off an arrogant feeling at all. I think this was shortly before the knee blowout.

[champaignchris]

Did he blow out his knee in 03?

 

Yeah, I think it was July '03. He'd just been chosen to be on the all-star team and then blew out the knee at 1B.

That year was the first year that the fans got to vote for the last player on each team after the rest of the All-Stars were announced. He had either won the voting or else was leading at the time (one detail I forget is whether he was injurde after the voting was over or while it was still in progress).

 

Patterson was injured on July 6, 2003. The Break began on July 14, 2003. How that timing works with the voting, I'm not sure.

 

Arguably, Patterson was the best position player for the Cubs during the first half of 2003, although Sosa went on quite a tear right before the All Star break. Patterson's injury spurred the trade that brought Lofton and Ramirez to the Cubs in one of the all-time great fleecings in team history. Ramirez and Lofton to the Cubs for Matt Bruback, Jose Hernandez, and Bobby Hill. 787 games, 177 home runs, 581 rbi later, I think we got the better of the deal. It's funny to think that back in 2003, a guy who would go on to become one of the majors' most consistent players and a plus defender at 3b, was thought of as erratic and a defensive liability.

 

Anyway, back to Patterson... He had a really good first half of 2003. Lofton had a really good second half of 2003. A lot of people thought that the Cubs should re-sign Lofton as a lead-off hitter, both because he was better at it than Patterson, and because Patterson might still be having some injury issues. The Cubs declined to offer Lofton. Patterson came back in 2004 and had a decent year, easily his best full year with the Cubs - 24 HR, 32 SB is what you're looking for out of your speedy CF.

 

The problem came of the Cubs' insistence that Patterson become a prototypical lead-off hitter. Something he wasn't particularly suited for from a plate discipline stand-point, and something he didn't seem particularly interested in. In 2005 they (mostly Dusty Baker) tried to completely change Patterson's approach at the plate and it was a disaster. Patterson traded to the Orioles for two minor leaguers that didn't amount to much, and Juan Pierre signed. That certainly worked out well, didn't it.

 

Funny thing is, Patterson wasn't horrible with the Orioles. It wasn't until he signed as a FA with Dusty's Reds that his career seemed to take its final nose dive.

[TheHawk]

I was at the Cards game where CPatt blew out his knee (Prior was on the mound.)

He was leading the fan voting for the All Star Game, but he was replaced on the ballot.

[flyseye]

Be that as it may, in spite of hccf's fuzzy memory with dates, ages, times, etc..... it's certainly not a stretch of the imagination to recall that some people here had unrealistically high expectations of Corey Patterson. The one truism in all of this..... is that hyperbole runs both ways around here, eh?

 

I don't think that is the case here at all. HCCF made a stupid comment, and that's the beginning and end of it.

 

People thought Corey could be really good if things worked out. There's no hyperbole involved, they thought he could be really good. And it was not at all unrealistic to think that way, given his obvious skills and his immediate transition to the pro game. People debated the merits of how quickly he was called up and how he was utilized once he was called up, and some people held onto the hopes for far longer than others. But there was nothing wrong with any of that. It's just ridiculous to come on here years after the fact and claim people on this site that "instantly lift a 17/18 year old kid up onto a pedestal and crown him the next Willie Mays before he even plays a game." It's an unnecessary and completely inaccurate criticism of fans who thought and hoped a highly touted prospect could come up and perform well.

 

 

Everytime a prospect fails people come out of the woodworks to make fun of or criticize those who had hopes for that prospect. Critique the paid professionals whose job it is to acquire and develop these prospects, but there's no good reason to heap scorn on fans who hoped the kid would succeed.

 

Gooney, are you asserting that nobody on this board ever expressed any higher expectations of Corey Patterson than....

 

A. "could be really good if things worked out"

B. "he could be really good"

C. "could come up and perform well"

 

.... because if that's your argument, then it's really you with the fuzzy memory, not hccf. That's about as disengenous an understatement of the facts as one can imagine. Do those sound like the expectations of a "highly touted prospect" !!! It's unfortunate that the posts from that period are all archived so we'll have to agree to disagree. I stand by my assertion that "some people here had unrealistically high expectations of Corey Patterson." While I don't believe anybody ever made the exact statement that hccf brought up (the next Willie Mays), I surely saw some posts back in the day that were every bit as outrageous as that one..... and yes, that is hyperbole.

 

I am impressed Fred. Good job.

 

To anyone who really remembers, the Patterson hype began way before this board was around. There was a group of posters from the old Cubs.com board, most of which migrated to this board when it started, who had some bizarre "Dynastic" "Nowacrat " theory. You could not say much of anything bad about the group of position players that included Patterson, Choi, Hill, Kelton, and a couple of others without a deluge of condescending posts from this group about how you were an uninformed nowacrat,or worse.

 

Of course the entire theory went right down the crapper when these players either did not pan out in the first place, or were "ruined" by Baylor . It really is too bad some of these posts can no longer be retrieved through this site, or cubs.com. Funny how most of these posters have either disappeared, or still get testy when anyone even begins to call them on it. Patterson is a nice guy ? Ha. Make fun of Theriot all you want, but don't you dare insult the very nice Patterson.

 

Don't know if HCCF was around in those days, but if he was, he is still down by a huge margin in the cheap shot department.

[javy knows my name]

IIRC, Patterson was on pace to demolish the single-season triples record before the injury as well.

[flyseye]

IIRC, Patterson was on pace to demolish the single-season triples record before the injury as well.

 

???

 

Patterson had 7 triples in 83 games before his injury. That projects to roughly 14 for a full season.The single season record is 36. Curtis Granderson had 23 in 2007.

[Jehrico]

A .391 OPS so far for Syracuse. $1600/mo. in MiLB.

 

Couldn't he make more money marketing himself as a former Cub and selling cars? It's very difficult to imagine any scenario that would allow him another major-league AB.

 

There were some big Corey fans here, but this guy is done.

 

Is he still dating Dusty Baker's daughter? If so he has a very easy way to get himself into more money.

 

According to baseball reference, He made about 14 mil between '02-'08, so unless hes an idiot, he should be set in that department.

If he wasn't an idiot, he'd be able to lay off the low off-speed pitch a foot outside the zone, and he'd be in the majors.

[SouthSideRyan]

A .391 OPS so far for Syracuse. $1600/mo. in MiLB.

 

Couldn't he make more money marketing himself as a former Cub and selling cars? It's very difficult to imagine any scenario that would allow him another major-league AB.

 

There were some big Corey fans here, but this guy is done.

 

Is he still dating Dusty Baker's daughter? If so he has a very easy way to get himself into more money.

 

According to baseball reference, He made about 14 mil between '02-'08, so unless hes an idiot, he should be set in that department.

If he wasn't an idiot, he'd be able to lay off the low off-speed pitch a foot outside the zone, and he'd be in the majors.

 

lol

[wolf stansson]

Has he got enough service time to get a pension?

I think you need 10 years of MLB service time to get pension.

and he's got 9?

He's smart to hang around for almost free just to try to get that additional service year and get the sweet pension package.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Friedn of mine said he saw C Patt playing at Syracuse or something. He looked absolutely lost at the plate.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Corey Patterson-OF-Nationals May. 29 - 3:43 am et

 

Corey Patterson homered twice off Casey Fossum for Triple-A Syracuse on Thursday.

 

Patterson is up to .299/.338/.507 in May after hitting just .159/.229/.182 in April. The Nationals should still be hoping that they don't have any need of him, but if he keeps hitting, some team will eventually give him another chance.

 

Could it be that hes finally pulling it together? Im pulling for you Corey.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

.338 OBP at AAA doesn't really translate well to the majors.

[SouthSideRyan]

.338 OBP at AAA doesn't really translate well to the majors.

 

Corey's never going to be a good OBP player. His value is from providing a power bat with good defense at a premium position. 320/450 is what you hope for if you take a shot on Patterson.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

.338 OBP at AAA doesn't really translate well to the majors.

 

Corey's never going to be a good OBP player. His value is from providing a power bat with good defense at a premium position. 320/450 is what you hope for if you take a shot on Patterson.

 

.338 in AAA doesn't project to .320, though. He's never been able to consistently get his OBP up to the bare respectability that would let his defensive and power add value, and I don't think .338 in AAA is projecting to him doing it.

[SouthSideRyan]

.338 OBP at AAA doesn't really translate well to the majors.

 

Corey's never going to be a good OBP player. His value is from providing a power bat with good defense at a premium position. 320/450 is what you hope for if you take a shot on Patterson.

 

.338 in AAA doesn't project to .320, though. He's never been able to consistently get his OBP up to the bare respectability that would let his defensive and power add value, and I don't think .338 in AAA is projecting to him doing it.

 

I said 320 is what you hope for. You should expect something like 300/400 which isn't bad for a 5th OF.

[chuckywang]

How does a player go from being a top prospect to the bottom of the barrel when he is still in his prime? It makes no sense. You don't just "lose" talent like that.

[NonProfitCow]

How does a player go from being a top prospect to the bottom of the barrel when he is still in his prime? It makes no sense. You don't just "lose" talent like that.

The one talent he didn't have was exploited at the major league level. Pitch recognition.

[17 Seconds]

his 04 and 06 seasons were pretty decent when you consider his position, defense, and the fact that he stole bases at a pretty good rate... especially in 06

[17 Seconds]

does anybody remember how like sometime around midseason in 04 patterson went on a hot streak and there was some special segment on BBTN about how patterson had sparked the cubs and was carrying them.... and that he was turning into a superstar? whoops

[dew1679666265]

does anybody remember how like sometime around midseason in 04 patterson went on a hot streak and there was some special segment on BBTN about how patterson had sparked the cubs and was carrying them.... and that he was turning into a superstar? whoops

 

He was very good in 03 before the injury.

[UMFan83]

does anybody remember how like sometime around midseason in 04 patterson went on a hot streak and there was some special segment on BBTN about how patterson had sparked the cubs and was carrying them.... and that he was turning into a superstar? whoops

 

He was very good in 03 before the injury.

 

He had one hot month and was already coming back down to earth when he got hurt.

 

He had a .216/.278/.284/.562 line in the 24 games before he got hurt, while having a .328/.348/.593/.941 before that 24 game stretch dropping his OPS from .941 to .839.

[mcgoobs]

Has he got enough service time to get a pension?

I think you need 10 years of MLB service time to get pension.

and he's got 9?

He's smart to hang around for almost free just to try to get that additional service year and get the sweet pension package.

 

He's also smart enough to begin dating the manager's daughter to get on his good side.

[dew1679666265]

does anybody remember how like sometime around midseason in 04 patterson went on a hot streak and there was some special segment on BBTN about how patterson had sparked the cubs and was carrying them.... and that he was turning into a superstar? whoops

 

He was very good in 03 before the injury.

 

He had one hot month and was already coming back down to earth when he got hurt.

 

He had a .216/.278/.284/.562 line in the 24 games before he got hurt, while having a .328/.348/.593/.941 before that 24 game stretch dropping his OPS from .941 to .839.

 

I had forgotten about the dropoff he was going through. I wonder, had he not gotten hurt, if it was him returning to mediocrity or if he was just slumping?

[CyHawk_Cub]

does anybody remember how like sometime around midseason in 04 patterson went on a hot streak and there was some special segment on BBTN about how patterson had sparked the cubs and was carrying them.... and that he was turning into a superstar? whoops

 

He was very good in 03 before the injury.

 

He had one hot month and was already coming back down to earth when he got hurt.

 

He had a .216/.278/.284/.562 line in the 24 games before he got hurt, while having a .328/.348/.593/.941 before that 24 game stretch dropping his OPS from .941 to .839.

 

I had forgotten about the dropoff he was going through. I wonder, had he not gotten hurt, if it was him returning to mediocrity or if he was just slumping?

 

Given what he's done since then, I'd feel safe in the assumption it wasn't merely a slump

[dew1679666265]

Given what he's done since then, I'd feel safe in the assumption it wasn't merely a slump

 

Yeah, that's what I suspect as well, but there's still a part of me that wishes he had gotten the full season just to see "what if."