Cubs/Cardinals Postgame 4/16/09

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Just like I don't think you should worry in a gamethread until they are actually losing, there's really not much point in worrying about a 5-4 team.

[SouthSideRyan]

Just like I don't think you should worry in a gamethread until they are actually losing, there's really not much point in worrying about a 5-4 team.

 

I wouldn't be that worried if they were 2-7.

[Machina]

I am sure someone will be available at the deadline, but who can we get for bullpen help.

 

I would love if we had it like the Astros a few years ago, two legit set up men and then a closer. Gregg for the 7th Marmol or who we get in a trade for the 8th and 9th (whatever order is best) Maybe a package for Sherrill and Roberts with Baltimore?

[imb]

I will start to worry if we still look this lacksidasical after 30-40 games.

 

you won't last that long

 

Is that a challenge?

 

you know you're already losing it. you won't make it past the weekend.

[UMFan83]

-Anyone who was worried about regressions from Soto, Fontenot and/or Bradley has had nothing to squash those thoughts. Fontenot especially is worrysome. If pitchers have figured out a way to get him out, and he can't make the adjustment, we have a major hole in 2B. Fontenot is useless if he's not hitting because he's not a good defender. We'd have to go shopping for a 2B at the deadline, and Hendry would have to take a pie in his face for gambling on the DeRosa trade.

 

Fontenot has 39 PA's and has a .775 OPS with a .385 OBP(numbers rounded cause I closed the calculator window)

 

Bradley has had 25 PA's.

 

Soto has had 15 PA'S.

 

We haven't even played 10 games yet.

 

I agree. What I said was, people that came into the season worried about regressions for those players haven't seen anything so far to calm their fears. My whole post was based on a premise that its way too early to worry, but these are trends I'm seeing. If the Cubs played these 10 games in July, no one would make a big deal out of any of this.

[17 Seconds]

So far all of Hendry's offseason signings/trades have been trash. Gregg, Heilman, Miles, Bradley, Dempster...

 

Dempster and Heilman have been trash?

 

Trash is be a strong word for those 2, but they have not been very good. Yeah today was the first time Heilman was actually charged with a run, vut he has a 1.42 WHIP and has walked as many as he has struck out. His main problem last year was walks, and that has continued so far. I had (asnd still have) hopes for him returning to his 05-07 form, but so far we're getting the 2008 Heilman.

 

As for Dempster, yeah... he has a 1.50 WHIP and a 4.50 ERA (and only because of Reed). So far he has been exactly what I was afraid of. He's had terrible control. The main difference with him last year was he suddenly had better control. I was skeptical of howl ong that could last when he's had such bad control for his while career.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I am sure someone will be available at the deadline, but who can we get for bullpen help.

 

I would love if we had it like the Astros a few years ago, two legit set up men and then a closer. Gregg for the 7th Marmol or who we get in a trade for the 8th and 9th (whatever order is best) Maybe a package for Sherrill and Roberts with Baltimore?

 

 

I've been dying for a really good lefty reliever in this bullpen for two years now, but as constructed, it'll be adequate. Probably even good.

[UMFan83]

I will start to worry if we still look this lacksidasical after 30-40 games.

 

you won't last that long

 

Is that a challenge?

 

you know you're already losing it. you won't make it past the weekend.

 

I've been really good actually. I feel like I have a zen like calm this year. My friends have all been pleasantly surprised. I will surprise you too IMB!

[17 Seconds]

I am sure someone will be available at the deadline, but who can we get for bullpen help.

 

I would love if we had it like the Astros a few years ago, two legit set up men and then a closer. Gregg for the 7th Marmol or who we get in a trade for the 8th and 9th (whatever order is best) Maybe a package for Sherrill and Roberts with Baltimore?

 

roberts just signed an extension and sherrill is awful

[SouthSideRyan]

-Anyone who was worried about regressions from Soto, Fontenot and/or Bradley has had nothing to squash those thoughts. Fontenot especially is worrysome. If pitchers have figured out a way to get him out, and he can't make the adjustment, we have a major hole in 2B. Fontenot is useless if he's not hitting because he's not a good defender. We'd have to go shopping for a 2B at the deadline, and Hendry would have to take a pie in his face for gambling on the DeRosa trade.

 

Fontenot has 39 PA's and has a .775 OPS with a .385 OBP(numbers rounded cause I closed the calculator window)

 

Bradley has had 25 PA's.

 

Soto has had 15 PA'S.

 

We haven't even played 10 games yet.

 

I agree. What I said was, people that came into the season worried about regressions for those players haven't seen anything so far to calm their fears. My whole post was based on a premise that its way too early to worry, but these are trends I'm seeing. If the Cubs played these 10 games in July, no one would make a big deal out of any of this.

 

There's no such thing as a trend over 15 PAs sandwiched around shoulder soreness.

[CubColtPacer]

Please read the game commentary here that addresses both the running into outs and the bullpen situation:

 

http://www.northsidebaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1366:questionable-choices-questionable-calls-send-cubs-to-defeat&catid=50:kyle-clark&Itemid=117

[UMFan83]

I am sure someone will be available at the deadline, but who can we get for bullpen help.

 

I would love if we had it like the Astros a few years ago, two legit set up men and then a closer. Gregg for the 7th Marmol or who we get in a trade for the 8th and 9th (whatever order is best) Maybe a package for Sherrill and Roberts with Baltimore?

 

Roberts just signed an extension with the O's...he's not going anywhere.

 

Edit: Whoops, beaten

[Warren Brusstar]

The Cubs bullpen now has an ERA of 3.92, a WHIP of 1.39, a K/9 of 9.75, and a BB/9 of 4.75. They're walking way too many people is the main problem, but those numbers don't paint a picture of disaster. They're even more influenced since we've played only 9 games and have had our starters throw a combined 8 innings the last 2 days meaning more work for the worst of the pen.

Take out Marmol and what is the ERA? 7.00?

 

marmol's not on the team anymore?????

 

How many innings do you think Marmol is going to throw?

[cubsfan26]

The Cubs bullpen now has an ERA of 3.92, a WHIP of 1.39, a K/9 of 9.75, and a BB/9 of 4.75. They're walking way too many people is the main problem, but those numbers don't paint a picture of disaster. They're even more influenced since we've played only 9 games and have had our starters throw a combined 8 innings the last 2 days meaning more work for the worst of the pen.

 

Very good post

 

It doesn't feel like we have a 3.92 ERA as a team. It seems like a reliever not named Marmol gives up a run every game they pitch in

 

Thats because you have a short memory, and only remember when the pen has pitched bad. In the Astros series the bullpen pitched well overall. Sure Friday and Saturday against the Brewers, they had some issues. But Sunday it was fine for the most part, Monday it was good, and yesterday it was pretty good. Yes today it sucked but were talking about like 3 games and today was the first day it really gave up alot of runs. Also keep in mind if the offense was hitting better we wouldn't need the pen to be lights out so often.

 

As for Dempster, yeah... he has a 1.50 WHIP and a 4.50 ERA (and only because of Reed). So far he has been exactly what I was afraid of. He's had terrible control. The main difference with him last year was he suddenly had better control. I was skeptical of howl ong that could last when he's had such bad control for his while career.

 

Well the 4.50 era also is due to a small sample size. Pitching 6 innings both games and allowing 2 runs and 4 runs in a game isn't exactly getting bombed. But the WHIP hasn't been higher due to Dempster walking more people. It's been because he's been giving up more hits then last year in his first two starts. Six total walks over 2 starts(12 innings) wasn't uncommon for Dempster last season. The difference is giving up 6 hits in both starts. Last year he didn't give up 6 hits or more in a game until his 9th start. Sure after that he allowed 6 hits or more in a game in six of his next nine starts. But early in the season teams are hitting Dempster more then they did last year. But honestly it's way too early to tell if the trend will continue. So I wouldn't really make a judgement or have a concern at this point. If any the end of April his WHIP is high, or his era is high then we can talk about Dempster not being as good.

Edited April 16, 2009 by cubsfan26

[anabiono]

The Cubs bullpen now has an ERA of 3.92, a WHIP of 1.39, a K/9 of 9.75, and a BB/9 of 4.75. They're walking way too many people is the main problem, but those numbers don't paint a picture of disaster. They're even more influenced since we've played only 9 games and have had our starters throw a combined 8 innings the last 2 days meaning more work for the worst of the pen.

Take out Marmol and what is the ERA? 7.00?

 

marmol's not on the team anymore?????

 

How many innings do you think Marmol is going to throw?

 

2007 - 69.1

2008 - 87.1

 

i am guessing it will be somewhere in the middle of those two...since lou appears to want to use him more sparingly this season

 

probably about 72 to 74

[Machina]

I am sure someone will be available at the deadline, but who can we get for bullpen help.

 

I would love if we had it like the Astros a few years ago, two legit set up men and then a closer. Gregg for the 7th Marmol or who we get in a trade for the 8th and 9th (whatever order is best) Maybe a package for Sherrill and Roberts with Baltimore?

 

Roberts just signed an extension with the O's...he's not going anywhere.

 

Edit: Whoops, beaten

 

Just trying to generate some ideas so we could discuss. I forgot that Roberts signed the extension. I just remember him being rumored to Chicago for a few years.

 

I don't know if we can give up on DLee and we have a lot of outfields, so I was suggesting Roberts because I think 2B and Relief Pitcher are we need to most help. But I agree with what a lot of people have said thus far, that its too early to start panicing. Cubs have played less than 10 games so far, lots and lots of baseball left.

[manbearcub]

gregg isnt going to have a 9 era this season.

 

 

im not worried.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The only thing we might need is a solid backup middle infielder/platoon 2 bagger, and Ronnie Belliard would fit the bill perfectly. I highly doubt that the Nats would ask for too much in return.

 

Other than that, were set. If a starter goes down, or Peavy ends up being waved in ur face again, then it would be hard to say no to that, otherwise, I have no problem with our rotation.

 

If we could get a better loogy, that would be super too. Again, The Nats could have the answer in Joe Beimal. I dont know why Hendry didnt think about him to begin with when he was avalable at a bargain basement price.

[anabiono]

The only thing we might need is a solid backup middle infielder/platoon 2 bagger, and Ronnie Belliard would fit the bill perfectly. I highly doubt that the Nats would ask for too much in return.

 

Other than that, were set. If a starter goes down, or Peavy ends up being waved in ur face again, then it would be hard to say no to that, otherwise, I have no problem with our rotation.

 

If we could get a better loogy, that would be super too. Again, The Nats could have the answer in Joe Beimal. I dont know why Hendry didnt think about him to begin with when he was avalable at a bargain basement price.

 

it was free donut day at dunkin

[17 Seconds]

 

Well the 4.50 era also is due to a small sample size. Pitching 6 innings both games and allowing 2 runs and 4 runs in a game isn't exactly getting bombed. But the WHIP hasn't been higher due to Dempster walking more people. It's been because he's been giving up more hits then last year in his first two starts. Six total walks over 2 starts(12 innings) wasn't uncommon for Dempster last season. The difference is giving up 6 hits in both starts. Last year he didn't give up 6 hits or more in a game until his 9th start. Sure after that he allowed 6 hits or more in a game in six of his next nine starts. But early in the season teams are hitting Dempster more then they did last year. But honestly it's way too early to tell if the trend will continue. So I wouldn't really make a judgement or have a concern at this point. If any the end of April his WHIP is high, or his era is high then we can talk about Dempster not being as good.

 

you're right, the era is a product of small sample size...except it should be bigger, not smaller. he has a 1.50 WHIP. he has not been good. and no, his whip isn't higher because of hits. it's higher because of hits and walks.

 

like i said, the main reason dempster was suddenly good last season was because his control was much better than it had been the rest of his career. i was skeptical that he could carry that into another season after a contract year. so far he has had terrible control in both of his first 2 starts. he's not going to be a good pitcher with control like that. he's on pace for like 100+ walks so far.

 

i'm not saying i'm giving up on him or that he sucks or anything like that yet, i was just pointing out that so far, he hasn't been good. hopefully he turns it around.

[17 Seconds]

The only thing we might need is a solid backup middle infielder/platoon 2 bagger, and Ronnie Belliard would fit the bill perfectly. I highly doubt that the Nats would ask for too much in return.

 

Other than that, were set. If a starter goes down, or Peavy ends up being waved in ur face again, then it would be hard to say no to that, otherwise, I have no problem with our rotation.

 

If we could get a better loogy, that would be super too. Again, The Nats could have the answer in Joe Beimal. I dont know why Hendry didnt think about him to begin with when he was avalable at a bargain basement price.

 

beimel isn't a loogy

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I still think the bogus calls on Bradley were the turning point. If the ump had half a clue, we would have gotten a minimum of two more runs that inning and possibly more.

[cubsfan26]

he has a 1.50 WHIP. he has not been good. and no, his whip isn't higher because of hits. it's higher because of hits and walks.

 

Yes his WHIP is higher because of hits and walks, thats how you figure out WHIP. But his walk totals aren't really that much different then last April. He walked 3 guys or more(5 guys twice) in three of his six starts and at least two guys in every start in April. But in those starts he only gave up 1,3,4,4,5,5 hits in those games So whats the difference in Dempster performance so far? The walks or the hits allowed? I don't understand why you try to argue something when the facts are right there? Also the 2 runs in 6 innings and 4 runs in 6 inning performances were very simliar to Dempster 1st and 3rd start of last year. So if Dempster has a good start against the Cardinals Saturday he could be right were he was at this point last year. Thats why it's way too early to even bring up Dempster performance as a negative and thats why nobody else but you is.

Edited April 17, 2009 by cubsfan26

[SouthSideRyan]

The Cubs bullpen now has an ERA of 3.92, a WHIP of 1.39, a K/9 of 9.75, and a BB/9 of 4.75. They're walking way too many people is the main problem, but those numbers don't paint a picture of disaster. They're even more influenced since we've played only 9 games and have had our starters throw a combined 8 innings the last 2 days meaning more work for the worst of the pen.

Take out Marmol and what is the ERA? 7.00?

 

marmol's not on the team anymore?????

 

How many innings do you think Marmol is going to throw?

 

Missing the point entirely. Can anybody tell me how many HRs we have when you take away Soriano? I mean, it's not like the guy is going to get half the ABs this year.

[Bote McBoteface]

I love these threads <3