Re: Any current Cubs with a shot at having their number retired?

[Soul]

The current list:

 

Santo 10

Sandberg 23

Banks 14

Williams 26

Robinson 42 (retired league-wide)

 

Woody doesn't fit on that list. Maddux didn't either. Gracie, I could see except that the feeling between the Cubs and Grace is very cold and probably won't warm up. Gracie's a bit of a tweener too. A good Cub, but not really a league-wide great.

 

I could see in 10 years, Sosa -- provided he is never proven to have used steroids, makes the hall of fame, and the relationship with the organization is repaired. It could happen.

 

Current Cubs? Zambrano, as was mentioned. If Rammy puts in another 5, 6 solid years? Perhaps. I don't see any others. Certainly not Lee. Soriano, if he puts in a solid 7, 8 years with the organization and they win the World Series??? It's a stretch......maybe.

[rawaction]

win a world series and the whole team will get their jerseys retired.

[erik316wttn]

The Cubs are really, really stingy with the number thing.

 

Zambrano is the only one on the current Cubs I could see getting there.

 

They're stingy because they've been terrible for the better part of the last 60 years. Who's # do you think should have been retired? (post WWII guys only, they're not going to retire the # for a guy who's can't be there to watch it.)

 

Who are the biggest snubs right now? Hartnett, Cavaretta, Hack, Grace, and Reuschel?

 

Other than Hartnett(who never kept up a # for more than 4 years, and didn't have one for half his career) who's being snubbed? Stan Hack was a great Cub and probably a top 20 3B of all time, but I wouldn't say it's a crime that his number isn't retired. Cavaretta is much the same story. Both put up their best numbers during WWII as well, which kinda puts a damper on things. Grace? Pass. Reuschel doesn't really have an argument, but I felt the need to put some pitcher on the list.

 

These guys are all fine to put their banner up on the councourse, recognize them as great Cubs, but they're not retired # good.

 

You forgot Sammy. His number should be retired before any of those others you mentioned.

[Machina]

One thing that I love about the Cubs is that there are only four retired numbers. I know there would be more from back in the day, but still, its not easy. You have to be a GREAT player and a real ambassador for the team and the City of Chicago.

 

That said, I do not think anyone is on track for that to happen, not even Big Z. He has been a good, pitch who has been great at times, but too inconsistent and doesn't have the presense on the team and in the city that Santo, Banks, and Ryno did. The only player I can see right here right now with any potential of getting their number retired would be Soto. And he would have to remain a Cub for many years and put up better numbers in most of those years, and at worst similar numbers to last season in the other years, in order for that to happen.

[SouthSideRyan]

It's obviously a long time away, but I don't see how you can say Z isn't "on track" to get his # retired. He'd have to pitch his entire career with the Cubs, and keep up the same level of performance, but if those 2 giant ifs came to pass he'd be a hall of famer and an easy # retiring.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's obviously a long time away, but I don't see how you can say Z isn't "on track" to get his # retired. He'd have to pitch his entire career with the Cubs, and keep up the same level of performance, but if those 2 giant ifs came to pass he'd be a hall of famer and an easy # retiring.

 

Yeah, but he's got a reputation in the media and amongst many of the fans that isn't all that conducive to him going down as a beloved character. If he's the best pitcher on an eventual world series champion, or maybe just an NL champ, it would really help.

[SouthSideRyan]

It's obviously a long time away, but I don't see how you can say Z isn't "on track" to get his # retired. He'd have to pitch his entire career with the Cubs, and keep up the same level of performance, but if those 2 giant ifs came to pass he'd be a hall of famer and an easy # retiring.

 

Yeah, but he's got a reputation in the media and amongst many of the fans that isn't all that conducive to him going down as a beloved character. If he's the best pitcher on an eventual world series champion, or maybe just an NL champ, it would really help.

 

If Z retires a Cub, he'll go down as beloved. If he winds up elsewhere, he'll be thrown under the bus by all the usual idiots.

[mhuber92211]

I hold a different view then just Stats and a great player = retired number. This is why i fell Grace deserves it. Its the same argument that often happens here, Numbers vs. What you see and Feel (Emotions) but if a player is truly someone who trancends the game and represents Chicago Cubs baseball fro a decade then they should be honored by that team. Grace more then any other Cub was the 1 player associated with the Cubs for the 90's and most fans would remember him from the 90's before anyone else.

[SouthSideRyan]

I hold a different view then just Stats and a great player = retired number. This is why i fell Grace deserves it. Its the same argument that often happens here, Numbers vs. What you see and Feel (Emotions) but if a player is truly someone who trancends the game and represents Chicago Cubs baseball fro a decade then they should be honored by that team. Grace more then any other Cub was the 1 player associated with the Cubs for the 90's and most fans would remember him from the 90's before anyone else.

 

Grace was 3rd-4th in line until Dawson/Maddux left. Then he was behind Sandberg til he retired. Then he had maybe 2 years of being the most popular Cub before Sosa took over. Mark Grace does not represent the Cubs in any way.

[Old Style]

The current list:

 

Santo 10

Sandberg 23

Banks 14

Williams 26

Robinson 42 (retired league-wide)

 

Woody doesn't fit on that list. Maddux didn't either. Gracie, I could see except that the feeling between the Cubs and Grace is very cold and probably won't warm up. Gracie's a bit of a tweener too. A good Cub, but not really a league-wide great.

Wait. Are you saying that Maddux doesn't deserve to have his number retired but you could see an argument being made for Grace?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I hold a different view then just Stats and a great player = retired number. This is why i fell Grace deserves it. Its the same argument that often happens here, Numbers vs. What you see and Feel (Emotions) but if a player is truly someone who trancends the game and represents Chicago Cubs baseball fro a decade then they should be honored by that team. Grace more then any other Cub was the 1 player associated with the Cubs for the 90's and most fans would remember him from the 90's before anyone else.

 

Grace was 3rd-4th in line until Dawson/Maddux left. Then he was behind Sandberg til he retired. Then he had maybe 2 years of being the most popular Cub before Sosa took over. Mark Grace does not represent the Cubs in any way.

 

I have to agree with SSR. Grace was always second fiddle. At first, he trailed Dawson and Sandberg in poularity, and later Sosa.

 

Grace was a very good player. He's a lot of fans' favorite player, but I don't think he equals jersey retirement. Had he been a HOFer, then yes. He's not HOF quality, and the only Cub who will have his jersey retired that isn't in the Hall is Santo, and we will all agree he is a special case.

 

The next number the Cubs should retire is Sosa. I have no problem with them waiting on that one a bit, but it should be the next in line.

 

After #21, I can't see any on the horizon. Zambrano or Soto may have a case, but much more needs to be done before that happens.

 

But Grace? No. I'd think Sutcliffe would have as strong a case as Grace for having his number retired, and there's no way I think Sut should be considered.

[jersey cubs fan]

I hold a different view then just Stats and a great player = retired number. This is why i fell Grace deserves it. Its the same argument that often happens here, Numbers vs. What you see and Feel (Emotions) but if a player is truly someone who trancends the game and represents Chicago Cubs baseball fro a decade then they should be honored by that team. Grace more then any other Cub was the 1 player associated with the Cubs for the 90's and most fans would remember him from the 90's before anyone else.

 

Grace was 3rd-4th in line until Dawson/Maddux left. Then he was behind Sandberg til he retired. Then he had maybe 2 years of being the most popular Cub before Sosa took over. Mark Grace does not represent the Cubs in any way.

 

Exactly. Grace was only a top Cub because the Cubs sucked. The 90's Cubs were horrible. The fact that Grace sticks out the most from that time doesn't make him worthy of honor. It was a sad miserable time to be a Cubs fan, in part because their best player was nothing special.

[Cubswin11]

I hold a different view then just Stats and a great player = retired number. This is why i fell Grace deserves it. Its the same argument that often happens here, Numbers vs. What you see and Feel (Emotions) but if a player is truly someone who trancends the game and represents Chicago Cubs baseball fro a decade then they should be honored by that team. Grace more then any other Cub was the 1 player associated with the Cubs for the 90's and most fans would remember him from the 90's before anyone else.

 

Grace was 3rd-4th in line until Dawson/Maddux left. Then he was behind Sandberg til he retired. Then he had maybe 2 years of being the most popular Cub before Sosa took over. Mark Grace does not represent the Cubs in any way.

 

Exactly. Grace was only a top Cub because the Cubs sucked. The 90's Cubs were horrible. The fact that Grace sticks out the most from that time doesn't make him worthy of honor. It was a sad miserable time to be a Cubs fan, in part because their best player was nothing special.

Yeah the Cubs were bad in the 90's, but Grace did lead the 90's in hits. I don't think he should have his number retired, but I think there is a argument to be made that it should.

 

Also Marmol could have a chance assuming he becomes the fulltime closer within the next year and he stays with the Cubs for all if not most of his career. Marmol could be the closer for the next 10ish years and he could rack up a pretty good amount of saves (overrated stat but valued in mainstream baseball) and post some good WHIP, K, and ERA numbers as well.

[Machina]

I hold a different view then just Stats and a great player = retired number. This is why i fell Grace deserves it. Its the same argument that often happens here, Numbers vs. What you see and Feel (Emotions) but if a player is truly someone who trancends the game and represents Chicago Cubs baseball fro a decade then they should be honored by that team. Grace more then any other Cub was the 1 player associated with the Cubs for the 90's and most fans would remember him from the 90's before anyone else.

 

Grace was 3rd-4th in line until Dawson/Maddux left. Then he was behind Sandberg til he retired. Then he had maybe 2 years of being the most popular Cub before Sosa took over. Mark Grace does not represent the Cubs in any way.

 

Exactly. Grace was only a top Cub because the Cubs sucked. The 90's Cubs were horrible. The fact that Grace sticks out the most from that time doesn't make him worthy of honor. It was a sad miserable time to be a Cubs fan, in part because their best player was nothing special.

Yeah the Cubs were bad in the 90's, but Grace did lead the 90's in hits. I don't think he should have his number retired, but I think there is a argument to be made that it should.

 

Also Marmol could have a chance assuming he becomes the fulltime closer within the next year and he stays with the Cubs for all if not most of his career. Marmol could be the closer for the next 10ish years and he could rack up a pretty good amount of saves (overrated stat but valued in mainstream baseball) and post some good WHIP, K, and ERA numbers as well.

 

I agree with what you are saying about Marmol. But my question is, how many numbers aroudn baseball are retired for relief pitchers who spent their entire careers as relief pitchers? Does Lee Smith have his number retired? Hoffman will in San Diego, but other than that, no one is coming to mind right now that spent their entire career in the pen.

[fromthestretch]

But my question is, how many numbers aroudn baseball are retired for relief pitchers who spent their entire careers as relief pitchers? Does Lee Smith have his number retired? Hoffman will in San Diego, but other than that, no one is coming to mind right now that spent their entire career in the pen.

 

I would imagine that Mariano Rivera's number will eventually be retired, as well.

[jersey cubs fan]

I hold a different view then just Stats and a great player = retired number. This is why i fell Grace deserves it. Its the same argument that often happens here, Numbers vs. What you see and Feel (Emotions) but if a player is truly someone who trancends the game and represents Chicago Cubs baseball fro a decade then they should be honored by that team. Grace more then any other Cub was the 1 player associated with the Cubs for the 90's and most fans would remember him from the 90's before anyone else.

 

Grace was 3rd-4th in line until Dawson/Maddux left. Then he was behind Sandberg til he retired. Then he had maybe 2 years of being the most popular Cub before Sosa took over. Mark Grace does not represent the Cubs in any way.

 

Exactly. Grace was only a top Cub because the Cubs sucked. The 90's Cubs were horrible. The fact that Grace sticks out the most from that time doesn't make him worthy of honor. It was a sad miserable time to be a Cubs fan, in part because their best player was nothing special.

Yeah the Cubs were bad in the 90's, but Grace did lead the 90's in hits. I don't think he should have his number retired, but I think there is a argument to be made that it should.

 

Also Marmol could have a chance assuming he becomes the fulltime closer within the next year and he stays with the Cubs for all if not most of his career. Marmol could be the closer for the next 10ish years and he could rack up a pretty good amount of saves (overrated stat but valued in mainstream baseball) and post some good WHIP, K, and ERA numbers as well.

 

I agree with what you are saying about Marmol. But my question is, how many numbers aroudn baseball are retired for relief pitchers who spent their entire careers as relief pitchers? Does Lee Smith have his number retired? Hoffman will in San Diego, but other than that, no one is coming to mind right now that spent their entire career in the pen.

 

Mariano Rivera definitely will.

[fromthestretch]

But my question is, how many numbers aroudn baseball are retired for relief pitchers who spent their entire careers as relief pitchers? Does Lee Smith have his number retired? Hoffman will in San Diego, but other than that, no one is coming to mind right now that spent their entire career in the pen.

 

I would imagine that Mariano Rivera's number will eventually be retired, as well.

 

I also believe the A's retired Rollie Fingers' number.

[SouthSideRyan]

The closer is a relatively recent invention. Most career closers haven't been retired that long. Additionally, (anecdotally) closers seem to not be 1 team guys(probably a product of nearly all closers being in the free agency era. You're not going to retire a guy's number who played with you for 7 seasons unless you're the White Sox and Harold Baines(The first of 28 times they retired it that is)

 

And Mark Grace leading the 90s in hits might be my most hated stat ever.

[Cubswin11]

I hold a different view then just Stats and a great player = retired number. This is why i fell Grace deserves it. Its the same argument that often happens here, Numbers vs. What you see and Feel (Emotions) but if a player is truly someone who trancends the game and represents Chicago Cubs baseball fro a decade then they should be honored by that team. Grace more then any other Cub was the 1 player associated with the Cubs for the 90's and most fans would remember him from the 90's before anyone else.

 

Grace was 3rd-4th in line until Dawson/Maddux left. Then he was behind Sandberg til he retired. Then he had maybe 2 years of being the most popular Cub before Sosa took over. Mark Grace does not represent the Cubs in any way.

 

Exactly. Grace was only a top Cub because the Cubs sucked. The 90's Cubs were horrible. The fact that Grace sticks out the most from that time doesn't make him worthy of honor. It was a sad miserable time to be a Cubs fan, in part because their best player was nothing special.

Yeah the Cubs were bad in the 90's, but Grace did lead the 90's in hits. I don't think he should have his number retired, but I think there is a argument to be made that it should.

 

Also Marmol could have a chance assuming he becomes the fulltime closer within the next year and he stays with the Cubs for all if not most of his career. Marmol could be the closer for the next 10ish years and he could rack up a pretty good amount of saves (overrated stat but valued in mainstream baseball) and post some good WHIP, K, and ERA numbers as well.

 

I agree with what you are saying about Marmol. But my question is, how many numbers aroudn baseball are retired for relief pitchers who spent their entire careers as relief pitchers? Does Lee Smith have his number retired? Hoffman will in San Diego, but other than that, no one is coming to mind right now that spent their entire career in the pen.

There aren't many, but the save/relief pitcher is a relatively new stat/role and the guys that really started and finished their careers as just closers are now just starting to retire/finish off their careers. Hoffman and Rivera will both get their numbers retired and with the Save/Closer role now adopted full time by every team I have to think the number of closers and relief pitchers getting their numbers retired and entering the HOF will increase pretty dramatically in the years to come.

[SpongeWorthy]

It's obviously a long time away, but I don't see how you can say Z isn't "on track" to get his # retired. He'd have to pitch his entire career with the Cubs, and keep up the same level of performance, but if those 2 giant ifs came to pass he'd be a hall of famer and an easy # retiring.

 

Yeah, but he's got a reputation in the media and amongst many of the fans that isn't all that conducive to him going down as a beloved character. If he's the best pitcher on an eventual world series champion, or maybe just an NL champ, it would really help.

 

As long as he produces I think Z's emotional nature endears him to Cubs fans more than it diminishes his standing.

 

Anecdotally, my mom who knows nothing about baseball and isn't a native speaker thinks it's "cute" when Z stomps around the mound and mutters to himself.

 

And yeah, if Sosa continues to exist where only circumstantial evidence links him to steroids he'll have his number retired--and he should.

[Andy]

MLB already retired Mariano Rivera's number for every team, I'm not sure why we keep bringing him up.

[Old Style]

MLB already retired Mariano Rivera's number for every team, I'm not sure why we keep bringing him up.

This. He wears #42, people. Ever heard of Jackie Robinson?

[jersey cubs fan]

MLB already retired Mariano Rivera's number for every team, I'm not sure why we keep bringing him up.

 

Because the Yankees will specifically retire Mariano's pinstriped number, including a ceremony or whatever else they do.

[Mephistopheles]

MLB already retired Mariano Rivera's number for every team, I'm not sure why we keep bringing him up.

This. He wears #42, people. Ever heard of Jackie Robinson?

 

Do you really think he doesn't know this?

 

On second thought....the poster is.... ;)

[Machina]

Forgot about Rivera. He is worthy for sure.

 

I was just pointing it out because I know some of the big time relief pitchers started out as starters. But what you all said is very true, people who are only relief pitchers is fairly new to the game of baseball. And like I said earlier, part of my love for this team is that they do not have a lot of retired numbers. Makes it a little more special to me to apperciate the history of the Cubs. I am not comparing the Cubs to any other teams, but just saying, Yankees retired 16 numbers, Dodgers 10, Cardinals 11, Astros 11. Cubs only having 4 retired numbers adds to the accomplishment a bit more to me.

 

As far as Sosa, he numbers were worthy, but does the Steroids/Banned Substance alligations tarnish that? To me, I would not like to see Sosa's number retired. But that is just my preference and personal feeling right now. If the organization decides differently, they will have my support in that.