Miles has a sore right shoulder

[cubsfan26]

And if true, it proves that 5-7 other GMs made horrible signings.

 

Yes and Aaron Miles had 8 teams after him, but only Cubs and Cards would offer two year deals. Still he would have made over 2m with whoever he signed with. Point is thats the going rate for back up middle infielders this offseason. I see you disagree with it, but that doesn't make you right. Major League GM's don't always just rate guys on how much power they have. Some GM's don't mind having a guy who can hit for average off the bench, even if he doesn't walk alot or hit for power, especially if he can play a few postions. I'm not saying Aaron Miles is good, but he's not worthless either. I have a feeling people won't hate Miles as much by the end of the season. Cardinals fans didn't seem to hate him all that much when he played there, and most I know liked having him off the bench. So once we actually see the guy play, the opinions might be a little different. We will have to see, but overreacting about his contract over and over again is kinda overdone.

 

 

The Cubs just signed a guy in German, who could fill Miles's role just as well.

 

Maybe, German was horrible last year, and was released by the Royals for a reason. German is gonna be 32, and wasn't even a major leaguer until 2006. He had two good seasons in 06 and 07, so it's ok to take a flyer on him. But he shouldn't be someone we should count on as a main back up. Miles has no power, but I'll take 290/330 off the bench from my back up middle infielder.

[bcl412]

I'm pretty sure if Miles continues playing like he has in his career, most on this board will still talk about how much he sucks (he does). Theriot is better and he still gets bashed by some on here.

[cubsfan26]

I'm pretty sure if Miles continues playing like he has in his career, most on this board will still talk about how much he sucks (he does). Theriot is better and he still gets bashed by some on here.

 

 

If Miles was a everyday player, I would say he sucks. But putting up his type of numbers as a bench player is fine with me. Theriot is a everyday player, so people are harder on him. Part of the reason why Theriot gets bashed though, is because people have a opinion of him, and they won't allow themselves to admit there wrong. So they just say Theriot 08 season was a fluke, and point out his low power or his average defense at SS to bash him.

 

 

 

I think the biggest problem with fans these days, is they only focus on how much power a guy has. But people need to realize there are a ton of major league players with very little power, and they make alot of money and have good careers, because they hit for average, take a walk and do other things. People wanna rate every player the same way, and personally I can't do that. If a SS hits for average and gets on base, I'm not gonna bash him for not having a 400-500 SLG. On a team like the Cubs who have alot of guys with power, Theriot is just fine hitting for average and getting on base. Of course if he was on another team that needed more power he wouldn't be as valueable.

[bcl412]

It's not really power people are looking for. It's production, power is a big part of it but so is getting on base and what not. The problem is, people just don't think Miles is that productive.

[SouthSideRyan]

I bet a lot of the same people who ripped on Cedeno all last year are going to be the same people praising Miles this year when he puts up the same exact #s with worse defense for more money. Edited March 13, 2009 by SouthSideRyan

[cubbinalltheway]

It's not really power people are looking for. It's production, power is a big part of it but so is getting on base and what not. The problem is, people just don't think Miles is that productive.

he's not that productive. but at the same time, not many backup middle infielders are. that's, essentially, why they're backups. i don't have a problem with miles on the roster. if not miles, we'd have another light hitting middle infielder. he's overpaid though, that's my problem.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

I think the biggest problem with fans these days, is they only focus on how much power a guy has.

 

Completely disagree. When people talk about a player's lack of power, they aren't saying they want everybody to be a 30 HR guy. When a player has such an extreme lack of power as Theriot has, it's a problem. But if all a guy has is some power, it's not like people are in love with him.

 

There really aren't a lot of guys out there having nice careers with absolutely no power. Yes, there are backup catchers and utility players who make some nice coin for a while because they fill a specific niche, but a guy who brings no power and who's OBP relies so heavily on hitting singles just isn't going to hold up over time as a regular contributor. If Theriot has an OBP over .380 again, it would be nice, but just one year prior he was at .326 and one of the most useless regular players in baseball. Personally I don't expect him to repeat his 2008 season, and if he doesn't, he's going to be a drag on the team.

[Roast]

It's not really power people are looking for. It's production, power is a big part of it but so is getting on base and what not. The problem is, people just don't think Miles is that productive.

And that's because he's not (I'm not implying that you think he is, either).

 

Miles has a career .329 OBP, so you can't even really argue that he get's on base. Sure, last year he had a .355 OBP, which is just fine for his role. If he were to repeat last years numbers i'd be thrilled. But the problem is there's no reason to assume he will, that's the only year he has ever come close to that level of play. And even that was inflated by a batting average that was 27 points higher than the year before - he actually took two LESS walks last year than the year prior. It should also be pointed out that his BABIP was far higher (.342) than his career avg BABIP (.313) last year, indicating the possibility of last years high average being just plain luck.

 

Anyway, yeah, miles sucks.

[bcl412]

It's not really power people are looking for. It's production, power is a big part of it but so is getting on base and what not. The problem is, people just don't think Miles is that productive.

he's not that productive. but at the same time, not many backup middle infielders are. that's, essentially, why they're backups. i don't have a problem with miles on the roster. if not miles, we'd have another light hitting middle infielder. he's overpaid though, that's my problem.

 

Or, to continue an overblown point that I see all sides to but is the large reason why there is contempt for Miles, we'd have Mark DeRosa.

[cubbinalltheway]

It's not really power people are looking for. It's production, power is a big part of it but so is getting on base and what not. The problem is, people just don't think Miles is that productive.

he's not that productive. but at the same time, not many backup middle infielders are. that's, essentially, why they're backups. i don't have a problem with miles on the roster. if not miles, we'd have another light hitting middle infielder. he's overpaid though, that's my problem.

 

Or, to continue an overblown point that I see all sides to but is the large reason why there is contempt for Miles, we'd have Mark DeRosa.

derosa wasnt traded so that we could sign miles, come on.

[bcl412]

It's not really power people are looking for. It's production, power is a big part of it but so is getting on base and what not. The problem is, people just don't think Miles is that productive.

he's not that productive. but at the same time, not many backup middle infielders are. that's, essentially, why they're backups. i don't have a problem with miles on the roster. if not miles, we'd have another light hitting middle infielder. he's overpaid though, that's my problem.

 

Or, to continue an overblown point that I see all sides to but is the large reason why there is contempt for Miles, we'd have Mark DeRosa.

derosa wasnt traded so that we could sign miles, come on.

 

No, and I didn't say that. But is he not seen as a replacement for Miles? Yes, he is.

[cubsfan26]

There really aren't a lot of guys out there having nice careers with absolutely no power. Yes, there are backup catchers and utility players who make some nice coin for a while because they fill a specific niche, but a guy who brings no power and who's OBP relies so heavily on hitting singles just isn't going to hold up over time as a regular contributor

 

There's plenty of middle infielders who had very little power had good careers and made some money. Luis Castillo, David Eckstein are just a few off the top of my head, even Craig Counsell had 5 years or so when he was a everyday player. Jason Kendall had a pretty good career, with no power as well. If you're a middle infielder or catcher, and you hit for average and can take a walk you can have a good career as a regular in the majors with no power.

 

 

If Theriot has an OBP over .380 again, it would be nice, but just one year prior he was at .326 and one of the most useless regular players in baseball. Personally I don't expect him to repeat his 2008 season, and if he doesn't, he's going to be a drag on the team

 

The stats tell me Theriot OBP will be alot closer to 380 then 326. When you look at Theriot minor league numbers after he gave up switch hitting his OBP was 365,365 and 367. He also put up a 412 OBP in 134 AB's in the majors in 06. Plus most of his 07 season, his OBP was alot closer to 350 for most of the season, before he ran out of gas. Like alot of players do, after getting so many AB's for the first time. So right now the 326 OBP looks alot more like a fluke then the 380s. Theriot doesn't have the power to be a star, but as long as he hits for average and gets on base he's still a good/solid player in my eyes, and helps the team win. Theriot is a good fit for a team like the Cubs, because they have plenty of power, and he gets on base alot for those hitters.

[Guest]

I bet a lot of the same people who ripped on Cedeno all last year are going to be the same people praising Miles this year when he puts up the same exact #s with worse defense for more money.

 

Of course they are.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

There really aren't a lot of guys out there having nice careers with absolutely no power. Yes, there are backup catchers and utility players who make some nice coin for a while because they fill a specific niche, but a guy who brings no power and who's OBP relies so heavily on hitting singles just isn't going to hold up over time as a regular contributor

 

There's plenty of middle infielders who had very little power had good careers and made some money. Luis Castillo, David Eckstein are just a few off the top of my head, even Craig Counsell had 5 years or so when he was a everyday player. Jason Kendall had a pretty good career, with no power as well. If you're a middle infielder or catcher, and you hit for average and can take a walk you can have a good career as a regular in the majors with no power.

 

Miles doesn't get on base at near the rate of any of those guys. Last year's BABIP inflated season was the only time he's ever exceeded a .330 OBP. The lowest of those guys you mentioned is Counsell at a career .343, with Eckstein over .350 and Castillo and Kendall pushing .370.

 

That's the problem. Miles has one thing he does well, hit singles. His physique and approach prevent him from having any type of fluky power success, he doesn't take enough walks to have value as a Theriot/Eckstein type player, he's too old to have any type of age related improvement, and he's a below average defender wherever he plays. There's zero upside to having him on the roster, and we paid well over his value to guarantee he's around for 2 years. That's why people are continually upset about him.

[cubsfan26]

Miles has a career .329 OBP, so you can't even really argue that he get's on base. Sure, last year he had a .355 OBP, which is just fine for his role. If he were to repeat last years numbers i'd be thrilled

 

 

Miles career numbers of 290 and 329 OBP are just fine for a bench player. If Miles could get on base at a higher rate, he would be seen as a everyday player(like Theriot and many others). Last year he had a big year and the media started thinking he might be a regular this year, but obviously the Cubs don't expect him to repeat those numbers. Most back up middle infielders don't have higher then a 329 career OBP, and thats why there back ups. Miles asset to the bench is he could hit for average. He can fill in for a regular and go 2 for 4 on any given day, and he can come off the bench and get a big hit off a good pitcher. Having a guy who can consistently hit the ball off the bench is valueable to a team, even if he's only getting singles. There was plenty of times last year, when if Cedeno or Ward just got a single, we would have gotten runs and won a game we lost. Of course the bench also needs power, and thats why Hoffpauir or even Koskie need to be on the roster, and be at the plate with alot of guys on base. But I don't see how having Miles as a back up is bad for the team.

[cubsfan26]

There really aren't a lot of guys out there having nice careers with absolutely no power. Yes, there are backup catchers and utility players who make some nice coin for a while because they fill a specific niche, but a guy who brings no power and who's OBP relies so heavily on hitting singles just isn't going to hold up over time as a regular contributor

 

There's plenty of middle infielders who had very little power had good careers and made some money. Luis Castillo, David Eckstein are just a few off the top of my head, even Craig Counsell had 5 years or so when he was a everyday player. Jason Kendall had a pretty good career, with no power as well. If you're a middle infielder or catcher, and you hit for average and can take a walk you can have a good career as a regular in the majors with no power.

 

Miles doesn't get on base at near the rate of any of those guys. Last year's BABIP inflated season was the only time he's ever exceeded a .330 OBP. The lowest of those guys you mentioned is Counsell at a career .343, with Eckstein over .350 and Castillo and Kendall pushing .370.

 

That's the problem. Miles has one thing he does well, hit singles. His physique and approach prevent him from having any type of fluky power success, he doesn't take enough walks to have value as a Theriot/Eckstein type player, he's too old to have any type of age related improvement, and he's a below average defender wherever he plays. There's zero upside to having him on the roster, and we paid well over his value to guarantee he's around for 2 years. That's why people are continually upset about him.

 

 

I agree, I was talking about Theriot when i was bringing those guys up. Miles is a bench player, not alot of back up infielders career numbers are better then 290/330 and thats why there back ups. I would say Miles sucks to if he was playing everyday, but as a bench player I'm fine with him.

[CubColtPacer]

There really aren't a lot of guys out there having nice careers with absolutely no power. Yes, there are backup catchers and utility players who make some nice coin for a while because they fill a specific niche, but a guy who brings no power and who's OBP relies so heavily on hitting singles just isn't going to hold up over time as a regular contributor

 

There's plenty of middle infielders who had very little power had good careers and made some money. Luis Castillo, David Eckstein are just a few off the top of my head, even Craig Counsell had 5 years or so when he was a everyday player. Jason Kendall had a pretty good career, with no power as well. If you're a middle infielder or catcher, and you hit for average and can take a walk you can have a good career as a regular in the majors with no power.

 

Miles doesn't get on base at near the rate of any of those guys. Last year's BABIP inflated season was the only time he's ever exceeded a .330 OBP. The lowest of those guys you mentioned is Counsell at a career .343, with Eckstein over .350 and Castillo and Kendall pushing .370.

 

That's the problem. Miles has one thing he does well, hit singles. His physique and approach prevent him from having any type of fluky power success, he doesn't take enough walks to have value as a Theriot/Eckstein type player, he's too old to have any type of age related improvement, and he's a below average defender wherever he plays. There's zero upside to having him on the roster, and we paid well over his value to guarantee he's around for 2 years. That's why people are continually upset about him.

 

 

I agree, I was talking about Theriot when i was bringing those guys up. Miles is a bench player, not alot of back up infielders career numbers are better then 290/330 and thats why there back ups. I would say Miles sucks to if he was playing everyday, but as a bench player I'm fine with him.

 

That's true that the numbers for Miles are consistent with many backup middle infielders. But most backup infielders are known for their defense and that's why they get a job with their poor offensive numbers. Miles doesn't have that defense to fall back on. The reason his offense is getting criticized so much is because that's supposed to be his best asset, and so when that's seen to be poor that's a big problem.

[haltz]

OMG you guys are still talking about Aaron Miles? Ok we get it you don't like him or his contract. That sucks, but thats the going rate for his type of player this offseason. Five to seven very simliar players signed very simliar contracts.

 

Name them.

Aside from last year and his fluke BA, it's fun to try and name any guys like Miles that stick around in the big leagues. 70something OPS+, can't play SS.. he owes Tony LaRussa quite a bit for putting him there when he clearly should never ever be playing the position.

[cubsfan26]

OMG you guys are still talking about Aaron Miles? Ok we get it you don't like him or his contract. That sucks, but thats the going rate for his type of player this offseason. Five to seven very simliar players signed very simliar contracts.

 

Name them.

Aside from last year and his fluke BA, it's fun to try and name any guys like Miles that stick around in the big leagues. 70something OPS+, can't play SS.. he owes Tony LaRussa quite a bit for putting him there when he clearly should never ever be playing the position.

 

Off the top of my head, Ramon Vazquez, Jerry Hairston, Nick Punto, Alex Cora, and Felipe Lopez are all making over 2m next year. I'm sure there's others making around that or simliar salaries or as well, but I don't feel like looking it up right now.

[haltz]

Cora, Punto and Hairston are better defenders, Vazquez has a 0 UZR at SS. Chone has Lopez as a league average hitter this year.

 

There might be other guys (Carlos Garcia was one fairly recently) that don't play good defense, have a career < 80 OPS+ and are limited to 2B, but I don't know of too many. Backup 2B basically means replacement level and that's what Miles amounts to.

[17 Seconds]

Miles has a career .329 OBP, so you can't even really argue that he get's on base. Sure, last year he had a .355 OBP, which is just fine for his role. If he were to repeat last years numbers i'd be thrilled

 

 

Miles career numbers of 290 and 329 OBP are just fine for a bench player. If Miles could get on base at a higher rate, he would be seen as a everyday player(like Theriot and many others). Last year he had a big year and the media started thinking he might be a regular this year, but obviously the Cubs don't expect him to repeat those numbers. Most back up middle infielders don't have higher then a 329 career OBP, and thats why there back ups. Miles asset to the bench is he could hit for average. He can fill in for a regular and go 2 for 4 on any given day, and he can come off the bench and get a big hit off a good pitcher. Having a guy who can consistently hit the ball off the bench is valueable to a team, even if he's only getting singles. There was plenty of times last year, when if Cedeno or Ward just got a single, we would have gotten runs and won a game we lost. Of course the bench also needs power, and thats why Hoffpauir or even Koskie need to be on the roster, and be at the plate with alot of guys on base. But I don't see how having Miles as a back up is bad for the team.

 

I know you love to defend hendry at all costs, but you sill haven't explained why it's okay to give a crappy backup infielder a 2 year deal

[17 Seconds]

I'm pretty sure if Miles continues playing like he has in his career, most on this board will still talk about how much he sucks (he does). Theriot is better and he still gets bashed by some on here.

 

I think the biggest problem with fans these days, is they only focus on how much power a guy has. But people need to realize there are a ton of major league players with very little power, and they make alot of money and have good careers, because they hit for average, take a walk and do other things..

 

I don't know why you're acting as though Aaron Miles gets on base or takes walks. he doesn't.

 

There are 2 main parts of hitting- getting on base, and getting as many total bases as possible. Miles sucks at both.

 

And I've put this off for a while, but I have to ask. Why do, seperate so many sentences, with commas?

[17 Seconds]

OMG you guys are still talking about Aaron Miles? Ok we get it you don't like him or his contract. That sucks, but thats the going rate for his type of player this offseason. Five to seven very simliar players signed very simliar contracts.

 

Name them.

Aside from last year and his fluke BA, it's fun to try and name any guys like Miles that stick around in the big leagues. 70something OPS+, can't play SS.. he owes Tony LaRussa quite a bit for putting him there when he clearly should never ever be playing the position.

 

Off the top of my head, Ramon Vazquez, Jerry Hairston, Nick Punto, Alex Cora, and Felipe Lopez are all making over 2m next year. I'm sure there's others making around that or simliar salaries or as well, but I don't feel like looking it up right now.

 

A) All those guys are better than Miles

 

B) Only 2 of those guys got 2 year deals

[cubbinalltheway]

Miles has a career .329 OBP, so you can't even really argue that he get's on base. Sure, last year he had a .355 OBP, which is just fine for his role. If he were to repeat last years numbers i'd be thrilled

 

 

Miles career numbers of 290 and 329 OBP are just fine for a bench player. If Miles could get on base at a higher rate, he would be seen as a everyday player(like Theriot and many others). Last year he had a big year and the media started thinking he might be a regular this year, but obviously the Cubs don't expect him to repeat those numbers. Most back up middle infielders don't have higher then a 329 career OBP, and thats why there back ups. Miles asset to the bench is he could hit for average. He can fill in for a regular and go 2 for 4 on any given day, and he can come off the bench and get a big hit off a good pitcher. Having a guy who can consistently hit the ball off the bench is valueable to a team, even if he's only getting singles. There was plenty of times last year, when if Cedeno or Ward just got a single, we would have gotten runs and won a game we lost. Of course the bench also needs power, and thats why Hoffpauir or even Koskie need to be on the roster, and be at the plate with alot of guys on base. But I don't see how having Miles as a back up is bad for the team.

 

I know you love to defend hendry at all costs, but you sill haven't explained why it's okay to give a crappy backup infielder a 2 year deal

what does that matter? the cubs, and just about every other major league team, are going to have a crappy backup infielder on the roster year after year. what difference does it make if you sign one to a two year deal, or sign ones to one year deals every year? the money is the problem with miles, not the years.

[17 Seconds]

Miles has a career .329 OBP, so you can't even really argue that he get's on base. Sure, last year he had a .355 OBP, which is just fine for his role. If he were to repeat last years numbers i'd be thrilled

 

 

Miles career numbers of 290 and 329 OBP are just fine for a bench player. If Miles could get on base at a higher rate, he would be seen as a everyday player(like Theriot and many others). Last year he had a big year and the media started thinking he might be a regular this year, but obviously the Cubs don't expect him to repeat those numbers. Most back up middle infielders don't have higher then a 329 career OBP, and thats why there back ups. Miles asset to the bench is he could hit for average. He can fill in for a regular and go 2 for 4 on any given day, and he can come off the bench and get a big hit off a good pitcher. Having a guy who can consistently hit the ball off the bench is valueable to a team, even if he's only getting singles. There was plenty of times last year, when if Cedeno or Ward just got a single, we would have gotten runs and won a game we lost. Of course the bench also needs power, and thats why Hoffpauir or even Koskie need to be on the roster, and be at the plate with alot of guys on base. But I don't see how having Miles as a back up is bad for the team.

 

I know you love to defend hendry at all costs, but you sill haven't explained why it's okay to give a crappy backup infielder a 2 year deal

what does that matter? the cubs, and just about every other major league team, are going to have a crappy backup infielder on the roster year after year. what difference does it make if you sign one to a two year deal, or sign ones to one year deals every year? the money is the problem with miles, not the years.

 

because with every player.... longer contract=higher risk. you risk that player getting hurt and paying for nothing, among other things. with crappy bench players who are found everywhere, there's absolutely no reason to offer a 2 year deal and up the risk for a player who is easily replaced in the offseason.