Miles has a sore right shoulder

[cubsfan26]

I know you love to defend hendry at all costs, but you sill haven't explained why it's okay to give a crappy backup infielder a 2 year deal

 

You do ever wonder why you get on so many people's bad side on this board? First of all I don't defend Hendry moves at all cost, what I do is give them a chance. Many people can't do that including yourself, and freak out over something and then are wrong about the move months later. But I never said giving him a two year deal was a good idea, because it wasn't a good idea. But 2m or 2.3m is about the going rate for a player like Miles this offseason.

 

 

 

I don't know why you're acting as though Aaron Miles gets on base or takes walks. he doesn't.

 

There are 2 main parts of hitting- getting on base, and getting as many total bases as possible. Miles sucks at both.

 

 

In the first part I was talking about Theriot, and the second part I'm not gonna bother explaining that to you. If you don't think having a guy who can get hits consistently off the bench means anything, then thats fine. I don't think you understand what role players are, and how they can be assets to a team. I disagree with giving Miles a two year deal, but there's nothing wrong at all with having him on the bench. Baseball isn't played on paper, and if you can't understand that I'm not gonna waste my time talking to you.

 

 

A) All those guys are better than Miles

 

Really? They might have simliar career OBP to Miles, but I'd take a 290/330 guy over a 260/330 guy any day of the week. Because more good things can happen with a hit then a walk. Again you think Miles is worthless, thats your opinion and I disagree. Is he a bad everyday player? Yes because he doesn't hit for power or walk enough, but there's a difference from everyday players and bench players.

[17 Seconds]

You do ever wonder why you get on so many people's bad side on this board? First of all I don't defend Hendry moves at all cost, what I do is give them a chance. Many people can't do that including yourself, and freak out over something and then are wrong about the move months later.

 

You just act like people aren't outloud to voice criticism. I haven't seen you ever acknowledge that Hendry has ever made even a questionable move. Hendry could trade Soto for Victor Zambrano and I think you'd get mad if people complained. You complain about people complaining and not letting it die, but you do the same thing. You just argue the other side.

 

But 2m or 2.3m is about the going rate for a player like Miles this offseason.

 

Well a 2 year contract isn't the going rate, but that's besdie the point. Why should it be okay that we waste money on crappy players as long as other teams are doing the same? We didn't need Miles. He doesn't really make this team better. Cedeno could have done the same thing for far less money.

 

If you don't think having a guy who can get hits consistently off the bench means anything, then thats fine. I don't think you understand what role players are, and how they can be assets to a team. I disagree with giving Miles a two year deal, but there's nothing wrong at all with having him on the bench. Baseball isn't played on paper, and if you can't understand that I'm not gonna waste my time talking to you.

 

I don't know why you don't unserstand that getting a single 29 percent of the time doesn't really mean anything if you don't do anything else. Imagine Juan Pierre without the speed. Is that a productive player? Because that's exactly what Miles is as a hitter. He's Juan Pierre without the speed.... only worse. Think about that for a second. Juan Pierre without the speed is still a better offensive player than Aaron Miles.

 

Really? They might have simliar career OBP to Miles, but I'd take a 290/330 guy over a 260/330 guy any day of the week. Because more good things can happen with a hit then a walk. Again you think Miles is worthless, thats your opinion and I disagree. Is he a bad everyday player? Yes because he doesn't hit for power or walk enough, but there's a difference from everyday players and bench players.

 

Would you take a .260/.330/.360 guy over a .260/.330/.410 guy? That's the question that actually is relevant.

 

See, you only cite BA and OBP because those are the only things you can say he's comparable to. You say that slugging percentage is everything, but nobody is saying that. It's the complete opposite actually. You're pretending like it's nothing so you can say Miles is as good as those guys. Why else would you leave it out when comparing them? All of those guys other than Punto have more productive career numbers than Miles, despite Miles hitting a single more often than them.

[Peoriaman]

it's like he's a considerably worse, comparably priced version of say mark derosa.

what are you talking about? derosa makes more than two times what miles makes. if you're gonna bitch about trading derosa and signing miles (which is perfectly valid) in the offseason, at least have the facts straight.

 

Jesus, dude - who peed in your cornflakes? Miles is making 2+million and DeRosa is making 5+ million this year. All he said is that the prices were comparable. Yes it's double his salary but in the grand scheme of things when you have players making 15-20 mil, the ~3M difference between the two players is certainly comparable.

 

 

sorry, 2 mil and 5 mil isn't comparable.

[cubbinalltheway]

You just act like people aren't outloud to voice criticism.

lol, what? i know you meant "allowed" but how do you mistake those two?

[Roast]

it's like he's a considerably worse, comparably priced version of say mark derosa.

what are you talking about? derosa makes more than two times what miles makes. if you're gonna bitch about trading derosa and signing miles (which is perfectly valid) in the offseason, at least have the facts straight.

 

Jesus, dude - who peed in your cornflakes? Miles is making 2+million and DeRosa is making 5+ million this year. All he said is that the prices were comparable. Yes it's double his salary but in the grand scheme of things when you have players making 15-20 mil, the ~3M difference between the two players is certainly comparable.

 

 

sorry, 2 mil and 5 mil isn't comparable.

In your opinion.

 

I agree it's a bit of a stretch, but like someone pointed out earlier, on a team with a 140 million dollar payroll, 3 million bucks isn't much.

[badnews]

I still can't believe people are defending this Aaron Miles nonsense. It'd be like, if you're rating major league baseball players on a scale of 1-100, and the people who don't like him say he's a 5, than there's this wackjob group who always has to pick a fight and say, no he's not a 5 on a scale of 1-100, he's a 15 or a 20. Who gives a ****. He's horrid. His empty batting average is a joke. Not even the 25th man on the crappiest team in baseball's roster should be Aaron Miles. I'm not sure where people equate "bench player" with "Useless .650 OPS slug with no defense, speed, or any other assets whatsoever." The standards for bench players are ridiculously low on here.

 

In conclusion, if you've spent more than 3 minutes of your life defending Aaron Miles you should have the ability to choose how you utilize your free time taken away from you and given to someone who exercises better decision making skills.

[cubbinalltheway]

it's like he's a considerably worse, comparably priced version of say mark derosa.

what are you talking about? derosa makes more than two times what miles makes. if you're gonna bitch about trading derosa and signing miles (which is perfectly valid) in the offseason, at least have the facts straight.

 

Jesus, dude - who peed in your cornflakes? Miles is making 2+million and DeRosa is making 5+ million this year. All he said is that the prices were comparable. Yes it's double his salary but in the grand scheme of things when you have players making 15-20 mil, the ~3M difference between the two players is certainly comparable.

 

 

sorry, 2 mil and 5 mil isn't comparable.

In your opinion.

 

I agree it's a bit of a stretch, but like someone pointed out earlier, on a team with a 140 million dollar payroll, 3 million bucks isn't much.

and as someone else pointed out (me), when 7 of your 25 players make a combined 86 million, a difference of 3 million dollars is certainly significant when it comes to filling out your roster.

[17 Seconds]

I still can't believe people are defending this Aaron Miles nonsense. It'd be like, if you're rating major league baseball players on a scale of 1-100, and the people who don't like him say he's a 5, than there's this wackjob group who always has to pick a fight and say, no he's not a 5 on a scale of 1-100, he's a 15 or a 20. Who gives a ****. He's horrid. His empty batting average is a joke. Not even the 25th man on the crappiest team in baseball's roster should be Aaron Miles. I'm not sure where people equate "bench player" with "Useless .650 OPS slug with no defense, speed, or any other assets whatsoever." The standards for bench players are ridiculously low on here.

 

In conclusion, if you've spent more than 3 minutes of your life defending Aaron Miles you should have the ability to choose how you utilize your free time taken away from you and given to someone who exercises better decision making skills.

 

but gms value guys who can get a single 29 percent of the time off the bench... or something like that.

[cubsfan26]

You just act like people aren't outloud to voice criticism. I haven't seen you ever acknowledge that Hendry has ever made even a questionable move. Hendry could trade Soto for Victor Zambrano and I think you'd get mad if people complained. You complain about people complaining and not letting it die, but you do the same thing. You just argue the other side.

 

 

Hendry didn't make nearly the questionable moves that people were trying to claim he did. But give it some time, Hendry is coming off a two seasons when plenty of somewhat questionable moves worked out well for him. So sorry if I'm gonna give a few of them a chance, before I bash the guy. Especially when the Heilman, and Gregg trades are already started to look much better then they did a few months ago.

 

Cedeno could have done the same thing for far less money.

 

The numbers would disagree with you.

 

 

I don't know why you don't unserstand that getting a single 29 percent of the time doesn't really mean anything if you don't do anything else. Imagine Juan Pierre without the speed. Is that a productive player? Because that's exactly what Miles is as a hitter. He's Juan Pierre without the speed.... only worse. Think about that for a second. Juan Pierre without the speed is still a better offensive player than Aaron Miles.

 

Yes if Juan Pierre was a middle infielder and a bench player, I would be fine with having him on the bench for 2m. Because the guy can hit the baseball. Can he hit to be a regular? No, do I want him out there everyday? No. Even though he's only getting singles can still be a asset to the team as a bench player. Again there's a difference between productive bench players and everyday players. You gotta hold bench players at different standards, you can't expect many bench players to hit for average, have power and take walks. Especially back up middle infielders, so I'm fine with having a bench player who can hit pretty well for average.

 

Would you take a .260/.330/.360 guy over a .260/.330/.410 guy? That's the question that actually is relevant

 

Alex Cora-245/313/662

Jerry Hairston-260/330/700

Felipe Lopez-262/330/725(worse then Miles the last two years)

Ramon Vazquez-257/328/686(numbers inflated by playing in Texas)

Nick Punto-252/319/651

 

Aaron Miles-289/329/693

 

So I don't see many 410 SLG guys on this list, especially recently. Then when you factor in Miles put up those numbers while averageing over 400 plus a season. Well I rest my case, but as others pointed out I'm not gonna waste my time defending Miles anymore. He's a not a good baseball player, but he can be a asset to a team and is fine to have off the bench. If you disagree with that fine, I don't care anymore.

[SouthSideRyan]

So how long before somebody brings up that half of Miles's career was in Colorado?

 

And that he's Mike Fontenot level embarrassing at SS.

[treebird]

So how long before somebody brings up that half of Miles's career was in Colorado?

 

And that he's Mike Fontenot level embarrassing at SS.

 

that's what i've never understood. people want to say miles can play multiple positions, but if we can deal with him playing short, we can throw fontenot there too.

[17 Seconds]

Hendry didn't make nearly the questionable moves that people were trying to claim he did. But give it some time, Hendry is coming off a two seasons when plenty of somewhat questionable moves worked out well for him. So sorry if I'm gonna give a few of them a chance, before I bash the guy. Especially when the Heilman, and Gregg trades are already started to look much better then they did a few months ago.

 

This is exactly what I mean when I say that you give him a free pass. Nothing else hendry has done changes anything about who Aaron Miles is.

 

The numbers would disagree with you.

 

Not really. Miles is better offensively, but at least Cedeno can actually play shortstop. I don't think some people realize that Miles is not even close to the utility guy (in terms of defense) that DeRosa was.

 

Alex Cora-245/313/662

Jerry Hairston-260/330/700

Felipe Lopez-262/330/725(worse then Miles the last two years)

Ramon Vazquez-257/328/686(numbers inflated by playing in Texas)

Nick Punto-252/319/651

 

Aaron Miles-289/329/693

 

So I don't see many 410 SLG guys on this list, especially recently. .

 

The .410 wasn't in reference to those guys. It was just an example of how you were completely ignoring slugging percentage.

 

Since you mention Vazquez's numbers being inflated by Texas....

 

Career OPS

 

Miles-77

Vazquez- 85

Hairston- 85

Lopez- 89

Cora-75

Punto- 74

 

The only guys he beats are Cora and Punto, but those guys' value comes from their defense. That's where I get the "they are all better than Miles" thing.

 

Well I rest my case, but as others pointed out I'm not gonna waste my time defending Miles anymore. He's a not a good baseball player, but he can be a asset to a team and is fine to have off the bench. If you disagree with that fine, I don't care anymore.

 

That's what you keep saying, then you always come back the second anybody ever voices anything negative about Miles and tell us all how we should shut up and stop complaining about it. You bring it on yourself.

[cubsfan26]

This is exactly what I mean when I say that you give him a free pass. Nothing else hendry has done changes anything about who Aaron Miles is.

 

Thats because we don't know how these moves will work out yet and I'm giving them a chance. Like I pointed out before I don't mind having Aaron Miles on the team. I'm fine with him coming off the bench, and think he will be a asset to the team. Do I think he should have gotten a two year deal? No, but if he hits like he did most of the last two seasons, it won't be a bad deal no matter what you think.

[cubsfan26]

So how long before somebody brings up that half of Miles's career was in Colorado?

 

 

If they did it wouldn't really make a whole lot of sense since Miles hit 289/335/698(little better then career numbers) over the last three years with the Cardinals. So if anything his numbers with the Rockies bring his career numbers down some.

[17 Seconds]

This is exactly what I mean when I say that you give him a free pass. Nothing else hendry has done changes anything about who Aaron Miles is.

 

No, but if he hits like he did most of the last two seasons, it won't be a bad deal no matter what you think.

 

lol okay. that settles it then.

 

 

If they did it wouldn't really make a whole lot of sense since Miles hit 289/335/698(little better then career numbers) over the last three years with the Cardinals. So if anything his numbers with the Rockies bring his career numbers down some.

 

or he was aided by coors in his first few seasons and his numbers those years would have been worse than his numbers with the cardinals if not for the park. he had some pretty hefty splits while he was in colorado, so i'd say his career numbers are definitely a bit better because of it.

[17 Seconds]

Piniella projected that Fontenot and Miles would get 350-400 at-bats each, with Ryan Theriot totaling about 500.

 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090314&content_id=3986650&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

 

gross. sounds like a strict platoon to me

[RedFlash]

Piniella projected that Fontenot and Miles would get 350-400 at-bats each, with Ryan Theriot totaling about 500.

 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090314&content_id=3986650&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

 

gross.

 

Here's to Mike Fontenot hitting lefties unbelievably awesome to start the yr. I want nothing to do with Miles getting the same amount of at-bats as Fontenot.

[cubsfan26]

Piniella projected that Fontenot and Miles would get 350-400 at-bats each, with Ryan Theriot totaling about 500.

 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090314&content_id=3986650&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

 

gross.

 

Here's to Mike Fontenot hitting lefties unbelievably awesome to start the yr. I want nothing to do with Miles getting the same amount of at-bats as Fontenot.

 

Thats kinda what I expected with Miles helping out Fontenot against LH pitchers and taking Cedeno's AB's.

[17 Seconds]

But if those projections of Lou's end up being true, that means Miles is getting all the at-bats vs lefties. That also means we have no LHB in the lineup against lefties, and I don't really like that either.

[cubsfan26]

Thats what it basically was last year though, and we did pretty well against LH pitchers. Fukudome was the only regular LH hitter in the line-up and he rarely played against LH pitchers late in the year. I know the current plan is for Fukudome to be in a platoon with Reed Johnson, but if he's hitting well he will get plenty of starts against LH pitching. I think the platoon in CF is something the Cubs rather not do if they can. I think it's more of a back up plan, and use to take some pressure off Fukudome.

[17 Seconds]

I don't have numbers to back this up and it's been discussed here before, but it seems like we mashed crappy lefties (especially Pitt lefties), but had a lot of trouble against good lefties.

[SouthSideRyan]

Piniella projected that Fontenot and Miles would get 350-400 at-bats each, with Ryan Theriot totaling about 500.

 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090314&content_id=3986650&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

 

gross. sounds like a strict platoon to me

 

Miles getting 400 ABs isn't a strict platoon, it's the stuff of horrific nightmares.

[17 Seconds]

This is exactly what I mean when I say that you give him a free pass. Nothing else hendry has done changes anything about who Aaron Miles is.

 

Thats because we don't know how these moves will work out yet and I'm giving them a chance. Like I pointed out before I don't mind having Aaron Miles on the team. I'm fine with him coming off the bench, and think he will be a asset to the team. Do I think he should have gotten a two year deal? No, but if he hits like he did most of the last two seasons, it won't be a bad deal no matter what you think.

 

By the way, with Lou saying he wants 400 at-bats for Miles, you can no longer use the argument about him being fine off the bench. 400's at-bats is starting 2 out of every 3 games. The money isn't the worst part. It's that we're going to be giving so much playing time to a crappy player.

[cubsfan26]

Well Lou said 350-400, I assume it will be closer to 350 depending on health. But thats what Miles has gotten almost every year of his career, and I always expected him to get AB's in that range. He will be getting 120 AB's or so against LH pitching while platooning with Fontenot. Then he will get the 220 AB's or so that Cedeno got last year. When you only have one back up infielder, he's gonna end up with a good amount of AB's. If the Cubs end up with adding another back up infielder, then there's no way Miles will get that many AB's though. But with the current roster as is, he will probably get that many AB's. If Miles for some reason ends up with alot less AB's(then usual), who knows his numbers might be alot better.

[17 Seconds]

My point was that your main defense for Miles has been that what he does it good enough for somebody off the bench. 350-400 at-bats isn't off the bench. That's playing more than half the time.