Pie

[soapy]

 

What you say is true, but do you really think Gathright offers much (or any) more than Pie as a 25th man? They seem to be almost the same player, no? I guess I really don't see what Gathright can do that Pie can't, besides make a little more contact. 2007 was the only time he did anything. Once you consider age, I really have a hard time considering Gathright a better option.

 

He probably does, Gathright will hit for a better avg., Pie would hit for more power, Gathright is a much better baserunner, Pie is better defensively while both are above avg. defensively.

 

Pie didn't do enough last year to merit being on the 25 man roster and with those flaws I mentioned, I don't see him ever becoming an everyday CF'er. The Cubs aren't in a position to try and develop an inferior player on the 25 man roster (even a 25th man) when they are trying to win it all and potential upgrades are avail. at minimal cost.

 

even if the bold is true (i don't necessarily think it is), i still think they're essentially putting a player equivalent to Pie into that 25th spot, for more money. i guess your opinion is that Gathright offers more because of his BA and baserunning. i just don't see it. any upgrade is extremely minimal and (IMO) neutralized once age and potential are considered.

[UK1679666180]

 

I don't get this line of thinking. If anybody can afford to develop guys at the back end of a roster it's a team that should be able to coast to a division title. Almost every single player essentially has to develop in the majors. A team like the Cubs, with very little quality in the minor leagues, is going to depend heavily on whatever they can get from the minors. Every year they are in a position to withstand established veterans having crappy years on the 25-man roster, why can't they deal with a kid who has some upside?

 

How is he going to develop at the ML level as the 25th man and how much upside does Pie have?

 

He'd be the 5th OF'er and well down Lou's bench depth chart and likely behind a platoon in CF with a manager who feels comfortable using the RH'ed part of that platoon against RH'ers.

 

Pie won't get many ABs with the Cubs, he's done everything he can at AAA, and his potential right now is that of a reserve CF'er, IMO.

 

I don't see him ever developing here at the ML level given the limited opportunities he's going to get and even if he did develop somewhat, his ceiling is likely limited to a reserve role given his flaws at the plate.

 

If there was more reward there, I would agree, but given the poss. marginal improvement of Gathright over Pie compared to poss. marginal improvement of where Pie is at now to a reserve OF'er, give me Gathright and the improvements now.

[UK1679666180]

even if the bold is true (i don't necessarily think it is), i still think they're essentially putting a player equivalent to Pie into that 25th spot, for more money. i guess your opinion is that Gathright offers more because of his BA and baserunning. i just don't see it. any upgrade is extremely minimal and (IMO) neutralized once age and potential are considered.

 

 

Overall, (right now) Gathright is a better hitter and baserunner right now and it isn't worth finding out whether or not a below average player (Pie) can improve to become slightly better than another below avg. player (Gathright).

[Hairyducked Idiot]

even if the bold is true (i don't necessarily think it is), i still think they're essentially putting a player equivalent to Pie into that 25th spot, for more money. i guess your opinion is that Gathright offers more because of his BA and baserunning. i just don't see it. any upgrade is extremely minimal and (IMO) neutralized once age and potential are considered.

 

 

Overall, (right now) Gathright is a better hitter and baserunner right now and it isn't worth finding out whether or not a below average player (Pie) can improve to become slightly better than another below avg. player (Gathright).

 

I really question whether Gathright is a better hitter right now.

[UK1679666180]

even if the bold is true (i don't necessarily think it is), i still think they're essentially putting a player equivalent to Pie into that 25th spot, for more money. i guess your opinion is that Gathright offers more because of his BA and baserunning. i just don't see it. any upgrade is extremely minimal and (IMO) neutralized once age and potential are considered.

 

 

Overall, (right now) Gathright is a better hitter and baserunner right now and it isn't worth finding out whether or not a below average player (Pie) can improve to become slightly better than another below avg. player (Gathright).

 

I really question whether Gathright is a better hitter right now.

 

It's better to be a bad slap hitter than someone who can't make contact or center the ball.

[soapy]

even if the bold is true (i don't necessarily think it is), i still think they're essentially putting a player equivalent to Pie into that 25th spot, for more money. i guess your opinion is that Gathright offers more because of his BA and baserunning. i just don't see it. any upgrade is extremely minimal and (IMO) neutralized once age and potential are considered.

 

 

Overall, (right now) Gathright is a better hitter and baserunner right now and it isn't worth finding out whether or not a below average player (Pie) can improve to become slightly better than another below avg. player (Gathright).

 

i hope you're right.

 

fwiw, i don't really expect Pie to become any more than what Gathright is at this point. i just didn't really see the need to spend the money on Gathright when you have Pie under control (at less cost) unless there is/was a trade in the works involving Pie.

[cubbinalltheway]

even if the bold is true (i don't necessarily think it is), i still think they're essentially putting a player equivalent to Pie into that 25th spot, for more money. i guess your opinion is that Gathright offers more because of his BA and baserunning. i just don't see it. any upgrade is extremely minimal and (IMO) neutralized once age and potential are considered.

 

 

Overall, (right now) Gathright is a better hitter and baserunner right now and it isn't worth finding out whether or not a below average player (Pie) can improve to become slightly better than another below avg. player (Gathright).

i agree. too many people are still holding on to the "pie was a great prospect" mentality. yeah, he was. as in, used to be. he hasn't done anything at all to show that he can succeed at this level. and i know, playing time, sporadic at bats, etc. regardless of whether he has had a good chance, fair chance, etc. or not, he hasn't done anything. that's no one's fault but his own.

[UK1679666180]

even if the bold is true (i don't necessarily think it is), i still think they're essentially putting a player equivalent to Pie into that 25th spot, for more money. i guess your opinion is that Gathright offers more because of his BA and baserunning. i just don't see it. any upgrade is extremely minimal and (IMO) neutralized once age and potential are considered.

 

 

Overall, (right now) Gathright is a better hitter and baserunner right now and it isn't worth finding out whether or not a below average player (Pie) can improve to become slightly better than another below avg. player (Gathright).

 

i hope you're right.

 

fwiw, i don't really expect Pie to become any more than what Gathright is at this point. i just didn't really see the need to spend the money on Gathright when you have Pie under control (at less cost) unless there is/was a trade in the works involving Pie.

 

I can't see Pie being traded for anything of value, maybe a team has too many Low-A 3B and need to get rid of one and have a spot for a AAA Cf'er. 500K or whatever the salary difference would be is nothing as far as payroll.

[soapy]

I can't see Pie being traded for anything of value, maybe a team has too many Low-A 3B and need to get rid of one and have a spot for a AAA Cf'er. 500K or whatever the salary difference would be is nothing as far as payroll.

 

yeah, i agree. i just remember thinking the Gathright signing indicated that Pie was probably part of the Peavy deal.

[UK1679666180]

I can't see Pie being traded for anything of value, maybe a team has too many Low-A 3B and need to get rid of one and have a spot for a AAA Cf'er. 500K or whatever the salary difference would be is nothing as far as payroll.

 

yeah, i agree. i just remember thinking the Gathright signing indicated that Pie was probably part of the Peavy deal.

 

 

They have too many CF'ers as it is.

[soapy]

I can't see Pie being traded for anything of value, maybe a team has too many Low-A 3B and need to get rid of one and have a spot for a AAA Cf'er. 500K or whatever the salary difference would be is nothing as far as payroll.

 

yeah, i agree. i just remember thinking the Gathright signing indicated that Pie was probably part of the Peavy deal.

 

 

They have too many CF'ers as it is.

 

i didn't say my thought process was well thought out.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

I don't get this line of thinking. If anybody can afford to develop guys at the back end of a roster it's a team that should be able to coast to a division title. Almost every single player essentially has to develop in the majors. A team like the Cubs, with very little quality in the minor leagues, is going to depend heavily on whatever they can get from the minors. Every year they are in a position to withstand established veterans having crappy years on the 25-man roster, why can't they deal with a kid who has some upside?

 

How is he going to develop at the ML level as the 25th man and how much upside does Pie have?

 

He'd be the 5th OF'er and well down Lou's bench depth chart and likely behind a platoon in CF with a manager who feels comfortable using the RH'ed part of that platoon against RH'ers.

 

Pie won't get many ABs with the Cubs, he's done everything he can at AAA, and his potential right now is that of a reserve CF'er, IMO.

 

I don't see him ever developing here at the ML level given the limited opportunities he's going to get and even if he did develop somewhat, his ceiling is likely limited to a reserve role given his flaws at the plate.

 

If there was more reward there, I would agree, but given the poss. marginal improvement of Gathright over Pie compared to poss. marginal improvement of where Pie is at now to a reserve OF'er, give me Gathright and the improvements now.

 

None of this defends your claim that they aren't in the position to allow kids to develop on their 25 man roster.

[jersey cubs fan]

500K or whatever the salary difference would be is nothing as far as payroll.

 

But it's 500k all over the place over several years. If you refuse to supply the back of your roster with cheap players from within your own system, you end up spending millions extra every season, because those guys you pay double for marginal short-term improvements have to be replaced and/or given a raise earlier and more often than the younger players that can do virtually the same thing.

[UK1679666180]

 

None of this defends your claim that they aren't in the position to allow kids to develop on their 25 man roster.

 

 

They can and should develop kids on their 25 man roster and I mentioned inferior kids, which Pie is and will likely be which is different than someone who has the ceiling and the likely possibly that they will be an everyday player like Soto was and hopefully Vitters and/or Colvin will be down the road.

[UK1679666180]

500K or whatever the salary difference would be is nothing as far as payroll.

 

But it's 500k all over the place over several years. If you refuse to supply the back of your roster with cheap players from within your own system, you end up spending millions extra every season, because those guys you pay double for marginal short-term improvements have to be replaced and/or given a raise earlier and more often than the younger players that can do virtually the same thing.

 

While this is a flaw under Hendry (espec. with someone like Miles compared to someone like Cedeno in a hopefully similar role) is separate IMO given that I think Gathright will be worth that 500K difference over Pie unlike the 2 mil or so Miles will be making over Cedeno.

[wastra]

Part of this is also likely being done for Pie's sake, not just the cubs.

 

I know we like to think of the roster as an inanimate object of stats and names, but the Cubs are an organization..a business like any other. As such, they have to think about how they treat players- you don't want to get a reputation of an organization that will stunt the development of young players beause it's good for the team. You'd never get young players to come to the team.

 

We're not likely to use pie this year, even if he made the roster. that means not only will we get nothign from him, but he won't get the at bats he needs to maybe- just maybe- develop into a serviceable baseball player. The risk here is very small, at this point, that he develops into anything more than a backup. So let him go find someplace that could use him. it's best for both parties to part ways at this juncture.

[jersey cubs fan]

Part of this is also likely being done for Pie's sake, not just the cubs.

 

I know we like to think of the roster as an inanimate object of stats and names, but the Cubs are an organization..a business like any other. As such, they have to think about how they treat players- you don't want to get a reputation of an organization that will stunt the development of young players1 beause it's good for the team. You'd never get young players to come to the team2.

 

We're not likely to use pie this year, even if he made the roster. that means not only will we get nothign from him, but he won't get the at bats he needs to maybe- just maybe- develop into a serviceable baseball player. The risk here is very small, at this point, that he develops into anything more than a backup. So let him go find someplace that could use him. it's best for both parties to part ways at this juncture.

 

1. They already have a questionable reputation for developing young players.

 

2. What choice do they have?

[Brett]

I can't see Pie being traded for anything of value, maybe a team has too many Low-A 3B and need to get rid of one and have a spot for a AAA Cf'er. 500K or whatever the salary difference would be is nothing as far as payroll.

 

yeah, i agree. i just remember thinking the Gathright signing indicated that Pie was probably part of the Peavy deal.

 

 

They have too many CF'ers as it is.

 

i didn't say my thought process was well thought out.

Well it's not as if every "CF'er" is hog-tied to center field.

[CUBZ99]

Not so much for Pie to be cut loose, but for the Cubs to be so willing to move away from a player they'd been touting since a phenomenal professional debut -- at 17 -- in 2002. This is so un-Cubs-like. They would hold onto overly hyped prospects -- think Corey Patterson -- until fans were ready to drive them to the airport.

 

Not anymore.

Give much of the credit to manager Lou Piniella, who doesn't have the patience to play that game. And give some credit to a new way of thinking among the Cubs' brain trust. This no longer is a team built around the star value of one or two players such as Sammy Sosa or Kerry Wood.

 

Chris De Luca doesn't have a clue.

[Illini Iceman]

I can't see Pie being traded for anything of value, maybe a team has too many Low-A 3B and need to get rid of one and have a spot for a AAA Cf'er. 500K or whatever the salary difference would be is nothing as far as payroll.

 

yeah, i agree. i just remember thinking the Gathright signing indicated that Pie was probably part of the Peavy deal.

 

 

They have too many CF'ers as it is.

 

I was thinking they should just trade Pie for Olson from Baltimore and keep Olson for themselves to compete for the 5th starter role if the Peavy trade never develops.

 

Then I looked at Olson's stats from last year. Yikes was he bad. Why in the world would the Padres have been interested in him? He isn't even very young.

[BigbadB]

I was thinking they should just trade Pie for Olson from Baltimore and keep Olson for themselves to compete for the 5th starter role if the Peavy trade never develops.

 

Then I looked at Olson's stats from last year. Yikes was he bad. Why in the world would the Padres have been interested in him? He isn't even very young.

 

If you look at his short career in the minor leagues, he definitely looks like a pretty good prospect. Very respectable WHIP, ERA, K/9, BB/K and HR.

 

If I had the choice of Randy Wolf or Olson, I'd take Olson.

[Ski]

http://www.andreasrecipes.com/photos/Key_lime_pie.jpg

[Derwood]

can you do a funny visual joke about Rocky Cherry now?

[Illini Iceman]

I was thinking they should just trade Pie for Olson from Baltimore and keep Olson for themselves to compete for the 5th starter role if the Peavy trade never develops.

 

Then I looked at Olson's stats from last year. Yikes was he bad. Why in the world would the Padres have been interested in him? He isn't even very young.

 

If you look at his short career in the minor leagues, he definitely looks like a pretty good prospect. Very respectable WHIP, ERA, K/9, BB/K and HR.

 

If I had the choice of Randy Wolf or Olson, I'd take Olson.

 

Well, I hope Hendry, the Padres and you have better insight about him than I do (which is not too hard since my effort was pretty much limited to googling his stats!) because it looks like he is ours.

[BigbadB]

I was thinking they should just trade Pie for Olson from Baltimore and keep Olson for themselves to compete for the 5th starter role if the Peavy trade never develops.

 

Then I looked at Olson's stats from last year. Yikes was he bad. Why in the world would the Padres have been interested in him? He isn't even very young.

 

If you look at his short career in the minor leagues, he definitely looks like a pretty good prospect. Very respectable WHIP, ERA, K/9, BB/K and HR.

 

If I had the choice of Randy Wolf or Olson, I'd take Olson.

 

Well, I hope Hendry, the Padres and you have better insight about him than I do (which is not too hard since my effort was pretty much limited to googling his stats!) because it looks like he is ours.

 

Ironically, he officially became a Cub not long after I made that post. Maybe Hendry values everything I say, as he should.

 

Hey Hendry, trade for Peavy now, okay?