Re: Caravan kickoff musings

[Bruce Miles]

Lots of fun stuff on the blog today from Harry Caray's:

 

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1241

[Derwood]

good stuff

[CUBZ99]

Lots of fun stuff on the blog today from Harry Caray's:

 

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1241

I hope that Hendry has a Peavy deal in his back pocket and is ready to move on it as soon as the Cubs get a new owner.

 

It was a good read, even as depressing as it was. I love the idea of having Marmol as the closer, but to have to compete with Kevin Gregg for the role? And unless Gregg puts together a career year, the Cubs are really going to miss Woody. Is Hendry worried about the depleted bullpen? Gregg, Cotts, & Gaudin doesn't exactly sound like a shut down bullpen in the late innings. And would a person be wrong to think that Rothschild's comments tend to be wishy washy because the Cubs actually prefer Shark in the late innings and don't want to necessarily frustrate Shark for wanting to start?

 

Finally, Hendry's comments on Pie are discouraging. Pie has done nothing but produce at every level in the minors. I'm not an entitlement type of person, but where was the harm in giving him an actual shot at improving at the big league level? The Cubs could have eased him into the CF role instead of making hasty decisions based on 10 or so starts. I will not be surprised if Pie is traded and then excels after getting an opportunity to adjust to the mlb.

[Bruce Miles]

Lots of fun stuff on the blog today from Harry Caray's:

 

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1241

I hope that Hendry has a Peavy deal in his back pocket and is ready to move on it as soon as the Cubs get a new owner.

 

It was a good read, even as depressing as it was. I love the idea of having Marmol as the closer, but to have to compete with Kevin Gregg for the role? And unless Gregg puts together a career year, the Cubs are really going to miss Woody. Is Hendry worried about the depleted bullpen? Gregg, Cotts, & Gaudin doesn't exactly sound like a shut down bullpen in the late innings. And would a person be wrong to think that Rothschild's comments tend to be wishy washy because the Cubs actually prefer Shark in the late innings and don't want to necessarily frustrate Shark for wanting to start?

 

Finally, Hendry's comments on Pie are discouraging. Pie has done nothing but produce at every level in the minors. I'm not an entitlement type of person, but where was the harm in giving him an actual shot at improving at the big league level? The Cubs could have eased him into the CF role instead of making hasty decisions based on 10 or so starts. I will not be surprised if Pie is traded and then excels after getting an opportunity to adjust to the mlb.

 

Good questions. I've always found Larry to be an honest guy, and he said what he said because he doesn't know whom the Cubs will have yet. If they get Peavy or another starter and Harden is healthy, Samardzija could open in the pen or at Iowa as a starter. The Cubs know Samardzija would like to start eventually, and maybe they'd like him to do so, too, but at this point, there's no real reason for them to make any proclamations.

[Bruce Miles]

They'e also posted my news story:

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=264437

[David]

I'm glad Gregg is getting a "chance" at the closer role. Now I just have to hope he's absolutely dominant or Marmol screws up in spring training somehow to turn them off from doing it.

 

I'd much rather have Marmol in the role he had last year.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

In what freaking planet is Joey Gathright a better option than Felix Pie? At least Pie has the potential to actually hit for some power at this level....so we are basically going to have to dump Pie for nothing to give Howry Gathright AB's? Are you freakin kidding me? If this organization didn't have the benefit of a 100+ million payroll they would be the worst team out there Gathrihgt over Pie? Come on now!

[The Voice of Reason]

Rats. I thoght Bruce wrote an article about the Mount Carmel Caravan.

[wvcbxl]

Good work there, Bruce.

 

Not sure what Hendry is expecting in return for Pie in a trade, but it can't be much.

Somehow, I fear he'll be exposed and someone will pick him up for free.

[soapy]

“Felix, obviously, has played very well defensively,” Hendry said. “He has not come around very well with the bat. It’s tough. We don’t have the luxury here to say, ‘Let’s run somebody out there for 140-50 games and see if they can hit.’ We’re here to win. We’re here to win a championship. When you get to the big leagues, it’s not about development much more. It’s about winning ballgames.”

 

This bothers me. The reason they don't have the luxury to run Pie out there to see if he can hit is because they blew it last year. They had that luxury for the first half of 2008 when the rest of the offense of rolling. They had a great oppurtunity to keep running Felix out there to see if he'd adjust and they didn't do it.

 

On top of that, Hendry's statement hear still doesn't explain why Gathright is considered a better option than Pie as a backup. Once you factor in cost, age, and potential it's a no-brainer Pie is the better option. The only possible explination is that Hendry thinks he can get something of value by trading Pie, which I doubt.

[abuck1220]

i'm not huge on pie by any means, but hendry's handling of him reminds why i think hendry sucks.

[soapy]

i'm not huge on pie by any means, but hendry's handling of him reminds why i think hendry sucks.

 

yeah, you don't have to be a Pie fan-boy by any means to see how this has been mishandled. it's exactly why Hendry needs a huge payroll to be successful.

[jersey cubs fan]

Hey Jim, maybe the reason people are mixed on the Marquis trade is because you dealt him for a crap reliever who costs a hell of a lot of money.

[CUBZ99]

Hey Jim, maybe the reason people are mixed on the Marquis trade is because you dealt him for a crap reliever who costs a hell of a lot of money.

 

Unless Hendry has Peavy in his back pocket and is just waiting for the announcement of a new owner, his comments on Marquis make absolutely no sense at all. If Hendry has a trade ready for Peavy, all of these perceived dumb moves (picking up Gaithright, trading Derosa, looking to sign Aurillia, trading Marquis, looking to get rid of Pie and Cedeno..) start to at least explainable. But to trade Marquis for a subpar reliever and then to say that it is going to be hard to replace Marquis and that your still looking for a 5th starter? Something isn't adding up.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Hey Jim, maybe the reason people are mixed on the Marquis trade is because you dealt him for a crap reliever who costs a hell of a lot of money.

 

Unless Hendry has Peavy in his back pocket and is just waiting for the announcement of a new owner, his comments on Marquis make absolutely no sense at all. If Hendry has a trade ready for Peavy, all of these perceived dumb moves (picking up Gaithright, trading Derosa, looking to sign Aurillia, trading Marquis, looking to get rid of Pie and Cedeno..) start to at least explainable. But to trade Marquis for a subpar reliever and then to say that it is going to be hard to replace Marquis and that your still looking for a 5th starter? Something isn't adding up.

 

An alternative explanation would be that he is strapped for cash and really wanted Miles.

[jersey cubs fan]

Hey Jim, maybe the reason people are mixed on the Marquis trade is because you dealt him for a crap reliever who costs a hell of a lot of money.

 

Unless Hendry has Peavy in his back pocket and is just waiting for the announcement of a new owner, his comments on Marquis make absolutely no sense at all. If Hendry has a trade ready for Peavy, all of these perceived dumb moves (picking up Gaithright, trading Derosa, looking to sign Aurillia, trading Marquis, looking to get rid of Pie and Cedeno..) start to at least explainable. But to trade Marquis for a subpar reliever and then to say that it is going to be hard to replace Marquis and that your still looking for a 5th starter? Something isn't adding up.

 

An alternative explanation would be that he is strapped for cash and really wanted Miles.

 

Which would be just as perplexing.

[CUBZ99]

Hey Jim, maybe the reason people are mixed on the Marquis trade is because you dealt him for a crap reliever who costs a hell of a lot of money.

 

Unless Hendry has Peavy in his back pocket and is just waiting for the announcement of a new owner, his comments on Marquis make absolutely no sense at all. If Hendry has a trade ready for Peavy, all of these perceived dumb moves (picking up Gaithright, trading Derosa, looking to sign Aurillia, trading Marquis, looking to get rid of Pie and Cedeno..) start to at least explainable. But to trade Marquis for a subpar reliever and then to say that it is going to be hard to replace Marquis and that your still looking for a 5th starter? Something isn't adding up.

 

An alternative explanation would be that he is strapped for cash and really wanted Miles.

 

Which would be just as perplexing.

 

Yeah, I don't buy that. Hendry has made some questionable moves, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Okay, change that to "really wanted Bradley."

[CubinNY]

]Hendry saw some humor in how people perceived the recent trade of Jason Marquis to the Rockies.

 

“He was a very maligned player for a couple of years,” Hendry said. “Now, as soon as he’s gone, it’s, ‘How are we going to replace the durable Jason Marquis?’ Jason did a solid job. That’s what he’s done his whole career. I’ve always wondered why his reputation wasn’t better. Over five years, he won 65 ballgames and usually would give you 190 innings.”

 

Hendry doesn't get it. The problem wasn't Marquis, it was Marquis contract. He was a very good 4th or 5th starter but he was payed like #1 or #2.

[CubColtPacer]

]Hendry saw some humor in how people perceived the recent trade of Jason Marquis to the Rockies.

 

“He was a very maligned player for a couple of years,” Hendry said. “Now, as soon as he’s gone, it’s, ‘How are we going to replace the durable Jason Marquis?’ Jason did a solid job. That’s what he’s done his whole career. I’ve always wondered why his reputation wasn’t better. Over five years, he won 65 ballgames and usually would give you 190 innings.”

 

Hendry doesn't get it. The problem wasn't Marquis, it was Marquis contract. He was a very good 4th or 5th starter but he was payed like #1 or #2.

 

Sabathia 7 years, 161 million

Burnett 5 years, 82.5 million

Lowe 4 years, 60 million

Dempster 4 years, 52 million

Moyer 2 years, 13 million

Silva 4 years, 48 million

Eaton 3 years, 24.5 million

Hernandez (Orlando) 2 years, 12 million

Igawa 5 years, 46 million (including posting fee)

Lilly 4 years, 40 million

Marquis 3 years, 21 million

Matsuzaka 6 years, 103 million (including posting fee)

Meche 5 years, 55 million

Mulder 2 years, 13 million

Mussina 2 years, 23 million

Padilla 3 years, 33.75 million

Schmidt 3 years, 47.5 million

Suppan 4 years, 42 million

Williams (Woody) 2 years 12 million

Zito 7 years, 126 million

 

There is every multi-year starting pitching deal given in the past 3 years. Every player who was considered a possible #1 or #2 at the time he was signed (Sabathia, Burnett, Matzuzaka, Schmidt, Zito, and possibly Lilly) got a contract that was much different from the one of Marquis.

 

Just think about that. The best comparable contracts to the ones of Marquis on the market today? Jamie Moyer, Adam Eaton, Mark Mulder, and Woody Williams. Is Marquis worse than that group? Absolutely not.

 

Does spending money on average starting pitchers not make sense instead of dipping into the minor leagues? That argument has some merit as starting pitching gets a premium on the free agent market and the money might be able to be better spent in other areas. But as far as value on the market, Marquis was not overpaid. In fact, of the 20 contracts listed above, the one for Marquis will probably be ranked 6th or 7th when all is said and done for effectiveness.

[CubinNY]

]Hendry saw some humor in how people perceived the recent trade of Jason Marquis to the Rockies.

 

“He was a very maligned player for a couple of years,” Hendry said. “Now, as soon as he’s gone, it’s, ‘How are we going to replace the durable Jason Marquis?’ Jason did a solid job. That’s what he’s done his whole career. I’ve always wondered why his reputation wasn’t better. Over five years, he won 65 ballgames and usually would give you 190 innings.”

 

Hendry doesn't get it. The problem wasn't Marquis, it was Marquis contract. He was a very good 4th or 5th starter but he was payed like #1 or #2.

 

Sabathia 7 years, 161 million

Burnett 5 years, 82.5 million

Lowe 4 years, 60 million

Dempster 4 years, 52 million

Moyer 2 years, 13 million

Silva 4 years, 48 million

Eaton 3 years, 24.5 million

Hernandez (Orlando) 2 years, 12 million

Igawa 5 years, 46 million (including posting fee)

Lilly 4 years, 40 million

Marquis 3 years, 21 million

Matsuzaka 6 years, 103 million (including posting fee)

Meche 5 years, 55 million

Mulder 2 years, 13 million

Mussina 2 years, 23 million

Padilla 3 years, 33.75 million

Schmidt 3 years, 47.5 million

Suppan 4 years, 42 million

Williams (Woody) 2 years 12 million

Zito 7 years, 126 million

 

There is every multi-year starting pitching deal given in the past 3 years. Every player who was considered a possible #1 or #2 at the time he was signed (Sabathia, Burnett, Matzuzaka, Schmidt, Zito, and possibly Lilly) got a contract that was much different from the one of Marquis.

 

Just think about that. The best comparable contracts to the ones of Marquis on the market today? Jamie Moyer, Adam Eaton, Mark Mulder, and Woody Williams. Is Marquis worse than that group? Absolutely not.

 

Does spending money on average starting pitchers not make sense instead of dipping into the minor leagues? That argument has some merit as starting pitching gets a premium on the free agent market and the money might be able to be better spent in other areas. But as far as value on the market, Marquis was not overpaid. In fact, of the 20 contracts listed above, the one for Marquis will probably be ranked 6th or 7th when all is said and done for effectiveness.

At the time of the contract Marquis was severely overpaid. He's still overpaid (he'll make over 10 Million dollars) and now the Cubs will be paying him to pitch for someone else.

[CubColtPacer]

]Hendry saw some humor in how people perceived the recent trade of Jason Marquis to the Rockies.

 

“He was a very maligned player for a couple of years,” Hendry said. “Now, as soon as he’s gone, it’s, ‘How are we going to replace the durable Jason Marquis?’ Jason did a solid job. That’s what he’s done his whole career. I’ve always wondered why his reputation wasn’t better. Over five years, he won 65 ballgames and usually would give you 190 innings.”

 

Hendry doesn't get it. The problem wasn't Marquis, it was Marquis contract. He was a very good 4th or 5th starter but he was payed like #1 or #2.

 

Sabathia 7 years, 161 million

Burnett 5 years, 82.5 million

Lowe 4 years, 60 million

Dempster 4 years, 52 million

Moyer 2 years, 13 million

Silva 4 years, 48 million

Eaton 3 years, 24.5 million

Hernandez (Orlando) 2 years, 12 million

Igawa 5 years, 46 million (including posting fee)

Lilly 4 years, 40 million

Marquis 3 years, 21 million

Matsuzaka 6 years, 103 million (including posting fee)

Meche 5 years, 55 million

Mulder 2 years, 13 million

Mussina 2 years, 23 million

Padilla 3 years, 33.75 million

Schmidt 3 years, 47.5 million

Suppan 4 years, 42 million

Williams (Woody) 2 years 12 million

Zito 7 years, 126 million

 

There is every multi-year starting pitching deal given in the past 3 years. Every player who was considered a possible #1 or #2 at the time he was signed (Sabathia, Burnett, Matzuzaka, Schmidt, Zito, and possibly Lilly) got a contract that was much different from the one of Marquis.

 

Just think about that. The best comparable contracts to the ones of Marquis on the market today? Jamie Moyer, Adam Eaton, Mark Mulder, and Woody Williams. Is Marquis worse than that group? Absolutely not.

 

Does spending money on average starting pitchers not make sense instead of dipping into the minor leagues? That argument has some merit as starting pitching gets a premium on the free agent market and the money might be able to be better spent in other areas. But as far as value on the market, Marquis was not overpaid. In fact, of the 20 contracts listed above, the one for Marquis will probably be ranked 6th or 7th when all is said and done for effectiveness.

At the time of the contract Marquis was severely overpaid. He's still overpaid and now the Cubs will be paying him to pitch for someone else.

 

How exactly was he severely overpaid at the time of the contract? It's easy to say, but when you look at the other contracts that were signed that same year the argument seems to fall apart.

 

The biggest reason that the Cubs are paying him to pitch for someone else is because they backloaded the contract. They got a bargain in 07 and they had to pay that difference this year.

[jersey cubs fan]

At the time of the contract Marquis was severely overpaid. He's still overpaid and now the Cubs will be paying him to pitch for someone else.

 

The bigger problem is they are paying a mediocre reliever to pitch for them to get rid of Marquis. Hendry acts as though fan ridicule forced him to trade Marquis. If he didn't think that was a bad contract, he'd have kept Marquis instead of acquiring Vizcaino.

[Brett]

]Hendry saw some humor in how people perceived the recent trade of Jason Marquis to the Rockies.

 

“He was a very maligned player for a couple of years,” Hendry said. “Now, as soon as he’s gone, it’s, ‘How are we going to replace the durable Jason Marquis?’ Jason did a solid job. That’s what he’s done his whole career. I’ve always wondered why his reputation wasn’t better. Over five years, he won 65 ballgames and usually would give you 190 innings.”

 

Hendry doesn't get it. The problem wasn't Marquis, it was Marquis contract. He was a very good 4th or 5th starter but he was payed like #1 or #2.

 

Sabathia 7 years, 161 million

Burnett 5 years, 82.5 million

Lowe 4 years, 60 million

Dempster 4 years, 52 million

Moyer 2 years, 13 million

Silva 4 years, 48 million

Eaton 3 years, 24.5 million

Hernandez (Orlando) 2 years, 12 million

Igawa 5 years, 46 million (including posting fee)

Lilly 4 years, 40 million

Marquis 3 years, 21 million

Matsuzaka 6 years, 103 million (including posting fee)

Meche 5 years, 55 million

Mulder 2 years, 13 million

Mussina 2 years, 23 million

Padilla 3 years, 33.75 million

Schmidt 3 years, 47.5 million

Suppan 4 years, 42 million

Williams (Woody) 2 years 12 million

Zito 7 years, 126 million

 

There is every multi-year starting pitching deal given in the past 3 years. Every player who was considered a possible #1 or #2 at the time he was signed (Sabathia, Burnett, Matzuzaka, Schmidt, Zito, and possibly Lilly) got a contract that was much different from the one of Marquis.

 

Just think about that. The best comparable contracts to the ones of Marquis on the market today? Jamie Moyer, Adam Eaton, Mark Mulder, and Woody Williams. Is Marquis worse than that group? Absolutely not.

 

Does spending money on average starting pitchers not make sense instead of dipping into the minor leagues? That argument has some merit as starting pitching gets a premium on the free agent market and the money might be able to be better spent in other areas. But as far as value on the market, Marquis was not overpaid. In fact, of the 20 contracts listed above, the one for Marquis will probably be ranked 6th or 7th when all is said and done for effectiveness.

At the time of the contract Marquis was severely overpaid. He's still overpaid and now the Cubs will be paying him to pitch for someone else.

 

How exactly was he severely overpaid at the time of the contract? It's easy to say, but when you look at the other contracts that were signed that same year the argument seems to fall apart.

 

The biggest reason that the Cubs are paying him to pitch for someone else is because they backloaded the contract. They got a bargain in 07 and they had to pay that difference this year.

 

Exactly. That list is a bit misleading because 3/21 sounds quite a bit different than 1/10.

 

And the Cubs aren't paying him but what, $800k to pitch for someone else? They just have to pay Luis Vizcaino a little bit more than he deserves.

[cubsfan26]

]Hendry saw some humor in how people perceived the recent trade of Jason Marquis to the Rockies.

 

“He was a very maligned player for a couple of years,” Hendry said. “Now, as soon as he’s gone, it’s, ‘How are we going to replace the durable Jason Marquis?’ Jason did a solid job. That’s what he’s done his whole career. I’ve always wondered why his reputation wasn’t better. Over five years, he won 65 ballgames and usually would give you 190 innings.”

 

Hendry doesn't get it. The problem wasn't Marquis, it was Marquis contract. He was a very good 4th or 5th starter but he was payed like #1 or #2.

 

Sabathia 7 years, 161 million

Burnett 5 years, 82.5 million

Lowe 4 years, 60 million

Dempster 4 years, 52 million

Moyer 2 years, 13 million

Silva 4 years, 48 million

Eaton 3 years, 24.5 million

Hernandez (Orlando) 2 years, 12 million

Igawa 5 years, 46 million (including posting fee)

Lilly 4 years, 40 million

Marquis 3 years, 21 million

Matsuzaka 6 years, 103 million (including posting fee)

Meche 5 years, 55 million

Mulder 2 years, 13 million

Mussina 2 years, 23 million

Padilla 3 years, 33.75 million

Schmidt 3 years, 47.5 million

Suppan 4 years, 42 million

Williams (Woody) 2 years 12 million

Zito 7 years, 126 million

 

There is every multi-year starting pitching deal given in the past 3 years. Every player who was considered a possible #1 or #2 at the time he was signed (Sabathia, Burnett, Matzuzaka, Schmidt, Zito, and possibly Lilly) got a contract that was much different from the one of Marquis.

 

Just think about that. The best comparable contracts to the ones of Marquis on the market today? Jamie Moyer, Adam Eaton, Mark Mulder, and Woody Williams. Is Marquis worse than that group? Absolutely not.

 

Does spending money on average starting pitchers not make sense instead of dipping into the minor leagues? That argument has some merit as starting pitching gets a premium on the free agent market and the money might be able to be better spent in other areas. But as far as value on the market, Marquis was not overpaid. In fact, of the 20 contracts listed above, the one for Marquis will probably be ranked 6th or 7th when all is said and done for effectiveness.

 

 

Great post, and that just tells me once again that Cubs fans just complain to complain. Sometimes fans just need sit back and see how some of these moves work out. Instead of calling Hendry names, and saying how much he sucks at his job and other crap. I'm all for people giving their opinions, but I think sometimes fans overreact a bit, and don't realize their opinions are wrong an awful lot. Hendry has made alot of moves over the last few seasons that many fans were wrong about, who says they won't be again next year.

Edited January 17, 2009 by cubsfan26