Re: Caravan kickoff musings

[cubsfan26]

Exactly. That list is a bit misleading because 3/21 sounds quite a bit different than 1/10.

 

And the Cubs aren't paying him but what, $800k to pitch for someone else? They just have to pay Luis Vizcaino a little bit more than he deserves.

 

 

Yeah the way I look at it, the Cubs got a bargin on Marquis in 07+08 and only paid him 11m over those two years, when we should have paid him 14m. So next year, we're paying Vizcaino 1.5m next year, since the 800,000 we sent to the Rockies and other 2m was salary we owed Marquis from 07-08 anyways. So if Vizcaino rebounds and helps us out in the pen this year it's a good trade. If he sucks like last year he will be buried in the pen or we will get rid of him. But I still wouldn't be surprised at all if Hendry ends up trading him before opening day and finds away to save 1.5-2m of his salary. Still two years of Marquis(23-18 with a 4.43 era in 61 starts) and a year of Vizcaino for 16m isn't a bad contract at all IMO.

[davearm2]

]Hendry saw some humor in how people perceived the recent trade of Jason Marquis to the Rockies.

 

“He was a very maligned player for a couple of years,” Hendry said. “Now, as soon as he’s gone, it’s, ‘How are we going to replace the durable Jason Marquis?’ Jason did a solid job. That’s what he’s done his whole career. I’ve always wondered why his reputation wasn’t better. Over five years, he won 65 ballgames and usually would give you 190 innings.”

 

Hendry doesn't get it. The problem wasn't Marquis, it was Marquis contract. He was a very good 4th or 5th starter but he was payed like #1 or #2.

 

Sabathia 7 years, 161 million

Burnett 5 years, 82.5 million

Lowe 4 years, 60 million

Dempster 4 years, 52 million

Moyer 2 years, 13 million

Silva 4 years, 48 million

Eaton 3 years, 24.5 million

Hernandez (Orlando) 2 years, 12 million

Igawa 5 years, 46 million (including posting fee)

Lilly 4 years, 40 million

Marquis 3 years, 21 million

Matsuzaka 6 years, 103 million (including posting fee)

Meche 5 years, 55 million

Mulder 2 years, 13 million

Mussina 2 years, 23 million

Padilla 3 years, 33.75 million

Schmidt 3 years, 47.5 million

Suppan 4 years, 42 million

Williams (Woody) 2 years 12 million

Zito 7 years, 126 million

 

There is every multi-year starting pitching deal given in the past 3 years. Every player who was considered a possible #1 or #2 at the time he was signed (Sabathia, Burnett, Matzuzaka, Schmidt, Zito, and possibly Lilly) got a contract that was much different from the one of Marquis.

 

Just think about that. The best comparable contracts to the ones of Marquis on the market today? Jamie Moyer, Adam Eaton, Mark Mulder, and Woody Williams. Is Marquis worse than that group? Absolutely not.

 

Does spending money on average starting pitchers not make sense instead of dipping into the minor leagues? That argument has some merit as starting pitching gets a premium on the free agent market and the money might be able to be better spent in other areas. But as far as value on the market, Marquis was not overpaid. In fact, of the 20 contracts listed above, the one for Marquis will probably be ranked 6th or 7th when all is said and done for effectiveness.

 

 

Great post, and that just tells me once again that Cubs fans just complain to complain. Sometimes fans just need sit back and see how some of these moves work out. Instead of calling Hendry names, and saying how much he sucks at his job and other crap. I'm all for people giving their opinions, but I think sometimes fans overreact a bit, and don't realize their opinions are wrong an awful lot. Hendry has made alot of moves over the last few seasons that many fans were wrong about, who says they won't be again next year.

Looks to me like the fans of a lot of teams must be equally as convinced that their GM is an absolute maroon as so many Cub fans are.

 

Heck Hendry said it himself a few years ago that nobody wants to be in the position of needing to find pitching on the FA market. But take a look at the cast of misfits that the Cubs trotted out in 2006 for 6 starts here and 10 starts there, and suddenly the urgency of the situation hits like a January blast of wind off of the lake.

[third eye]

The Marquis overpaying has been discussed ad nauseum here, but what people seem to ignore is the context. The Cardinals got 2 years of league average pitching (+) with right around 200 IP from him out of the three years he was there. Contrast this with the nightmare of relying on minor league depth to fill the injury time of Prior/Wood in 2006. I can see why overpaying, especially on a backloaded contract might have been attractive. More so when considering the fact that he expected #2 level pitching from Hill to offset the cost. Between Lilly, Hill and Marquis collectively, the resources wouldn't have been horribly spent for the middle of the rotation. Durability was the key in Hendry's mind at the time. I'm not saying it justifies the contract, but it does become more understandable as a priority given the level of contribution from the "depth" coming from the system in eating innings. Where he likely failed was in overbidding other teams at the time. Would we have been better off with Schmidt (a popular choice at the time) or Zito for way more? I just dont think evaluating the decision absent context is useful here.

[NCCubFan]

The Marquis overpaying has been discussed ad nauseum here, but what people seem to ignore is the context. The Cardinals got 2 years of league average pitching (+) with right around 200 IP from him out of the three years he was there.

In other words, he was what we THOUGHT he was! AND WE LET HIM GET AWAY! [/Dennis Green]

[Vanilla Ice]

“Felix, obviously, has played very well defensively,” Hendry said. “He has not come around very well with the bat. It’s tough. We don’t have the luxury here to say, ‘Let’s run somebody out there for 140-50 games and see if they can hit.’ We’re here to win. We’re here to win a championship. When you get to the big leagues, it’s not about development much more. It’s about winning ballgames.”

 

This bothers me. The reason they don't have the luxury to run Pie out there to see if he can hit is because they blew it last year. They had that luxury for the first half of 2008 when the rest of the offense of rolling. They had a great oppurtunity to keep running Felix out there to see if he'd adjust and they didn't do it.

 

On top of that, Hendry's statement hear still doesn't explain why Gathright is considered a better option than Pie as a backup. Once you factor in cost, age, and potential it's a no-brainer Pie is the better option. The only possible explination is that Hendry thinks he can get something of value by trading Pie, which I doubt.

Another way to look at it is that Pie and Gathright might give similar production this year. Trading Pie gives us Gathright + Olson instead of Pie. Even if Pie makes a step foward this year, Gathright + Olson probably is more valuable to us.

[BigbadB]

It will be interesting to see how Marquis pitches in his contract year.

 

If we get Peavy, it's a moot point. If we don't get Peavy, then I am curious on whether he outperforms whoever takes his spot in the rotation.