2009 Chicago Bears offseason

[Guest]

Guys is it football season yet

 

Yes. You missed the opener yesterday. It was awesome.

 

Man, that game-winning 80 yard touchdown pass from Cutler to Plaxico was a thing of beauty. Who knew Jay Cutler could throw that far lefthanded too?

[Banedon]

The thing about Chicago though, if the Bears don't win the fans will blame it on Cutler whether it is justified or not.

 

If Cutler doesn't win in Chicago, he will be booed out of town, and it will be considered a massive bust acquisition -- regardless of the real reasons.

 

I disagree. I think if Cutler is putting a ton of points on the board, but the Bears still lose maybe cuz the defense got old, or Forte suddenly develops butter fingers, or whatever...I think Chicago fans will be ok with Cutler. I mean...how long did we deal with guys like Rex, Mcnown, Krenzel, Matthews, Mirer...the litany of bad/below average QB's is well documented. Even if we lose, I think a lot of Bears fans will be happy to lose in a more entertaining fashion.

 

That's not to say we shouldn't expect/demand winning football. Just that I don't think it will necessarily all be in Cutlers lap at the first sign of trouble.

[jersey cubs fan]

The thing about Chicago though, if the Bears don't win the fans will blame it on Cutler whether it is justified or not.

 

If Cutler doesn't win in Chicago, he will be booed out of town, and it will be considered a massive bust acquisition -- regardless of the real reasons.

 

That's the downside of being a quarterback. Right or wrong, the QB gets all the credit when things go well (think Trent Dilfer on the 2000 Ravens) or all the blame when things don't go well.

 

Trent Dilfer did not get all the credit when things went well in Baltimore, in fact, he barely got any.

 

I think Romo is a good example here, he gets fellated by the media when Dallas wins, and when they lose, he gets criticized up the wazzoo.

 

On the other hand, somebody like Vinny Testeverde, who was okay as a Jet, but nothing special, is beloved there. Then, Chad Pennington was absolutely worshipped up until he started winning 10 games a year, then everybody nitpicked his shortcomings and eventually hated his guts. Very weird. I think fan bases, including the Bears, take circumstances into account with how they treat the QB. Rex Grossman won a lot in Chicago, but he was dismissed by most fans because he played far too poorly, far too often, even in wins. Kyle Orton was accepted, because he was pretty simple and less error prone. There wasn't much passion in either way with him, people who did not like him didn't hate him like they hated Grossman, and people who liked him didn't like them as much as those who likely Grossman.

 

Cutler will be fine in Chicago as long as he plays well personally. There will be fans that will complain no matter what. There will be those who will want him dead if he fails to win a SB. But Cutler is probably going to play fairly well. If the team fails it will be because the defense failed to slow the decline and the WR were non existent. He won't get unfairly blamed for losses, unless he himself plays poorly.

[Magnetic Curses]

The thing about Chicago though, if the Bears don't win the fans will blame it on Cutler whether it is justified or not.

 

If Cutler doesn't win in Chicago, he will be booed out of town, and it will be considered a massive bust acquisition -- regardless of the real reasons.

 

That's the downside of being a quarterback. Right or wrong, the QB gets all the credit when things go well (think Trent Dilfer on the 2000 Ravens) or all the blame when things don't go well.

 

Trent Dilfer did not get all the credit when things went well in Baltimore, in fact, he barely got any.

 

I think Romo is a good example here, he gets fellated by the media when Dallas wins, and when they lose, he gets criticized up the wazzoo.

 

On the other hand, somebody like Vinny Testeverde, who was okay as a Jet, but nothing special, is beloved there. Then, Chad Pennington was absolutely worshipped up until he started winning 10 games a year, then everybody nitpicked his shortcomings and eventually hated his guts. Very weird. I think fan bases, including the Bears, take circumstances into account with how they treat the QB. Rex Grossman won a lot in Chicago, but he was dismissed by most fans because he played far too poorly, far too often, even in wins. Kyle Orton was accepted, because he was pretty simple and less error prone. There wasn't much passion in either way with him, people who did not like him didn't hate him like they hated Grossman, and people who liked him didn't like them as much as those who likely Grossman.

 

i have to disagree with you there. there was definitely a well-defined and understood Cult of Orton that was gaining a nice head of steam before the trade. orton may have not been as liked as grossman was hated, but he definitely had a larger following.

[Soul]

The thing about Chicago though, if the Bears don't win the fans will blame it on Cutler whether it is justified or not.

 

If Cutler doesn't win in Chicago, he will be booed out of town, and it will be considered a massive bust acquisition -- regardless of the real reasons.

 

That's the downside of being a quarterback. Right or wrong, the QB gets all the credit when things go well (think Trent Dilfer on the 2000 Ravens) or all the blame when things don't go well.

 

Trent Dilfer did not get all the credit when things went well in Baltimore, in fact, he barely got any.

 

I think Romo is a good example here, he gets fellated by the media when Dallas wins, and when they lose, he gets criticized up the wazzoo.

 

On the other hand, somebody like Vinny Testeverde, who was okay as a Jet, but nothing special, is beloved there. Then, Chad Pennington was absolutely worshipped up until he started winning 10 games a year, then everybody nitpicked his shortcomings and eventually hated his guts. Very weird. I think fan bases, including the Bears, take circumstances into account with how they treat the QB. Rex Grossman won a lot in Chicago, but he was dismissed by most fans because he played far too poorly, far too often, even in wins. Kyle Orton was accepted, because he was pretty simple and less error prone. There wasn't much passion in either way with him, people who did not like him didn't hate him like they hated Grossman, and people who liked him didn't like them as much as those who likely Grossman.

 

Cutler will be fine in Chicago as long as he plays well personally. There will be fans that will complain no matter what. There will be those who will want him dead if he fails to win a SB. But Cutler is probably going to play fairly well. If the team fails it will be because the defense failed to slow the decline and the WR were non existent. He won't get unfairly blamed for losses, unless he himself plays poorly.

 

I think you're giving the rabble of Bear fans too much credit. Most of them don't apply the logic that you do.

[dew1679666265]

The thing about Chicago though, if the Bears don't win the fans will blame it on Cutler whether it is justified or not.

 

If Cutler doesn't win in Chicago, he will be booed out of town, and it will be considered a massive bust acquisition -- regardless of the real reasons.

 

That's the downside of being a quarterback. Right or wrong, the QB gets all the credit when things go well (think Trent Dilfer on the 2000 Ravens) or all the blame when things don't go well.

 

Trent Dilfer did not get all the credit when things went well in Baltimore, in fact, he barely got any.

 

I think Romo is a good example here, he gets fellated by the media when Dallas wins, and when they lose, he gets criticized up the wazzoo.

 

On the other hand, somebody like Vinny Testeverde, who was okay as a Jet, but nothing special, is beloved there. Then, Chad Pennington was absolutely worshipped up until he started winning 10 games a year, then everybody nitpicked his shortcomings and eventually hated his guts. Very weird. I think fan bases, including the Bears, take circumstances into account with how they treat the QB. Rex Grossman won a lot in Chicago, but he was dismissed by most fans because he played far too poorly, far too often, even in wins. Kyle Orton was accepted, because he was pretty simple and less error prone. There wasn't much passion in either way with him, people who did not like him didn't hate him like they hated Grossman, and people who liked him didn't like them as much as those who likely Grossman.

 

Cutler will be fine in Chicago as long as he plays well personally. There will be fans that will complain no matter what. There will be those who will want him dead if he fails to win a SB. But Cutler is probably going to play fairly well. If the team fails it will be because the defense failed to slow the decline and the WR were non existent. He won't get unfairly blamed for losses, unless he himself plays poorly.

 

During the 2000 season Dilfer was getting quite a bit of love, it seemed. Even now, the "game manager" QB type is attributed to him and people talk about it like it's something for a quarterback to strive toward.

 

I agree with Testaverde and Romo, though. Those two are definitely better examples than Dilfer.

 

If Cutler puts up very good numbers in Chicago, I think he'll be judged a bit less harshly by many fans, but the "he can't win" tags and the like will be placed on him, much like they were on Peyton until he finally won a Super Bowl.

[Soul]

Maybe the fans will just blame Turner & Lovie.

 

'Cuz let's face it. The Cutler trade is the equivalent of an 80 MPH meatball right down the middle of the plate. If you can't hit a home run with this laid right in your lap? Time to find a new job.

[Banedon]

I think you're giving the rabble of Bear fans too much credit. Most of them don't apply the logic that you do.

 

I don't think you're giving the "we got a real QB" factor enough weight.

[Soul]

I think you're giving the rabble of Bear fans too much credit. Most of them don't apply the logic that you do.

 

I don't think you're giving the "we got a real QB" factor enough weight.

 

I'm OK with being wrong sometimes.

[jersey cubs fan]

That's the downside of being a quarterback. Right or wrong, the QB gets all the credit when things go well (think Trent Dilfer on the 2000 Ravens) or all the blame when things don't go well.

 

Trent Dilfer did not get all the credit when things went well in Baltimore, in fact, he barely got any.

 

I think Romo is a good example here, he gets fellated by the media when Dallas wins, and when they lose, he gets criticized up the wazzoo.

 

During the 2000 season Dilfer was getting quite a bit of love, it seemed. Even now, the "game manager" QB type is attributed to him and people talk about it like it's something for a quarterback to strive toward.

 

I agree with Testaverde and Romo, though. Those two are definitely better examples than Dilfer.

 

If Cutler puts up very good numbers in Chicago, I think he'll be judged a bit less harshly by many fans, but the "he can't win" tags and the like will be placed on him, much like they were on Peyton until he finally won a Super Bowl.

 

Dilfer was credited with being a game manager and that is all. He did not receive "all the credit". Nobody gives him "all the credit". He is barely given any credit at all. Everybody gives the credit, rightfully, to the defense. The whole concept of the game manager is that you are taking the power out of the QB to win or lose, and nobody talks about striving toward being Trent Dilfer. People only use him as an example of how it is possible to win with a QB who doesn't do much of anything.

[Soul]

That's the downside of being a quarterback. Right or wrong, the QB gets all the credit when things go well (think Trent Dilfer on the 2000 Ravens) or all the blame when things don't go well.

 

Trent Dilfer did not get all the credit when things went well in Baltimore, in fact, he barely got any.

 

I think Romo is a good example here, he gets fellated by the media when Dallas wins, and when they lose, he gets criticized up the wazzoo.

 

During the 2000 season Dilfer was getting quite a bit of love, it seemed. Even now, the "game manager" QB type is attributed to him and people talk about it like it's something for a quarterback to strive toward.

 

I agree with Testaverde and Romo, though. Those two are definitely better examples than Dilfer.

 

If Cutler puts up very good numbers in Chicago, I think he'll be judged a bit less harshly by many fans, but the "he can't win" tags and the like will be placed on him, much like they were on Peyton until he finally won a Super Bowl.

 

Dilfer was credited with being a game manager and that is all. He did not receive "all the credit". Nobody gives him "all the credit". He is barely given any credit at all. Everybody gives the credit, rightfully, to the defense. The whole concept of the game manager is that you are taking the power out of the QB to win or lose, and nobody talks about striving toward being Trent Dilfer. People only use him as an example of how it is possible to win with a QB who doesn't do much of anything.

 

That's true. I just think the Bears' fan base is among the more irrational when it comes to QBs. Which makes sense, given the history. None of us have ever seen a top QB in town, up close and following him every week -- to know what that looks & feels like. We've only seen it from afar.

[Banedon]

I think you're giving the rabble of Bear fans too much credit. Most of them don't apply the logic that you do.

 

I don't think you're giving the "we got a real QB" factor enough weight.

 

I'm OK with being wrong sometimes.

 

I'm OK with you being wrong sometimes too....hey-o! :)

[dew1679666265]

Dilfer was credited with being a game manager and that is all. He did not receive "all the credit". Nobody gives him "all the credit". He is barely given any credit at all. Everybody gives the credit, rightfully, to the defense. The whole concept of the game manager is that you are taking the power out of the QB to win or lose, and nobody talks about striving toward being Trent Dilfer. People only use him as an example of how it is possible to win with a QB who doesn't do much of anything.

 

Eh, maybe I'm exaggerating the hype he gets. "All the credit" is definitely more than he gets, I just think he gets far more credit on that team than he probably should, given how it truly was 100% defense that won it for them.

 

People do tend to speak glowingly of game managers (a little like gritty players in baseball) and he's kind of the poster boy it would seem.

 

Or maybe I'm just still a bit bitter that Dilfer's Ravens knocked a very good Titan team out of a potential SB bid in 2000. :D

[Soul]

I think you're giving the rabble of Bear fans too much credit. Most of them don't apply the logic that you do.

 

I don't think you're giving the "we got a real QB" factor enough weight.

 

I'm OK with being wrong sometimes.

 

I'm OK with you being wrong sometimes too....hey-o! :)

 

Talk about 80 MPH meatballs right down the middle of the plate 8-)

[jersey cubs fan]

That's true. I just think the Bears' fan base is among the more irrational when it comes to QBs. Which makes sense, given the history. None of us have ever seen a top QB in town, up close and following him every week -- to know what that looks & feels like. We've only seen it from afar.

 

I think you are overly critical of Bears fans dealing with QBs. They may have given Grossman poor treatment, but he brought all of that upon himself. He was given every chance, and just crapped the heck out of the bed. If anything, they should be credited for pointing out the team was winning without help from the QB. The Bears would be no better off today if fans were just a little nicer to Rex. Other than how rabidly they reacted to Rex's every mistake (which happened far too often), where's the irrational behavior? They hated everybody else because just about everybody else sucked. Harbaugh was decent, but if anything Ditka should be blamed for his career not lasting in Chicago. Any other fan base with QB issues is going to act similarly. You think Green Bay would be thoughtful and analytical about their QB situation if they didn't spend the last 20 years with Favre? You think Giants fans would be hunky dory with Eli's missteps if they didn't have multiple SB titles, including a recent one, to think about?

[Soul]

That's true. I just think the Bears' fan base is among the more irrational when it comes to QBs. Which makes sense, given the history. None of us have ever seen a top QB in town, up close and following him every week -- to know what that looks & feels like. We've only seen it from afar.

 

I think you are overly critical of Bears fans dealing with QBs. They may have given Grossman poor treatment, but he brought all of that upon himself. He was given every chance, and just crapped the heck out of the bed. If anything, they should be credited for pointing out the team was winning without help from the QB. The Bears would be no better off today if fans were just a little nicer to Rex. Other than how rabidly they reacted to Rex's every mistake (which happened far too often), where's the irrational behavior? They hated everybody else because just about everybody else sucked. Harbaugh was decent, but if anything Ditka should be blamed for his career not lasting in Chicago. Any other fan base with QB issues is going to act similarly. You think Green Bay would be thoughtful and analytical about their QB situation if they didn't spend the last 20 years with Favre? You think Giants fans would be hunky dory with Eli's missteps if they didn't have multiple SB titles, including a recent one, to think about?

 

I'm not so sure about that (we'd be in the same position if the fans were nice to Rex). I agree Rex crapped the bed, but his treatment in my view was extraordinarily bad, especially for a team that had just gone to the Super Bowl. You can say "he should be able to take it" but it became unbelievably personal. I still think Rex has talent -- possibly backup QB talent, but at this point there would be no way for him to play in Chicago, even as a backup.

[jersey cubs fan]

That's true. I just think the Bears' fan base is among the more irrational when it comes to QBs. Which makes sense, given the history. None of us have ever seen a top QB in town, up close and following him every week -- to know what that looks & feels like. We've only seen it from afar.

 

I think you are overly critical of Bears fans dealing with QBs. They may have given Grossman poor treatment, but he brought all of that upon himself. He was given every chance, and just crapped the heck out of the bed. If anything, they should be credited for pointing out the team was winning without help from the QB. The Bears would be no better off today if fans were just a little nicer to Rex. Other than how rabidly they reacted to Rex's every mistake (which happened far too often), where's the irrational behavior? They hated everybody else because just about everybody else sucked. Harbaugh was decent, but if anything Ditka should be blamed for his career not lasting in Chicago. Any other fan base with QB issues is going to act similarly. You think Green Bay would be thoughtful and analytical about their QB situation if they didn't spend the last 20 years with Favre? You think Giants fans would be hunky dory with Eli's missteps if they didn't have multiple SB titles, including a recent one, to think about?

 

I'm not so sure about that (we'd be in the same position if the fans were nice to Rex). I agree Rex crapped the bed, but his treatment in my view was extraordinarily bad, especially for a team that had just gone to the Super Bowl. You can say "he should be able to take it" but it became unbelievably personal. I still think Rex has talent -- possibly backup QB talent, but at this point there would be no way for him to play in Chicago, even as a backup.

 

Of course he has talent, he just doesn't have the head. I think it's ridiculous to suggest, as you appear to be doing, that he would have been better with the Bears if they treated him better. Rex fall apart all on his own. The Arizona game was on the road. The weak play in the Super Bowl didn't involve Bears fans. Rex couldn't handle the pressure of opposing defenses, the home crowd had nothing to do with it. Maybe they made things a little worse than they would have been in a game or two, but Rex's ultimate failings are the result of Rex, and Ron Turner. It's not the fans' fault. And again, Rex was one of dozens of QBs who failed in Chicago. That's not the fans' fault. The Bears have been poor in identifying, acquiring and developing QBs. It's not like Rex was some can't miss prospect. He was a short Florida guy with a lot of people who expected him to fail, and that was long before Bears fans got on his case. Now they have actually bypassed the identify and develop stage of the game, by simply acquiring an established quality pro.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Of course he has talent, he just doesn't have the head.

 

This is something I can't stand about fandom. We don't know anything about his head. There's no basis for judgment there.

 

I suspect his height was always his biggest problem.

[jersey cubs fan]

Of course he has talent, he just doesn't have the head.

 

This is something I can't stand about fandom. We don't know anything about his head. There's no basis for judgment there.

 

I suspect his height was always his biggest problem.

 

There's plenty of basis. I'm not talking about some silly notion of toughness or anything. He very clearly crumbled under defensive pressure. Not emotional pressure, or fan insults. He fell apart midgame far too often when teams started getting to him. His INTs were clearly mental F ups. That's not ridiculous fandom talking. It's just the facts. Sure, his height probably played a part, but his height was not the determining factor. You can be a successful relatively short QB.

[Magnetic Curses]

Of course he has talent, he just doesn't have the head.

 

This is something I can't stand about fandom. We don't know anything about his head. There's no basis for judgment there.

 

I suspect his height was always his biggest problem.

 

There's plenty of basis. I'm not talking about some silly notion of toughness or anything. He very clearly crumbled under defensive pressure. Not emotional pressure, or fan insults. He fell apart midgame far too often when teams started getting to him. His INTs were clearly mental F ups. That's not ridiculous fandom talking. It's just the facts. Sure, his height probably played a part, but his height was not the determining factor. You can be a successful relatively short QB.

 

i don't think his height played much of a factor at all. it was his head, you're right. more specifically, it was his inability to avoid pressure and make time for himself. he had no instincts at all. he would flush when he had time and he would stand there when he had none. rex was the haley joel osment of the NFL, he saw more ghosts than any other qb in history, but he would just stand there and get anhilated in other situations.

 

you'd be right in saying that it was his head. if it wasn't his head, it wasn't anything. rex had all of the tools to become a really good quarterback.

[cubweiser03]

Rex's pocket presence, mobility was off the charts bad. He could make all the throws but when a play broke down, he broke down with it. This was/is his so called 'fatal flaw'.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Okay, I get what you mean now. My bad.

[Soul]

That's true. I just think the Bears' fan base is among the more irrational when it comes to QBs. Which makes sense, given the history. None of us have ever seen a top QB in town, up close and following him every week -- to know what that looks & feels like. We've only seen it from afar.

 

I think you are overly critical of Bears fans dealing with QBs. They may have given Grossman poor treatment, but he brought all of that upon himself. He was given every chance, and just crapped the heck out of the bed. If anything, they should be credited for pointing out the team was winning without help from the QB. The Bears would be no better off today if fans were just a little nicer to Rex. Other than how rabidly they reacted to Rex's every mistake (which happened far too often), where's the irrational behavior? They hated everybody else because just about everybody else sucked. Harbaugh was decent, but if anything Ditka should be blamed for his career not lasting in Chicago. Any other fan base with QB issues is going to act similarly. You think Green Bay would be thoughtful and analytical about their QB situation if they didn't spend the last 20 years with Favre? You think Giants fans would be hunky dory with Eli's missteps if they didn't have multiple SB titles, including a recent one, to think about?

 

I'm not so sure about that (we'd be in the same position if the fans were nice to Rex). I agree Rex crapped the bed, but his treatment in my view was extraordinarily bad, especially for a team that had just gone to the Super Bowl. You can say "he should be able to take it" but it became unbelievably personal. I still think Rex has talent -- possibly backup QB talent, but at this point there would be no way for him to play in Chicago, even as a backup.

 

Of course he has talent, he just doesn't have the head. I think it's ridiculous to suggest, as you appear to be doing, that he would have been better with the Bears if they treated him better. Rex fall apart all on his own. The Arizona game was on the road. The weak play in the Super Bowl didn't involve Bears fans. Rex couldn't handle the pressure of opposing defenses, the home crowd had nothing to do with it. Maybe they made things a little worse than they would have been in a game or two, but Rex's ultimate failings are the result of Rex, and Ron Turner. It's not the fans' fault. And again, Rex was one of dozens of QBs who failed in Chicago. That's not the fans' fault. The Bears have been poor in identifying, acquiring and developing QBs. It's not like Rex was some can't miss prospect. He was a short Florida guy with a lot of people who expected him to fail, and that was long before Bears fans got on his case. Now they have actually bypassed the identify and develop stage of the game, by simply acquiring an established quality pro.

 

Then go ahead and think it's ridiculous. I'm not saying Rex would have been shooting lightning bolts out of his ass and putting up 120+ QB ratings every week, but I can see how it would be difficult to keep your head under the conditions the man was presented with. Did he fail? Yes. Was it all his fault? No way, sir.

[jersey cubs fan]

Then go ahead and think it's ridiculous. I'm not saying Rex would have been shooting lightning bolts out of his ass and putting up 120+ QB ratings every week, but I can see how it would be difficult to keep your head under the conditions the man was presented with. Did he fail? Yes. Was it all his fault? No way, sir.

 

Correct, Turner played a role, as did Angelo by letting the line deteriorate. But it sure as hell wasn't the fans' fault that Grossman crapped the bed, especially when so much of that defacation was on the road.

[gflore34]

Then go ahead and think it's ridiculous. I'm not saying Rex would have been shooting lightning bolts out of his ass and putting up 120+ QB ratings every week, but I can see how it would be difficult to keep your head under the conditions the man was presented with. Did he fail? Yes. Was it all his fault? No way, sir.

 

Correct, Turner played a role, as did Angelo by letting the line deteriorate. But it sure as hell wasn't the fans' fault that Grossman crapped the bed, especially when so much of that defacation was on the road.

 

Hell, he couldn't handle or execute basic QB - get the snap from the center - on a consistent basis.