Cubs expected to sign Paul Bako (1 yr, $500,000)

[JeffH]

Koyie Hill is just as cheap.

Koyie Hill is better defensively.

Koyie Hill has more power.

Koyie Hill is much, much younger.

 

For a team that needs to cut payroll, they sure are nickel and diming the hell out of the payroll flexibility they do have.

 

After that late season game last year in which some analyst (Sutcliffe?) was pointing out how Hill was changing his catching stance based on the type of pitch to be thrown, I don't want ol' Koyie anywhere near a meaningful Cubs game, unless he's playing for the other team.

 

That said, it would be nice if Hendry could scrape up a little dough for Gregg Zaun.

[Post Count Padder]

Koyie Hill is just as cheap.

Koyie Hill is better defensively.

Koyie Hill has more power.

Koyie Hill is much, much younger.

 

For a team that needs to cut payroll, they sure are nickel and diming the hell out of the payroll flexibility they do have.

 

After that late season game last year in which some analyst (Sutcliffe?) was pointing out how Hill was changing his catching stance based on the type of pitch to be thrown, I don't want ol' Koyie anywhere near a meaningful Cubs game, unless he's playing for the other team.

 

That said, it would be nice if Hendry could scrape up a little dough for Gregg Zaun.

I'd prefer Zaun over Bako, but Zaun would probably want more than $500,000.

[UMFan83]

We all said the Cubs free spending ways would come back to bite us, and it has big time this offseason.

[17 Seconds]

We all said the Cubs free spending ways would come back to bite us, and it has big time this offseason.

 

Because we don't want to waste 2.5M on a backup catcher?

[imb]

it's a banner day for desipio

 

let the gabor bako references rain down from the heavens

[cubsfan26]

We all said the Cubs free spending ways would come back to bite us, and it has big time this offseason.

 

Because we don't want to waste 2.5M on a backup catcher?

 

 

Especially a back up catcher who might only get 110-120 AB's. Thats a huge waste of money, when you have a catcher like Soto around. I dunno how anyone can say the Cubs free spending has came back to haunt us yet. I think it depends on how things work out this season. If Fontenot/Miles platoon is productive(should be), Gregg pitches well and our bullpen is good then losing Wood/DeRosa doesn't hurt. I know both guys are fan favorites so it feels alot worse losing those guys and replacing them with guys like Gregg/Miles. But I really don't think we downgraded those spots as much as people are making it out to be. Especially when were adding a potential stud hitter(when healthy) in Bradley, and hopefully another good to very good SP.

[dew1679666265]

We all said the Cubs free spending ways would come back to bite us, and it has big time this offseason.

 

Because we don't want to waste 2.5M on a backup catcher?

 

 

Especially a back up catcher who might only get 110-120 AB's. Thats a huge waste of money, when you have a catcher like Soto around. I dunno how anyone can say the Cubs free spending has came back to haunt us yet. I think it depends on how things work out this season. If Fontenot/Miles platoon is productive(should be), Gregg pitches well and our bullpen is good then losing Wood/DeRosa doesn't hurt. I know both guys are fan favorites so it feels alot worse losing those guys and replacing them with guys like Gregg/Miles. But I really don't think we downgraded those spots as much as people are making it out to be. Especially when were adding a potential stud hitter(when healthy) in Bradley, and hopefully another good to very good SP.

 

I think he was talking about the offseason in general, not just the move from Blanco to Bako. And we have most certainly downgraded throughout the roster.

 

Miles has OPS'd .704 in his career against lefties, while Fontenot has OPS'd .852 against righties - that's an average of .778. DeRosa OPS'd .857 last year. He may regress a bit, but there's just as much of a chance that Fontenot declines with more ABs. There's little chance that the Miles/Fontenot platoon will come close to DeRosa.

 

And Gregg may pitch decently (he did have an ERA+ above 120 the last two years), but his K:BB ratio was pretty poor last year and was barely better than 2:1 in 07. And if this moves Marmol to closer, it hurts more.

 

If we bring in Bradley and Peavy, I think the overall offseason might be a net plus, but that's assuming alot apparently. Plus, Bradley's value is far less because he's extremely unlikely to play more than 80-90 games for us. Without DeRosa, that's Gathright, Reed or Hoffpauir playing those other 70-80 games.

[cubsfan26]

Miles has OPS'd .704 in his career against lefties, while Fontenot has OPS'd .852 against righties - that's an average of .778. DeRosa OPS'd .857 last year. He may regress a bit, but there's just as much of a chance that Fontenot declines with more ABs. There's little chance that the Miles/Fontenot platoon will come close to DeRosa

 

 

DeRosa career OPS is 770, so if you're gonna go by career numbers then it's pretty even to. DeRosa is most likely going to be a around 800 OPS guy like he was in 06-07. Here's what DeRosa did the last two years, and what the Fontenot/Miles platoon would have done.

 

DeRosa

285/376/857 -08

293/371/791 -07

 

Fontenot/Miles platoon

307/387/858 -08

292/364/752 -07

 

So honestly the numbers aren't that far off, and the only difference in 07 is really the power. But keep in mind that was also Fontenot rookie season. Fontenot has always shown pretty good power when facing RH pitching, as he proved last year. Yes there's little chance Fontenot/Miles platoon will come close to 08 DeRosa(09 DeRosa probably won't either), when getting 500 AB's. But there's a very good chance that combo could come close to putting up simliar to 06-07 DeRosa numbers. Keep in mind Fontenot often put up DeRosa type numbers in the minors, and facing mostly righties should help do that in the majors.

 

And Gregg may pitch decently (he did have an ERA+ above 120 the last two years), but his K:BB ratio was pretty poor last year and was barely better than 2:1 in 07. And if this moves Marmol to closer, it hurts more.

 

In the big picture Gregg is probably gonna allow 2-5 more runs then Wood did last season, and probably pitch a few more innings. I know Wood will make things look like prettier, and the fans love him. But going from Wood to Gregg isn't gonna have a major impact on our bullpen. I agree moving Marmol to closer could have a big impact on the pen. But even if he's moved to closer, I really doubt he will a closer who pitches one inning. Lou is still gonna use Marmol for plenty of 5-6 out saves, and he come in if someone gets in a jam in the 8th. Lou will still use him as a weapon and to clean up the mess, it will just be in the 8th and 9th instead of the 7th and 8th. If the bullpen is gonna be good or not next year doesn't really depend on Marmol/Gregg IMO. Because I still expect Marmol to be used as a weapn, and not just a closer(if he does close), and I expect Gregg to be solid. IMO the pen being good or not depends on how Gaudin, Wuertz, Guzman, Vizcaino and maybe Samardzija pitch. If even two of those guys pitch to the level their capable of we will have a pretty good pen.

[dew1679666265]

Miles has OPS'd .704 in his career against lefties, while Fontenot has OPS'd .852 against righties - that's an average of .778. DeRosa OPS'd .857 last year. He may regress a bit, but there's just as much of a chance that Fontenot declines with more ABs. There's little chance that the Miles/Fontenot platoon will come close to DeRosa

 

 

DeRosa career OPS is 770, so if you're gonna go by career numbers then it's pretty even to. DeRosa is most likely going to be a around 800 OPS guy like he was in 06-07. Here's what DeRosa did the last two years, and what the Fontenot/Miles platoon would have done.

 

DeRosa

285/376/857 -08

293/371/791 -07

 

Fontenot/Miles platoon

307/387/858 -08

292/364/752 -07

 

So honestly the numbers aren't that far off, and the only difference in 07 is really the power. But keep in mind that was also Fontenot rookie season. Fontenot has always shown pretty good power when facing RH pitching, as he proved last year. Yes there's little chance Fontenot/Miles platoon will come close to 08 DeRosa, when getting a combined 500 AB's. But there's a very good chance that combo could come close to putting up simliar to 06-07 DeRosa numbers. Keep in mind Fontenot often put up DeRosa type numbers in the minors, and facing mostly righties should help do that in the majors.

 

Miles' 08 was an anomaly, while DeRosa has posted three straight years of OPS+'s better than Miles' career year. The chances are that Miles will regress quite a bit, while Fontenot will likely be a little worse.

 

Even if DeRosa drops back to 06-07 levels, he'll still be far better than the Miles half of the platoon. Fontenot might make up for it, but that's too risky of a bet for me.

[cubsfan26]

Miles' 08 was an anomaly, while DeRosa has posted three straight years of OPS+'s better than Miles' career year. The chances are that Miles will regress quite a bit, while Fontenot will likely be a little worse.Even if DeRosa drops back to 06-07 levels, he'll still be far better than the Miles half of the platoon. Fontenot might make up for it, but that's too risky of a bet for me.

 

 

Miles part of the platoon is gonna get 120 AB's or so. Miles had a 738, 704 and 755 OPS against LH pitching the last three years. So his lack of power isn't gonna weigh down the platoon that much, because of how much less AB's he gets. If Fontenot hits 280/360/810 getting 400 AB's, mix with say Miles 290/360/730 numbers against LH pitching, it will be simliar to what DeRosa did in 07. I think giving Fontenot this role is a little risky as well, but I also think he deserves this chance. The guy had 924,825 and 807 OPS in his last three years in the minors, and has hit well in the majors when he's gotten a chance to play.

[dew1679666265]

Miles' 08 was an anomaly, while DeRosa has posted three straight years of OPS+'s better than Miles' career year. The chances are that Miles will regress quite a bit, while Fontenot will likely be a little worse.Even if DeRosa drops back to 06-07 levels, he'll still be far better than the Miles half of the platoon. Fontenot might make up for it, but that's too risky of a bet for me.

 

 

Miles part of the platoon is gonna get 120 AB's or so. Miles had a 738, 704 and 755 OPS against LH pitching the last three years. So his lack of power isn't gonna weigh down the platoon that much, because of how much less AB's he gets. If Fontenot hits 280/360/810 getting 400 AB's, mix with say Miles 290/360/730 numbers against LH pitching, it will be simliar to what DeRosa did in 07. I think giving Fontenot this role is a little risky as well, but I also think he deserves this chance. The guy had 924,825 and 807 OPS in his last three years in the minors, and has hit well in the majors when he's gotten a chance to play.

 

I'll live with the platoon if trading DeRosa leads to Peavy. Otherwise, I'm going to be very worried about the offense dropping off significantly.

 

I just hope you're right and I'm wrong here.

[cubsfan26]

I'll live with the platoon if trading DeRosa leads to Peavy. Otherwise, I'm going to be very worried about the offense dropping off significantly

 

 

This offense is still gonna score alot of runs, we still have hitters like Lee, Ramirez, Soto, Soriano, and if you add Bradley to that mix thats five good to very good hitters. Mixing in guys like Theriot, Fukudome/Johnson and Fontenot/Miles isn't change things a ton. I do think we lost some power, but we will still get on base alot and will still have one of the top offenses in the NL. Because even our three so-so hitters in our line-up all should get on base at a good rate, which will put our big five in a postion to drive them in alot.

[dew1679666265]

I'll live with the platoon if trading DeRosa leads to Peavy. Otherwise, I'm going to be very worried about the offense dropping off significantly

 

 

This offense is still gonna score alot of runs, we still have hitters like Lee, Ramirez, Soto, Soriano, and if you add Bradley to that mix thats five good to very good hitters. Mixing in guys like Theriot, Fukudome/Johnson and Fontenot/Miles isn't change things a ton. I do think we lost some power, but we will still get on base alot and will still have one of the top offenses in the NL. Because even our three so-so hitters in our line-up all should get on base at a good rate, which will put our big five in a postion to drive them in alot.

 

The pitching depth will be non-existant, though. With Marquis gone, we have Z/Harden/Lilly/Dempster/?(Marshall, Gaudin, Shark to fight it out I guess). Harden will likely be hurt and we don't have the depth we once did to replace him.

 

Add to that the loss of DeRosa, and we'll have Hoff/Reed/Gathright playing half the games in right field. For many games that gives us a lineup that includes Miles, Gathright, Theriot and Fuku. That worries me with less pitching depth.

 

We need a Peavy, badly.

[abuck1220]

Koyie Hill is just as cheap.

Koyie Hill is better defensively.

Koyie Hill has more power.

Koyie Hill is much, much younger.

 

For a team that needs to cut payroll, they sure are nickel and diming the hell out of the payroll flexibility they do have.

 

After that late season game last year in which some analyst (Sutcliffe?) was pointing out how Hill was changing his catching stance based on the type of pitch to be thrown, I don't want ol' Koyie anywhere near a meaningful Cubs game, unless he's playing for the other team.

 

yeah, because that's a mistake that absolutely cannot be corrected.

[JeffH]

Koyie Hill is just as cheap.

Koyie Hill is better defensively.

Koyie Hill has more power.

Koyie Hill is much, much younger.

 

For a team that needs to cut payroll, they sure are nickel and diming the hell out of the payroll flexibility they do have.

 

After that late season game last year in which some analyst (Sutcliffe?) was pointing out how Hill was changing his catching stance based on the type of pitch to be thrown, I don't want ol' Koyie anywhere near a meaningful Cubs game, unless he's playing for the other team.

 

yeah, because that's a mistake that absolutely cannot be corrected.

 

If it hasn't been corrected yet, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Illini Iceman]

We all said the Cubs free spending ways would come back to bite us, and it has big time this offseason.

 

True, those free spending ways kept us from spending $10M on a closer, $2.5M on a back up catcher and forced us to trade a 34 year old 2B coming off a career year with 1 year left on his contract. The big contracts have kept Hendry from being as free with pursuing high price talent as in past years but I think overall he is balancing it pretty well.

[cubsfan26]

The pitching depth will be non-existant, though. With Marquis gone, we have Z/Harden/Lilly/Dempster/?(Marshall, Gaudin, Shark to fight it out I guess). Harden will likely be hurt and we don't have the depth we once did to replace him.

 

 

How is the pitching depth gonna be worse then last year? We had Rich Harden for 12 starts last year, and I'm confident he will start at least 12 games if not more. When Harden wasn't starting we had a bad Rich Hill, below average Gallagher and Sean Marshall, in the rotation with Jason Marquis. Gaudin had a 4.43 era in 34 starts in 07, and 3.75 era in 6 starts last year. I'm pretty confident he can do what pretty much Marquis did the last two years, if he has to start. But Sean Marshall has also been very solid when given the chance to start the last two seasons. I'm not really expecting much from Samardzija but I think it's possible he could step in and pitch like Gallagher did last season at some point. The only issue with this rotation will be if Dempster is ALOT worse then last season. But all signs right now point to Dempster at least being a solid 2-3 next year. But even if Dempster isn't that good, 25-27 starts from Harden, and maybe a little better year from Zambrano would put our rotation right back were it was last year. I still think we will add another SP(not sure it will be Peavy though), but even if don't I don't see our rotation in much worse shape then it was for most of last year.

Edited January 2, 2009 by cubsfan26

[17 Seconds]

The pitching depth will be non-existant, though. With Marquis gone, we have Z/Harden/Lilly/Dempster/?(Marshall, Gaudin, Shark to fight it out I guess). Harden will likely be hurt and we don't have the depth we once did to replace him.

 

 

How is the pitching depth gonna be worse then last year? We had Rich Harden for 12 starts last year, and I'm confident he will start at least 12 games if not more. When Harden wasn't starting we had a bad Rich Hill, below average Gallagher and Sean Marshall, in the rotation with Jason Marquis. Gaudin had a 4.43 era in 34 starts in 07, and 3.75 era in 6 starts last year. I'm pretty confident he can do what pretty much Marquis did the last two years, if he has to start. But Sean Marshall has also been very solid when given the chance to start the last two seasons. I'm not really expecting much from Samardzija but I think it's possible he could step in and pitch like Gallagher did last season at some point. The only issue with this rotation will be if Dempster is ALOT worse then last season. But all signs right now point to Dempster at least being a solid 2-3 next year. But even if Dempster isn't that good, 25-27 starts from Harden, and maybe a little better year from Zambrano would put our rotation right back were it was last year.

 

you can't expect 25-27 starts out of harden. i'd be thrilled with 20

[dew1679666265]

The pitching depth will be non-existant, though. With Marquis gone, we have Z/Harden/Lilly/Dempster/?(Marshall, Gaudin, Shark to fight it out I guess). Harden will likely be hurt and we don't have the depth we once did to replace him.

 

 

How is the pitching depth gonna be worse then last year? We had Rich Harden for 12 starts last year, and I'm confident he will start at least 12 games if not more. When Harden wasn't starting we had a bad Rich Hill, below average Gallagher and Sean Marshall, in the rotation with Jason Marquis. Gaudin had a 4.43 era in 34 starts in 07, and 3.75 era in 6 starts last year. I'm pretty confident he can do what pretty much Marquis did the last two years, if he has to start. But Sean Marshall has also been very solid when given the chance to start the last two seasons. I'm not really expecting much from Samardzija but I think it's possible he could step in and pitch like Gallagher did last season at some point. The only issue with this rotation will be if Dempster is ALOT worse then last season. But all signs right now point to Dempster at least being a solid 2-3 next year. But even if Dempster isn't that good, 25-27 starts from Harden, and maybe a little better year from Zambrano would put our rotation right back were it was last year.

 

The pitching depth will be worse because last year we had Marshall in the bullpen, ready to fill in when a starter went down.

 

Now, with Marquis gone, Marshall will be the 5th starter. So, when Harden gets hurt we can't go with Marshall - we'll have to go with a Gaudin, Shark, etc. Either of them will be a worse option than plugging Marshall into the rotation.

 

And, Lord forbid, if we should lose Harden and Z for a start or two at the same time, we'll have Gaudin AND Shark in the rotation at the same time. That's less depth than we had last year.

[cubsfan26]

you can't expect 25-27 starts out of harden. i'd be thrilled with 20

 

I'm not but I don't expect Dempster to completely fall apart either. I doubt he will pitch like an ace again, but I think the guy will still be good.

 

Now, with Marquis gone, Marshall will be the 5th starter. So, when Harden gets hurt we can't go with Marshall - we'll have to go with a Gaudin, Shark, etc. Either of them will be a worse option than plugging Marshall into the rotation.

 

Why are you so sure Marshall will be in the rotation? Why can't Chad Gaudin win the spot? Why is Gaudin a worse option then Marshall? Gaudin actually has more success starting then Marshall has had the last two years. I don't get why people don't consider Gaudin a starter, when just in 07 he started 34 games had a 4.43 era in the AL and pitched 199 innings. Then last year he only started one less game then Marshall, and had a better era as a starter. I think Gaudin or Marshall could do the same thing Marquis did, and who ever isn't starter is just fine as the swing guy. Of course I would rather upgrade and use Marshall as the swing guy, Gaudin 6-7th inning, but I think we have the same depth last year still. Marshall or Gaudin take Marquis spot, whoever isn't starting takes Marshall swing guy spot, and Vizcaino, Guzman or Wuertz takes Gaudin 6-7 inning spot.

 

And, Lord forbid, if we should lose Harden and Z for a start or two at the same time, we'll have Gaudin AND Shark in the rotation at the same time. That's less depth than we had last year.

 

Didn't that happen last year? Zambrano went on the DL and we didn't have Harden yet? We had Gallagher, Marshall and Marquis in the same rotation, and we still didn't lose every game.

Edited January 2, 2009 by cubsfan26

[dew1679666265]

Now, with Marquis gone, Marshall will be the 5th starter. So, when Harden gets hurt we can't go with Marshall - we'll have to go with a Gaudin, Shark, etc. Either of them will be a worse option than plugging Marshall into the rotation.

 

Why are you so sure Marshall will be in the rotation? Who says Chad Gaudin might not win the spot? Why is Gaudin a worse option then Marshall? Gaudin actually has more success starting them Marshall has had the last two years. I don't get why people don't consider Gaudin a starter, when just in 07 he started 34 games had a 4.43 era in the AL and pitched 199 innings. Then last year he only started one less game then Marshall, and had a better era as a starter. I think Gaudin or Marshall could do the same thing Marquis did, and who ever isn't starter is just fine as the swing guy.

 

Ok, fine. Gaudin becomes the fifth starter and we have less depth than last year. If Harden goes down, we have Marshall to fill in. If another starter goes down, we have Shark or Atkins/Hart.

 

That's still worse depth than last year.

 

And, Lord forbid, if we should lose Harden and Z for a start or two at the same time, we'll have Gaudin AND Shark in the rotation at the same time. That's less depth than we had last year.

 

Didn't that happen last year? Zambrano went on the DL and we didn't have Harden yet? We had Gallagher, Marshall and Marquis in the same rotation, and we still didn't lose every game.

 

And without Gallagher and Marquis on the roster, that becomes Gaudin and Shark in the rotation. That's worse than Gallagher and Marquis.

 

Our starting rotation will be similar, but the quality pitchers we have ready to fill in when an injury happens is now less than it was last year when we had Marquis.

[Monco]

We all said the Cubs free spending ways would come back to bite us, and it has big time this offseason.

 

Because we don't want to waste 2.5M on a backup catcher?

 

I doubt he would get 2.5 now. But paying over 12 million for a platoon CF isn't exactly spending wisely either.

[cubsfan26]

Ok, fine. Gaudin becomes the fifth starter and we have less depth than last year. If Harden goes down, we have Marshall to fill in. If another starter goes down, we have Shark or Atkins/Hart.

 

That's still worse depth than last year.

 

What team has good depth when three starters go out? Gaudin was never gonna start for us last year anyways because he wasn't stretched out enough to start. So last year in say August or September Samardzija or Hart would have started in that situation as well. If the Cubs lose 2-3 starters for a long period of time it won't matter if Marquis was on the roster or not. Good depth saves you from injuries, but only to a point. This team still has very good depth, just not as much as they did to end the season, and maybe some of the guys they will lose don't have the track records as others. But that doesn't mean these guys can't do the job, or better.

 

 

And without Gallagher and Marquis on the roster, that becomes Gaudin and Shark in the rotation. That's worse than Gallagher and Marquis.

 

How do we know Gaudin and Samardzija would be worse then Marquis and Gallagher? We don't know how Samardzija might improve or how he would do starting a few games. Gaudin as I pointed out pitched just like Marquis in 2007. Personally I think your freaking out about losing depth a bit. If you don't have a 200m payroll you need to cut back in spots to get better. When you have guys like Marshall and Gaudin you don't need to have a pitcher like Marquis making the money he does on the roster, when those guys can probably do what he does. When you have a young like Fontenot hitting like he has you consider getting rid of a guy like DeRosa if helps you get Bradley.

[dew1679666265]

Ok, fine. Gaudin becomes the fifth starter and we have less depth than last year. If Harden goes down, we have Marshall to fill in. If another starter goes down, we have Shark or Atkins/Hart.

 

That's still worse depth than last year.

 

What team has good depth when three starters go out? Gaudin was never gonna start for us last year anyways because he wasn't stretched out enough to start. So last year in say August or September Samardzija or Hart would have started in that situation as well. If the Cubs lose 2-3 starters for a long period of time it won't matter if Marquis was on the roster or not. Good depth saves you from injuries, but only to a point. This team still has very good depth, just not as much as they did to end the season, and maybe some of the guys they will lose don't have the track records as others. But that doesn't mean these guys can't do the job, or better.

 

We didn't have three starters out, we had two. Three starters out is an extreme situation, two is not. Last year with two starters out we had Marshall and Gallagher for a while and then Gaudin after him.

 

This year, if two starters go out, we have Gaudin/Marshall and Shark. I like Samardzija and hope he does well, but I'm not confident he'll be very good this year.

 

 

And without Gallagher and Marquis on the roster, that becomes Gaudin and Shark in the rotation. That's worse than Gallagher and Marquis.

 

How do we know Gaudin and Samardzija would be worse then Marquis and Gallagher? We don't know how Samardzija might improve or how he would do starting a few games. Gaudin as I pointed out pitched just like Marquis in 2007. Personally I think your freaking out about losing depth a bit. If you don't have a 200m payroll you need to cut back in spots to get better. When you have guys like Marshall and Gaudin you don't need to have a pitcher like Marquis making the money he does on the roster, when those guys can probably do what he does. When you have a young like Fontenot hitting like he has you consider getting rid of a guy like DeRosa if helps you get Bradley.

 

The thing is, trading Marquis and DeRosa didn't make us better. It made us worse.

 

I've already said, if we get Peavy I'm ok with all of this. Otherwise, I'm not. We didn't have to trade Marquis, Hendry chose to. And he made a bad choice.

[cubsfan26]

The thing is, trading Marquis and DeRosa didn't make us better. It made us worse.

 

 

I agree, but the key word is yet. Adding Bradley will help when you consider there losing those guys. If we add another good pitcher(doesn't have to just be Peavy), I think we will be better. But if we don't make anymore moves I think were just a little worse, and still a good team. Adding Peavy or another good pitcher then I'd we would be just as good as last year if not better. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens the rest of the offseason.