Pie

[Tim]

He really seems to be the odd man out this winter. He seems to be completely out of the Cubs plans given all their efforts to acquire a "left handed hitting OF". I find myself pondering the following allocation of resources:

 

Pie at $0.4M + Wood at $9M

 

vs.

 

Abreu at $9M + Hart at $0.4M

 

With Pie and Wood, our OF defense is very, very strong and we have the same incredibly strong pen to finish games, but the offense takes a hit. Not as much as it might seem at first, though, because the difference between Abreu at this stage of his career and the options we already have in house. We'd have Pie, Fukudome, Reed Johnson, Hoffpauir & DeRosa (with Fontenot playing at 2B) as options in the OF. Also, we might be able to find a bat during the summer if Pie struggles too much on offense.

 

With Abreu, our OF defense takes a hit at two positions when we shift Fukudome to CF. We also don't have money to sign Wood so the pen gets significantly weaker. However, it gives us another high OBP bat in the middle of the lineup. Abreu hasn't shown a heck of a lot of power the past few years, but would certainly provide more than the likes of Pie or Fontenot. However, he might require a 3-4 year contract at significantly more than the $9M I have listed. In which case we're on to other, lesser options (I just don't think the Cubs view Dunn or Soriano as viable in RF).

 

All in all, I think I might prefer going with our internal options in the OF and using the savings to guilt Kerry into taking that one year deal he said he'd take.

[cubsfan26]

Problem could be if both Pie and Fukudome struggle, and Fontenot hits more like he did 07 we could have issues. Especially if DeRosa and Theriot aren't as good offensivly next year. So you can either have a quality bat, or a quality extra reliever late in the game. For 9m I would rather take the quality bat, especially with Pie rumored to be in the deal to get Peavy. If the Cubs had a better idea of what Fukudome would do next year, I think they would consider giving Pie more of a chance. Plus we all know how Lou wants a good LH bat for the middle of the order.

[Backtobanks]

He really seems to be the odd man out this winter. He seems to be completely out of the Cubs plans given all their efforts to acquire a "left handed hitting OF". I find myself pondering the following allocation of resources:

 

Pie at $0.4M + Wood at $9M

 

vs.

 

Abreu at $9M + Hart at $0.4M

 

With Pie and Wood, our OF defense is very, very strong and we have the same incredibly strong pen to finish games, but the offense takes a hit. Not as much as it might seem at first, though, because the difference between Abreu at this stage of his career and the options we already have in house. We'd have Pie, Fukudome, Reed Johnson, Hoffpauir & DeRosa (with Fontenot playing at 2B) as options in the OF. Also, we might be able to find a bat during the summer if Pie struggles too much on offense.

 

With Abreu, our OF defense takes a hit at two positions when we shift Fukudome to CF. We also don't have money to sign Wood so the pen gets significantly weaker. However, it gives us another high OBP bat in the middle of the lineup. Abreu hasn't shown a heck of a lot of power the past few years, but would certainly provide more than the likes of Pie or Fontenot. However, he might require a 3-4 year contract at significantly more than the $9M I have listed. In which case we're on to other, lesser options (I just don't think the Cubs view Dunn or Soriano as viable in RF).

 

All in all, I think I might prefer going with our internal options in the OF and using the savings to guilt Kerry into taking that one year deal he said he'd take.

 

Not sure you're going to get Abreu for $9 million since he made 12.5, 13, and 15 million over the last three years. Unless it's backloaded, I'm thinking he might get 3/35 from somebody. I still think the best way to handle it is the trade for Scott from the O's. He's cheap, easy to platoon, and has decent power.

[CubFanPhilly]

All in all, I think I might prefer going with our internal options in the OF and using the savings to guilt Kerry into taking that one year deal he said he'd take.

 

I agree 100%. Do you think Kerry would oblige? If so, I'd much rather hold on to Pie, Gaudin, and Wood than sign an Abreu or Ibanez.

 

Anyone think a deal could be made with the Padres that didn't include Pie? If so, even better.

[cubsfan26]

All in all, I think I might prefer going with our internal options in the OF and using the savings to guilt Kerry into taking that one year deal he said he'd take.

 

I agree 100%. Do you think Kerry would oblige? If so, I'd much rather hold on to Pie, Gaudin, and Wood than sign an Abreu or Ibanez.

 

Anyone think a deal could be made with the Padres that didn't include Pie? If so, even better.

 

 

Sounds like Pie would go to the third team for pitcher that we would send to the Padres, in a potential Peavy trade.

Edited December 6, 2008 by cubsfan26

[SouthSideRyan]

If the options are Abreu or Ibanez for RF, we're definitely better off with the 6 headed CF/RF/2B monster.

[Mephistopheles]

lol felix pie.

[Jehrico]

He really seems to be the odd man out this winter. He seems to be completely out of the Cubs plans given all their efforts to acquire a "left handed hitting OF". I find myself pondering the following allocation of resources:

 

Pie at $0.4M + Wood at $9M

 

vs.

 

Abreu at $9M + Hart at $0.4M

 

With Pie and Wood, our OF defense is very, very strong and we have the same incredibly strong pen to finish games, but the offense takes a hit. Not as much as it might seem at first, though, because the difference between Abreu at this stage of his career and the options we already have in house. We'd have Pie, Fukudome, Reed Johnson, Hoffpauir & DeRosa (with Fontenot playing at 2B) as options in the OF. Also, we might be able to find a bat during the summer if Pie struggles too much on offense.

 

With Abreu, our OF defense takes a hit at two positions when we shift Fukudome to CF. We also don't have money to sign Wood so the pen gets significantly weaker. However, it gives us another high OBP bat in the middle of the lineup. Abreu hasn't shown a heck of a lot of power the past few years, but would certainly provide more than the likes of Pie or Fontenot. However, he might require a 3-4 year contract at significantly more than the $9M I have listed. In which case we're on to other, lesser options (I just don't think the Cubs view Dunn or Soriano as viable in RF).

 

All in all, I think I might prefer going with our internal options in the OF and using the savings to guilt Kerry into taking that one year deal he said he'd take.

 

Not sure you're going to get Abreu for $9 million since he made 12.5, 13, and 15 million over the last three years. Unless it's backloaded, I'm thinking he might get 3/35 from somebody. I still think the best way to handle it is the trade for Scott from the O's. He's cheap, easy to platoon, and has decent power.

No way in hell anyone gives Abreu that. He's older, hasn't produced during that contract like he did before, his defense is in a serious decline, and the overall market is suppressed right now. That last contract was his last prime-years contract. My guess is he'll be working off of 1-2 year deals for the rest of his career unless he gives someone a decent discount for 3 or more years.

[Guest]

lol felix pie.

I'm not expecting a lot offensively. He'd be out there for his defense. If he's hitting at replacement level (or below), then you shift Fukudome to CF, put DeRosa in RF and use mighty might at 2B. The point is that we have options out there and I'm not thrilled about allocating that many resources to the options that are available on the market. If we were getting Abreu about four years ago, I would have been thrilled (and was heavily pushing for it at the time). But with my guess on what he's going to get in the market, I really don't want to pay for the declining years of a guy who has been plagued by allegations of a lack of effort throughout his career.

 

I have no interest in Ibanez.

 

I'd be thrilled with Dunn, but I don't think the Cubs will go there.

 

I'd be thrilled if we traded for Hermida, but the Cubs don't have the resources to get Peavy and Hermida.

 

Who else is there?

 

btw - people have asked you to expound upon your disdain for Pie in the past, but I don't recall you've ever really explained the depth of your confidence that he'll not only suck but suck hard.

[nolanwood]

He really seems to be the odd man out this winter. He seems to be completely out of the Cubs plans given all their efforts to acquire a "left handed hitting OF". I find myself pondering the following allocation of resources:

 

Pie at $0.4M + Wood at $9M

 

vs.

 

Abreu at $9M + Hart at $0.4M

 

With Pie and Wood, our OF defense is very, very strong and we have the same incredibly strong pen to finish games, but the offense takes a hit. Not as much as it might seem at first, though, because the difference between Abreu at this stage of his career and the options we already have in house. We'd have Pie, Fukudome, Reed Johnson, Hoffpauir & DeRosa (with Fontenot playing at 2B) as options in the OF. Also, we might be able to find a bat during the summer if Pie struggles too much on offense.

 

With Abreu, our OF defense takes a hit at two positions when we shift Fukudome to CF. We also don't have money to sign Wood so the pen gets significantly weaker. However, it gives us another high OBP bat in the middle of the lineup. Abreu hasn't shown a heck of a lot of power the past few years, but would certainly provide more than the likes of Pie or Fontenot. However, he might require a 3-4 year contract at significantly more than the $9M I have listed. In which case we're on to other, lesser options (I just don't think the Cubs view Dunn or Soriano as viable in RF).

 

All in all, I think I might prefer going with our internal options in the OF and using the savings to guilt Kerry into taking that one year deal he said he'd take.

 

=D> I agree!

[Backtobanks]

lol felix pie.

I'm not expecting a lot offensively. He'd be out there for his defense. If he's hitting at replacement level (or below), then you shift Fukudome to CF, put DeRosa in RF and use mighty might at 2B. The point is that we have options out there and I'm not thrilled about allocating that many resources to the options that are available on the market. If we were getting Abreu about four years ago, I would have been thrilled (and was heavily pushing for it at the time). But with my guess on what he's going to get in the market, I really don't want to pay for the declining years of a guy who has been plagued by allegations of a lack of effort throughout his career.

 

I have no interest in Ibanez.

 

I'd be thrilled with Dunn, but I don't think the Cubs will go there.

 

I'd be thrilled if we traded for Hermida, but the Cubs don't have the resources to get Peavy and Hermida.

 

Who else is there?

 

btw - people have asked you to expound upon your disdain for Pie in the past, but I don't recall you've ever really explained the depth of your confidence that he'll not only suck but suck hard.

 

Scott

[Backtobanks]

He really seems to be the odd man out this winter. He seems to be completely out of the Cubs plans given all their efforts to acquire a "left handed hitting OF". I find myself pondering the following allocation of resources:

 

Pie at $0.4M + Wood at $9M

 

vs.

 

Abreu at $9M + Hart at $0.4M

 

With Pie and Wood, our OF defense is very, very strong and we have the same incredibly strong pen to finish games, but the offense takes a hit. Not as much as it might seem at first, though, because the difference between Abreu at this stage of his career and the options we already have in house. We'd have Pie, Fukudome, Reed Johnson, Hoffpauir & DeRosa (with Fontenot playing at 2B) as options in the OF. Also, we might be able to find a bat during the summer if Pie struggles too much on offense.

 

With Abreu, our OF defense takes a hit at two positions when we shift Fukudome to CF. We also don't have money to sign Wood so the pen gets significantly weaker. However, it gives us another high OBP bat in the middle of the lineup. Abreu hasn't shown a heck of a lot of power the past few years, but would certainly provide more than the likes of Pie or Fontenot. However, he might require a 3-4 year contract at significantly more than the $9M I have listed. In which case we're on to other, lesser options (I just don't think the Cubs view Dunn or Soriano as viable in RF).

 

All in all, I think I might prefer going with our internal options in the OF and using the savings to guilt Kerry into taking that one year deal he said he'd take.

 

Not sure you're going to get Abreu for $9 million since he made 12.5, 13, and 15 million over the last three years. Unless it's backloaded, I'm thinking he might get 3/35 from somebody. I still think the best way to handle it is the trade for Scott from the O's. He's cheap, easy to platoon, and has decent power.

No way in hell anyone gives Abreu that. He's older, hasn't produced during that contract like he did before, his defense is in a serious decline, and the overall market is suppressed right now. That last contract was his last prime-years contract. My guess is he'll be working off of 1-2 year deals for the rest of his career unless he gives someone a decent discount for 3 or more years.

 

Maybe you're right, but I still don't think you going to get Abreu for $9 million.

[BigbadB]

Isn't it pretty much a given that Pie will be needed to land Peavy?

 

I'm not so sure I like the above proposals when you remove Peavy from the equation.

 

I also believe Bradley comes cheaper than Abreu by several million.

[Mephistopheles]

lol felix pie.

I'm not expecting a lot offensively. He'd be out there for his defense. If he's hitting at replacement level (or below), then you shift Fukudome to CF, put DeRosa in RF and use mighty might at 2B. The point is that we have options out there and I'm not thrilled about allocating that many resources to the options that are available on the market. If we were getting Abreu about four years ago, I would have been thrilled (and was heavily pushing for it at the time). But with my guess on what he's going to get in the market, I really don't want to pay for the declining years of a guy who has been plagued by allegations of a lack of effort throughout his career.

 

I have no interest in Ibanez.

 

I'd be thrilled with Dunn, but I don't think the Cubs will go there.

 

I'd be thrilled if we traded for Hermida, but the Cubs don't have the resources to get Peavy and Hermida.

 

Who else is there?

 

btw - people have asked you to expound upon your disdain for Pie in the past, but I don't recall you've ever really explained the depth of your confidence that he'll not only suck but suck hard.

 

I have. ironically enough, on GRB i was blasted for defending pie and calling rasmus and pie similar prospects prior to the 2008 season. rasmus went out and failed to beat pie's first season in AAA. .283 .341 .451 for Pie and .251 .346 .396 for Rasmus.

[Mephistopheles]

Isn't it pretty much a given that Pie will be needed to land Peavy?

 

yes, that's what i was thinking. with fukudome being able to play center, there's no need to keep pie, even as a fourth outfielder.

[Mephistopheles]

Good times, read: http://gatewayredbirds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26883

[8654]

Problem could be if both Pie and Fukudome struggle, and Fontenot hits more like he did 07 we could have issues. Especially if DeRosa and Theriot aren't as good offensivly next year. So you can either have a quality bat, or a quality extra reliever late in the game. For 9m I would rather take the quality bat, especially with Pie rumored to be in the deal to get Peavy. If the Cubs had a better idea of what Fukudome would do next year, I think they would consider giving Pie more of a chance. Plus we all know how Lou wants a good LH bat for the middle of the order.

 

Font started out rippin the cover off the ball in 07. Then he slumped. Last year he hit well again. I think he will be fine. The only ? about Derosa should be if his power stay.

 

If we don't spend any $$$ for an OF (go w/ an in-house option), then $$$ won't be an issue in trading for Peavy. If we can have Peavy starting and Wood with Marmol, Shark, Gregg and Weurtz in the pen, I'll take the chance that we have a little drop off offensively.

[8654]

He really seems to be the odd man out this winter. He seems to be completely out of the Cubs plans given all their efforts to acquire a "left handed hitting OF". I find myself pondering the following allocation of resources:

 

Pie at $0.4M + Wood at $9M

 

vs.

 

Abreu at $9M + Hart at $0.4M

 

With Pie and Wood, our OF defense is very, very strong and we have the same incredibly strong pen to finish games, but the offense takes a hit. Not as much as it might seem at first, though, because the difference between Abreu at this stage of his career and the options we already have in house. We'd have Pie, Fukudome, Reed Johnson, Hoffpauir & DeRosa (with Fontenot playing at 2B) as options in the OF. Also, we might be able to find a bat during the summer if Pie struggles too much on offense.

 

With Abreu, our OF defense takes a hit at two positions when we shift Fukudome to CF. We also don't have money to sign Wood so the pen gets significantly weaker. However, it gives us another high OBP bat in the middle of the lineup. Abreu hasn't shown a heck of a lot of power the past few years, but would certainly provide more than the likes of Pie or Fontenot. However, he might require a 3-4 year contract at significantly more than the $9M I have listed. In which case we're on to other, lesser options (I just don't think the Cubs view Dunn or Soriano as viable in RF).

 

All in all, I think I might prefer going with our internal options in the OF and using the savings to guilt Kerry into taking that one year deal he said he'd take.

 

If we save $9 mil by staying in-house, we could split it for a 2 year $4.5 mil deal for Wood. Then everybody's happy.

[Tarver]

He really seems to be the odd man out this winter. He seems to be completely out of the Cubs plans given all their efforts to acquire a "left handed hitting OF". I find myself pondering the following allocation of resources:

 

Pie at $0.4M + Wood at $9M

 

vs.

 

Abreu at $9M + Hart at $0.4M

 

With Pie and Wood, our OF defense is very, very strong and we have the same incredibly strong pen to finish games, but the offense takes a hit. Not as much as it might seem at first, though, because the difference between Abreu at this stage of his career and the options we already have in house. We'd have Pie, Fukudome, Reed Johnson, Hoffpauir & DeRosa (with Fontenot playing at 2B) as options in the OF. Also, we might be able to find a bat during the summer if Pie struggles too much on offense.

 

With Abreu, our OF defense takes a hit at two positions when we shift Fukudome to CF. We also don't have money to sign Wood so the pen gets significantly weaker. However, it gives us another high OBP bat in the middle of the lineup. Abreu hasn't shown a heck of a lot of power the past few years, but would certainly provide more than the likes of Pie or Fontenot. However, he might require a 3-4 year contract at significantly more than the $9M I have listed. In which case we're on to other, lesser options (I just don't think the Cubs view Dunn or Soriano as viable in RF).

 

All in all, I think I might prefer going with our internal options in the OF and using the savings to guilt Kerry into taking that one year deal he said he'd take.

 

If we save $9 mil by staying in-house, we could split it for a 2 year $4.5 mil deal for Wood. Then everybody's happy.

 

Except Wood. No way he signs for that little.

[BigbadB]

If we save $9 mil by staying in-house, we could split it for a 2 year $4.5 mil deal for Wood. Then everybody's happy.

 

Absolutely zero chance Kerry Wood signs for 4.5m

[Jehrico]

If we save $9 mil by staying in-house, we could split it for a 2 year $4.5 mil deal for Wood. Then everybody's happy.

 

Absolutely zero chance Kerry Wood signs for 4.5m

Unless the second year on that deal is around $15 mil...

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Good times, read: http://gatewayredbirds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26883

 

 

Actually in that thread most of GRB's best posters defended you.

[Mephistopheles]

Good times, read: http://gatewayredbirds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26883

 

 

Actually in that thread most of GRB's best posters defended you.

 

Look what it got me. I wonder how that conversation would go today... after Pie's first PCL run was a lot better than Rasmus'

Edited December 7, 2008 by Mephistopheles

[8654]

If we save $9 mil by staying in-house, we could split it for a 2 year $4.5 mil deal for Wood. Then everybody's happy.

 

Absolutely zero chance Kerry Wood signs for 4.5m

 

Don't be so sure of that. The economy and a market flooded with closers combined with only a few teams needing a closer should drive down the cost. Additionally, Wood said he wants to be a Cub but for more than 1 year.

 

How much do you think he will get with his injury riddled past, including last year? Nobody can sign Wood as their closer w/out a legit Plan B (i.e. Marmol). How much you think KRod, Hoffman & Fuentes will get? They surely will get more than Wood. I think you have overvalued Wood at least, if not the entire market.

Edited December 7, 2008 by 8654

[BCVM22]

How much you think KRod, Putz & Fuentes will get?

 

Putz will get what he's due to be paid in 2009 ($5 mil), most likely, since he's not a free agent.