LH RF trade option?

[8654]

first of all, i never said anything about wanting abreu. also, i'm not the one getting all defensive and copping an attitude.

i'll break this down for you since most of your arguments are about stats that don't really matter

You can't fairly say anything about RBI because Winn hit leadoff a lot and he was on an offensively AWEFUL team. Put him 5th on the Cubs and see how many RBI & R he gets.

runs/rbis are a terrible way to evaluate a player's worth. they are a team stat based on lineup positioning.

 

Uh . . . yeah, I think that's the basic concept of what I said . . . maybe I should be clearer next time? You know . . . leading off & on an aweful team . . . did that not show up on your monitor?

 

 

 

why do you keep comparing him to those guys? those aren't the only options. it's not like we have to get one of those guys. i wouldn't want any of those guys with the price they'll come at. winn is not good defensively, so that's what we should be saying. we shouldn't be congratulating him for being slightly better than other crappy defenders.

 

Uh . . . {scratching head now] . . . I compared them ONCE. I did so while addressing another poster who said Winn wouldn't be enough of an upgrade to show that there apparently isn't much out there that WOULD be much of an upgrade. Those players are the players who have been id'ed as possible targets of JH for RF. To the best of MY knowledge, no other names have been mentioned. Have you heard something I haven't? I did ask you who YOU would pick to play RF . . . [waiting, waiting . . . waiting, waiting, waiting . . . ]

 

 

 

my point is that winn is not that good. we're already really tight with payroll and we want to add 8.25 million for a guy who put up the following ops numbers over his career?

 

READ the post . . . it would be a push financially. It's not ADDING payroll. It's EXCHANGING payroll & freeing up roster space. It's making it possible to add PEAVY's salary instead of using the money on some other slug FA RF. Do you understand this concept? Unload expendable dead weight, receive a serviceable need & use the earmarked $$$$$ from that NEED to pay for a LUXURY. Doesn't take that much G2 to get this concept. Winn may not be the best RF in the game, but he is ENOUGH to have for ONE YEAR in order to facilitate the Peavy trade. Then, possibly upgrade via trade at mid-season or via the NEXT free agent market (or from within). Or, we could sign an overpriced, negligibly better FA for 3 - 4 years ,NOT have any chance of affording Peavy & fuming about it for the next 3 - 4 years while we complain that JH is stupid because he didn't get Peavy. Is THAT more your speed?

 

 

 

san fransisco isn't really a pitcher's park

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?season=2008

 

I haven't checked your link, but I would guess that if you compared the overall ratings of NL West parks vs. NL Central parks, there would be a bit of a difference in favor of pitchers in the NL West. I could be wrong, but . . .

 

 

 

winn caeer- .288 .347 .425 .771

winn career w/risp- .282 .350 .415 .765

he's actually slightly worse with risp.

 

You talk about cherry-picking stats, but then you go and combine his entire career stats to say that he ain't that good. I don't give a sheet what he did 10 years ago in Seattle . . . I care about what he is capable of NOW.

 

 

 

 

he can play anywhere in the OF

not well. soriano "can" player anywhere in the of too

 

Soriano also plays the TRAINER'S TABLE well. How 'bout this . . . Dome in RF, Reed in CF, Soriano on DL & Winn in LF . . . sounds like a pretty reasonable expectation if we did get Winn.

 

 

 

 

and hit anywhere in the lineup.

anyone can. it's been shown that lineup contruction is close to meaningless. there are tools where you can check that out.

 

Ahem . . . Soriano . . .just for ONE c.i.p. And why don't we just move the pitcher's spot up to #3 while we're at it. Then, slide ARam into the 2 hole. Theriot hits 4th. Let's see how well that lineup does.

You look at all your generic mumbo jumbo discombobulated garbage manipulated by some bookworm to make a name for himself and prove an irrelevant point by lumping all players into 1 being, as what becomes the most mathematically flawed concept of an AVERAGE - I'll look at REAL LIFE examples. And I don't need to check it out . . . YOU are the only tool for me.

 

 

 

winn career day games- .270 .338 .386 .724

winn career night games- .296 .350 .442 .792

so he's actually significantly worse in day games. i don't know why that matters anyways.

 

Same thing - he isn't exactly the same player he was 10 years ago.

 

 

 

 

b) even last year (the year you're referencing), you just cherry picked OBP and ignored his other stats. he had a high obp, but you left out that he had a .389 slugging percentage (.446 at night). his ops was 25 points lower in day games. again, it doesn't matter, but your argument wasn't even correct.

 

You value power. I value getting on base, keeping an inning going, taking pitches to make the pitcher work, making contact to make the defense work, running fast and hard every time, knowing that you don't have to win the game in 1 swing because you have guys like Soto and Dero coming up next, striking out less than 10% of AB. I don't care about things like OPS as much as you do. I'm tired of relying on the HR or the 1 big hit. I'll take a team of Ichiro's or over a team of Howards or Dunns or Sosas, etc . . . anyday. It would be nice to land a guy that can do it all, but there just aren't that many out there and none that seem to be available to the Cubs. So I ask you AGAIN, smart guy, who would YOU like to have in RF? ANSWER THE QUESTION ! ! ! ! !

 

 

 

 

like i said, i'd rather give fontenot a full time job than waste money on winn. fontenot's career ops is now .826, which is higher than winn has EVER put up in a full season. granted those numbers are a little bit skewed since fontenot has been platooned...but still, i'd be willing to bet he could match winn's high .700's OPS and wouldn't cost 8.25 million to do it.

 

I like Font, as I said already. I want him to be our full time 2B. REALITY is that Lou IS NOT going to do that. He wants Dero at 2B and he wants a LH RF. This is not news . . . well, I guess it is OLD news . . . but get over it. Shoot, I would them to see if Font can play CF. I said that last winter. Problem is, it just ain't gonna happen. Maybe Girardi might've tried these options, but Lou isn't. So, let's here you solution for RF . . . .

 

 

 

not really a surprise that you come from cubs.com

 

I know you're not, because most of the people on this MB did come from there, YOU INCLUDED . . . you really got me there.

[jersey cubs fan]

He turns 35 this year and is mediocre, no thanks.

[imb]

what a post

[8654]

He turns 35 this year and is mediocre, no thanks.

 

Even if trading his salary for Marquis' and one or 2 others' (i.e. Cedeno and Gaudin or Weurtz) would mean we don't have to spend $10 mil on some marginally better FA for 3 - 4 years, like Abreu or Ibanez (and lose draft picks)? To pay one of their salaries in addition to Marquis'? And maybe have to just release Gaudin? And definitely not get Peavy?

 

 

Lou & JH are set on acquiring a LH RF who has proven he can hit MLB pitching - the question is who? It doesn't seem as if Hoff or Font are candidates. That leaves the names mentioned above as far as I know. I think I'd rather take a chance with Winn and Peavy instead of Marquis & Ibanez (or Abreu or Teahen) - call me crazy. Remember that we're only talking about 1 season with him vs. 3 - 4 with Ibanez or Abreu, but we are also talking about having the best rotation in MLB for at least the next 2 years.

[17 Seconds]

i don't think most people here want to waste money on abreu or ibanez either, so i don't see why you keep saying that we have to get one of those 3 guys. i don't want any of those guys. winn would be a waste of payroll space considering it's arguable if he's even better than fontenot.

[inari]

Abreu and Ibanez aren't marginally better than Winn. They're much better.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Everyone is better than Ibanez. Felix Pie is better than Ibanez.

[Vanilla Ice]

i think my foe list rivals anyones here.

 

Mine is pretty vanilla. Just the nine loudest idiots.

:(

[Derwood]

Meph speaks the truth

[8654]

i don't think most people here want to waste money on abreu or ibanez either, so i don't see why you keep saying that we have to get one of those 3 guys. i don't want any of those guys. winn would be a waste of payroll space considering it's arguable if he's even better than fontenot.

 

 

So who do we want to waste money on? I don't know of any options that wouldn't equate to wasting money except to stand pat or promote from within. Lou & JH seem intent on not using Hoff or Font or any other current Cub in RF. Seems to me we will waste money on somebody. Like I said, please tell me if you've heard any other names mentioned or have any other ideas.

 

And if we want Peavy, we absolutely have to move Marquis. No way around it. Moving him will mean taking on somebody else's contract because of the economy. The only place to take on a contract is RF or the pen. If we trade Marquis for a reliever, we still can't get Peavy because we still have to sign 1 of these bottom-of-the-barrell FA RF's.

 

What it all comes down to is that if we want Peavy, we will have to settle for a less than spectacular RF via trade. Do you want Teahen? I don't. What other RF are available via trade? I threw Winn out there because he is in his last year of contract and SF isn't gonna go anywhere with him in RF. WE, on the other hand, COULD win with him because the rest of our team is pretty darn good, especially if we have a rotation of Peavy, Demp, Z, Harden & Lilly and a CF of Dome and Reed (& possibly Pie) to make up for the defense of Soriano & Winn. I want Peavy.

[Clem Fandango]

So who wants to take a flier on Brad Wilkerson?

 

Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?

[8654]

So who wants to take a flier on Brad Wilkerson?

 

Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?

 

 

Maybe JD Drew has fallen out of favor in Boston this winter. Maybe Ichiro's rumored attitude has grown old in Seattle. Maybe LA has finally decided to let Willits go to a team where he can play everyday.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'd still like to see how much it would take to get a Baldelli/DeRosa/Fontenot for 2B/RF combo.

[BigbadB]

I'd still like to see how much it would take to get a Baldelli/DeRosa/Fontenot for 2B/RF combo.

 

Baldelli only hits from the right side. Hendry seems to be targeting someone he can fit between Lee and Ramirez.

[17 Seconds]

i don't think most people here want to waste money on abreu or ibanez either, so i don't see why you keep saying that we have to get one of those 3 guys. i don't want any of those guys. winn would be a waste of payroll space considering it's arguable if he's even better than fontenot.

 

 

So who do we want to waste money on? I don't know of any options that wouldn't equate to wasting money except to stand pat or promote from within. Lou & JH seem intent on not using Hoff or Font or any other current Cub in RF. Seems to me we will waste money on somebody. Like I said, please tell me if you've heard any other names mentioned or have any other ideas.

 

And if we want Peavy, we absolutely have to move Marquis. No way around it. Moving him will mean taking on somebody else's contract because of the economy. The only place to take on a contract is RF or the pen. If we trade Marquis for a reliever, we still can't get Peavy because we still have to sign 1 of these bottom-of-the-barrell FA RF's.

 

What it all comes down to is that if we want Peavy, we will have to settle for a less than spectacular RF via trade. Do you want Teahen? I don't. What other RF are available via trade? I threw Winn out there because he is in his last year of contract and SF isn't gonna go anywhere with him in RF. WE, on the other hand, COULD win with him because the rest of our team is pretty darn good, especially if we have a rotation of Peavy, Demp, Z, Harden & Lilly and a CF of Dome and Reed (& possibly Pie) to make up for the defense of Soriano & Winn. I want Peavy.

 

I have no idea who I would realistically want, because there is no way of me knowing who is avilable. I'm not a GM and I can't talk to other GMs. All I know if that Winn is a lateral move and is not really an upgrade over what we have. Like I said, I'd rather see what Fontenot could do over a full season and put DeRosa in right than pay Winn 8.5 million to put up a .780 OPS.

 

Also, I don't really see what Peavy has to do with this. Winn makes 8.25 million next year. I'd imagine guys like Ibanez and Abreu (who I don't want by the way, but you keep mentioning their names) will get around 10 mil. Is that extra 2 mil or so really going to cost us Peavy? If anything, I'd think you'd NOT want Winn if you think payroll issues will affect getting Peavy. That's 8.25 million spent on a .790 OPS when we could already get that out of Fontenot. The bottom line is that Winn is not very good. If he was making like 2 million next year and we could have him for dirt cheap, then maybe. But 8.25 million? That's a big waste of the rest of our already tight budget.

[8654]

i don't think most people here want to waste money on abreu or ibanez either, so i don't see why you keep saying that we have to get one of those 3 guys. i don't want any of those guys. winn would be a waste of payroll space considering it's arguable if he's even better than fontenot.

 

 

So who do we want to waste money on? I don't know of any options that wouldn't equate to wasting money except to stand pat or promote from within. Lou & JH seem intent on not using Hoff or Font or any other current Cub in RF. Seems to me we will waste money on somebody. Like I said, please tell me if you've heard any other names mentioned or have any other ideas.

 

And if we want Peavy, we absolutely have to move Marquis. No way around it. Moving him will mean taking on somebody else's contract because of the economy. The only place to take on a contract is RF or the pen. If we trade Marquis for a reliever, we still can't get Peavy because we still have to sign 1 of these bottom-of-the-barrell FA RF's.

 

What it all comes down to is that if we want Peavy, we will have to settle for a less than spectacular RF via trade. Do you want Teahen? I don't. What other RF are available via trade? I threw Winn out there because he is in his last year of contract and SF isn't gonna go anywhere with him in RF. WE, on the other hand, COULD win with him because the rest of our team is pretty darn good, especially if we have a rotation of Peavy, Demp, Z, Harden & Lilly and a CF of Dome and Reed (& possibly Pie) to make up for the defense of Soriano & Winn. I want Peavy.

 

I have no idea who I would realistically want, because there is no way of me knowing who is avilable. I'm not a GM and I can't talk to other GMs. All I know if that Winn is a lateral move and is not really an upgrade over what we have. Like I said, I'd rather see what Fontenot could do over a full season and put DeRosa in right than pay Winn 8.5 million to put up a .780 OPS.

 

Also, I don't really see what Peavy has to do with this. Winn makes 8.25 million next year. I'd imagine guys like Ibanez and Abreu (who I don't want by the way, but you keep mentioning their names) will get around 10 mil. Is that extra 2 mil or so really going to cost us Peavy? If anything, I'd think you'd NOT want Winn if you think payroll issues will affect getting Peavy. That's 8.25 million spent on a .790 OPS when we could already get that out of Fontenot. The bottom line is that Winn is not very good. If he was making like 2 million next year and we could have him for dirt cheap, then maybe. But 8.25 million? That's a big waste of the rest of our already tight budget.

 

 

I like the idea of Font playing full time also. Problem is the rumor that Dero would refuse to play RF except occasionally. He signed with us in conjunction with a gentlemen's promise w/ JH to be our full-time 2B. Maybe Font is athletic enough to learn to play RF. I sure would like to find out. I'd rather stay in-house until we see how Dome responds this year, especially if it means allocating resources toward Peavy instead of RF. For all we know, Dome's light bulb could go on & could have an MVP season this year. Also, sure would blow to sign 1 of these FA RF for 3 years when Vlad will be a FA next year.

 

As far as the salary thing with signing/trading for a RF, you are only adding just $2 mil ONLY IF you simultaneously unload Marquis' contract. If you can't trade Marquis, you are adding the entire salary of the RF. If we don't get Peavy, we pretty much have to keep Marquis, wouldn't you agree? Then we are paying Marquis PLUS the RF. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure we can't afford Peavy, Marquis and an $8 - $10 mil RF. So yes, if my understanding of the '09 budget is correct, we have to unload Marquis if we want Peavy (we also need the roster spot). Do you think any team is going to take on his contract w/out giving us a similar one in return? It would effectively be moving 1 bad contract for an average player from the rotation to RF instead of having 2 bad contracts (Marquis AND a RF - like Abreu for 3yrs x $9 mil). It's possible that we could trade Marquis & pick up almost 1/2 of his contract, like is the current rumor, but would it still be possible to bring on Peavy and a RF other than Teahen (which would mean bye-bye Font)?

 

I'm not saying Winn is my first choice for RF. I'm saying trading Marquis for someone like Winn would facilitate the Peavy trade and provide an adequate stop-gap in RF for 1 year until something better comes along or until Dome figures things out. I'd much rather do that instead of be stuck with the alternatives & maybe not get Peavy. The way I see it, there are no good external options for RF at this time, but you have to take off the RF blinders & look at the big picture of the entire team & how making one move will affect everything else.

 

And I keep saying certain names because those are the apparent options on the table. Just cause we don't like those options don't mean they aren't the options. I'm not going to ignore them just cause I don't like them. I'm trying to think of other options & weigh them against the current ones. That's what this thread was meant to be about. What is the lesser of the evils?

[CP_414]

i don't think most people here want to waste money on abreu or ibanez either, so i don't see why you keep saying that we have to get one of those 3 guys. i don't want any of those guys. winn would be a waste of payroll space considering it's arguable if he's even better than fontenot.

 

 

So who do we want to waste money on? I don't know of any options that wouldn't equate to wasting money except to stand pat or promote from within. Lou & JH seem intent on not using Hoff or Font or any other current Cub in RF. Seems to me we will waste money on somebody. Like I said, please tell me if you've heard any other names mentioned or have any other ideas.

 

And if we want Peavy, we absolutely have to move Marquis. No way around it. Moving him will mean taking on somebody else's contract because of the economy. The only place to take on a contract is RF or the pen. If we trade Marquis for a reliever, we still can't get Peavy because we still have to sign 1 of these bottom-of-the-barrell FA RF's.

 

What it all comes down to is that if we want Peavy, we will have to settle for a less than spectacular RF via trade. Do you want Teahen? I don't. What other RF are available via trade? I threw Winn out there because he is in his last year of contract and SF isn't gonna go anywhere with him in RF. WE, on the other hand, COULD win with him because the rest of our team is pretty darn good, especially if we have a rotation of Peavy, Demp, Z, Harden & Lilly and a CF of Dome and Reed (& possibly Pie) to make up for the defense of Soriano & Winn. I want Peavy.

 

I have no idea who I would realistically want, because there is no way of me knowing who is avilable. I'm not a GM and I can't talk to other GMs. All I know if that Winn is a lateral move and is not really an upgrade over what we have. Like I said, I'd rather see what Fontenot could do over a full season and put DeRosa in right than pay Winn 8.5 million to put up a .780 OPS.

 

Also, I don't really see what Peavy has to do with this. Winn makes 8.25 million next year. I'd imagine guys like Ibanez and Abreu (who I don't want by the way, but you keep mentioning their names) will get around 10 mil. Is that extra 2 mil or so really going to cost us Peavy? If anything, I'd think you'd NOT want Winn if you think payroll issues will affect getting Peavy. That's 8.25 million spent on a .790 OPS when we could already get that out of Fontenot. The bottom line is that Winn is not very good. If he was making like 2 million next year and we could have him for dirt cheap, then maybe. But 8.25 million? That's a big waste of the rest of our already tight budget.

 

 

I like the idea of Font playing full time also. Problem is the rumor that Dero would refuse to play RF except occasionally. He signed with us in conjunction with a gentlemen's promise w/ JH to be our full-time 2B. Maybe Font is athletic enough to learn to play RF. I sure would like to find out. I'd rather stay in-house until we see how Dome responds this year, especially if it means allocating resources toward Peavy instead of RF. For all we know, Dome's light bulb could go on & could have an MVP season this year. Also, sure would blow to sign 1 of these FA RF for 3 years when Vlad will be a FA next year.

 

As far as the salary thing with signing/trading for a RF, you are only adding just $2 mil ONLY IF you simultaneously unload Marquis' contract. If you can't trade Marquis, you are adding the entire salary of the RF. If we don't get Peavy, we pretty much have to keep Marquis, wouldn't you agree? Then we are paying Marquis PLUS the RF. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure we can't afford Peavy, Marquis and an $8 - $10 mil RF. So yes, if my understanding of the '09 budget is correct, we have to unload Marquis if we want Peavy (we also need the roster spot). Do you think any team is going to take on his contract w/out giving us a similar one in return? It would effectively be moving 1 bad contract for an average player from the rotation to RF instead of having 2 bad contracts (Marquis AND a RF - like Abreu for 3yrs x $9 mil). It's possible that we could trade Marquis & pick up almost 1/2 of his contract, like is the current rumor, but would it still be possible to bring on Peavy and a RF other than Teahen (which would mean bye-bye Font)?

 

I'm not saying Winn is my first choice for RF. I'm saying trading Marquis for someone like Winn would facilitate the Peavy trade and provide an adequate stop-gap in RF for 1 year until something better comes along or until Dome figures things out. I'd much rather do that instead of be stuck with the alternatives & maybe not get Peavy. The way I see it, there are no good external options for RF at this time, but you have to take off the RF blinders & look at the big picture of the entire team & how making one move will affect everything else.

 

And I keep saying certain names because those are the apparent options on the table. Just cause we don't like those options don't mean they aren't the options. I'm not going to ignore them just cause I don't like them. I'm trying to think of other options & weigh them against the current ones. That's what this thread was meant to be about. What is the lesser of the evils?

 

Not true.

[8654]

i don't think most people here want to waste money on abreu or ibanez either, so i don't see why you keep saying that we have to get one of those 3 guys. i don't want any of those guys. winn would be a waste of payroll space considering it's arguable if he's even better than fontenot.

 

 

So who do we want to waste money on? I don't know of any options that wouldn't equate to wasting money except to stand pat or promote from within. Lou & JH seem intent on not using Hoff or Font or any other current Cub in RF. Seems to me we will waste money on somebody. Like I said, please tell me if you've heard any other names mentioned or have any other ideas.

 

And if we want Peavy, we absolutely have to move Marquis. No way around it. Moving him will mean taking on somebody else's contract because of the economy. The only place to take on a contract is RF or the pen. If we trade Marquis for a reliever, we still can't get Peavy because we still have to sign 1 of these bottom-of-the-barrell FA RF's.

 

What it all comes down to is that if we want Peavy, we will have to settle for a less than spectacular RF via trade. Do you want Teahen? I don't. What other RF are available via trade? I threw Winn out there because he is in his last year of contract and SF isn't gonna go anywhere with him in RF. WE, on the other hand, COULD win with him because the rest of our team is pretty darn good, especially if we have a rotation of Peavy, Demp, Z, Harden & Lilly and a CF of Dome and Reed (& possibly Pie) to make up for the defense of Soriano & Winn. I want Peavy.

 

I have no idea who I would realistically want, because there is no way of me knowing who is avilable. I'm not a GM and I can't talk to other GMs. All I know if that Winn is a lateral move and is not really an upgrade over what we have. Like I said, I'd rather see what Fontenot could do over a full season and put DeRosa in right than pay Winn 8.5 million to put up a .780 OPS.

 

Also, I don't really see what Peavy has to do with this. Winn makes 8.25 million next year. I'd imagine guys like Ibanez and Abreu (who I don't want by the way, but you keep mentioning their names) will get around 10 mil. Is that extra 2 mil or so really going to cost us Peavy? If anything, I'd think you'd NOT want Winn if you think payroll issues will affect getting Peavy. That's 8.25 million spent on a .790 OPS when we could already get that out of Fontenot. The bottom line is that Winn is not very good. If he was making like 2 million next year and we could have him for dirt cheap, then maybe. But 8.25 million? That's a big waste of the rest of our already tight budget.

 

 

I like the idea of Font playing full time also. Problem is the rumor that Dero would refuse to play RF except occasionally. He signed with us in conjunction with a gentlemen's promise w/ JH to be our full-time 2B. Maybe Font is athletic enough to learn to play RF. I sure would like to find out. I'd rather stay in-house until we see how Dome responds this year, especially if it means allocating resources toward Peavy instead of RF. For all we know, Dome's light bulb could go on & could have an MVP season this year. Also, sure would blow to sign 1 of these FA RF for 3 years when Vlad will be a FA next year.

 

As far as the salary thing with signing/trading for a RF, you are only adding just $2 mil ONLY IF you simultaneously unload Marquis' contract. If you can't trade Marquis, you are adding the entire salary of the RF. If we don't get Peavy, we pretty much have to keep Marquis, wouldn't you agree? Then we are paying Marquis PLUS the RF. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure we can't afford Peavy, Marquis and an $8 - $10 mil RF. So yes, if my understanding of the '09 budget is correct, we have to unload Marquis if we want Peavy (we also need the roster spot). Do you think any team is going to take on his contract w/out giving us a similar one in return? It would effectively be moving 1 bad contract for an average player from the rotation to RF instead of having 2 bad contracts (Marquis AND a RF - like Abreu for 3yrs x $9 mil). It's possible that we could trade Marquis & pick up almost 1/2 of his contract, like is the current rumor, but would it still be possible to bring on Peavy and a RF other than Teahen (which would mean bye-bye Font)?

 

I'm not saying Winn is my first choice for RF. I'm saying trading Marquis for someone like Winn would facilitate the Peavy trade and provide an adequate stop-gap in RF for 1 year until something better comes along or until Dome figures things out. I'd much rather do that instead of be stuck with the alternatives & maybe not get Peavy. The way I see it, there are no good external options for RF at this time, but you have to take off the RF blinders & look at the big picture of the entire team & how making one move will affect everything else.

 

And I keep saying certain names because those are the apparent options on the table. Just cause we don't like those options don't mean they aren't the options. I'm not going to ignore them just cause I don't like them. I'm trying to think of other options & weigh them against the current ones. That's what this thread was meant to be about. What is the lesser of the evils?

 

Not true.

 

 

Him signing with us with the understanding that he would be our full-time 2B is fact. This was well documented in the media at the time - by Dero AND Hendry. He chose us over other teams because JH promised him 2B, just like Dome chose us because JH promised him RF while other teams wanted him in CF. So far Dome hasn't live up to his end of the deal, Dero has.

 

The rumor of him refusing RF full-time may or may not be true - hence the term RUMOR. I think most of us would be fine w/ Font @ 2B & Dero in RF. That is easily the best course of action available to us (considering all angles of the options available). That LH RF bat they want just doesn't seem to be there. So why does Font/Dero not seem to be an option as far as Lou & JH are concerned? Could that rumor POSSIBLY be true? There's probably about 5 people who know that for sure & neither you nor me are 1 of them.

[17 Seconds]

I like the idea of Font playing full time also. Problem is the rumor that Dero would refuse to play RF except occasionally. He signed with us in conjunction with a gentlemen's promise w/ JH to be our full-time 2B.

 

Don't you remember last year during the Roberts stuff when DeRosa said that he didn't care where he played, as long as he was in the lineup? Anyways, it doesn't really matter. He'll play where he is told to play.

 

when Vlad will be a FA next year.

 

As far as the salary thing with signing/trading for a RF, you are only adding just $2 mil ONLY IF you simultaneously unload Marquis' contract.

 

I don't understand that logic. Unloading Marquis and adding Winn are 2 completely seperate things. If we unload 6 mil of Marquis then that's done. It does not rely on Winn, so adding Winn would simply be adding 8.25 of payroll space.

 

If we don't get Peavy, we pretty much have to keep Marquis, wouldn't you agree?

 

No, why? I'd rather have Marshall start anyways. Everything that's been written so far this offseason has said that the Cubs will be trying to dump Marquis no matter what, even if Peavy is no longer an option.

 

Do you think any team is going to take on his contract w/out giving us a similar one in return?

 

The point of eating like 4 mil of his salary is so we don't have to take anything back.

 

 

I'd much rather do that instead of be stuck with the alternatives & maybe not get Peavy. The way I see it, there are no good external options for RF at this time, but you have to take off the RF blinders & look at the big picture of the entire team & how making one move will affect everything else.

 

I don't get why you keep saying this. Winn and Peavy have NOTHING to do with each other. N-o-t-h-i-n-g. If anything, it would hurt it since that's 8.25 mil of cap space wasted on a player that is not very good. Seriously, Winn is not an adequate nothing. He's a sub .800 OPS guy, come on. He is not an upgrade to what we have. He is a waste of money, plain and simple.

 

I just don't understand why you're acting like we HAVE to add one of these overpaid right fielders, and I don't understand why you think Peavy has anything to do with Winn.