Could Gaudin be non tendered?

[UK1679666180]

Who is going to pitch out of the pen this year?

 

So far we've let Howry and Wood leave, we are talking about non-tendering Gaudin and Marshall might go in a Peavy trade.

 

Marmol

Gagg - I mean Gregg

Samardzija

Cotts

Guzman?

Wuertz

Ascanio?

 

 

 

Marquis and Marshall? Maybe? I'm still crossing my fingers that JH brings Wood back. He would make all the difference, wouldn't he?

 

Since the Cubs non-tendered him, he can't be signed till May.

MLB updated that rule in the latest agreement. They still have a window to sign him.

 

Eh, I hate changes.

 

Man, even I knew that Ping.

 

I'm definitely not a baseball savant.

[Rob]

Gaudin wont be non-tendered... I'd guess Wuertz probably will be, though.

[cubsfan26]

Gaudin wont be non-tendered... I'd guess Wuertz probably will be, though.

 

I still think Wuertz has some trade value to get something in return. So I think he will end up getting traded for some midlevel prospect.

[NCCubFan]

I refuse to believe there's even the slightest possibility that Gaudin would be non-tendered (unless there's a secret injury issue that we don't know about).

[Butterscup1679666578]

boy, this offseason has the potential to be a complete disaster.

[CUBZ99]

People are up in arms about non tendering a relief pitcher with a career 1.52 WHIP, who walks a lot of batters, allows over a hit an inning over his career, and doesn't strike out many hitters?

[BigbadB]

People are up in arms about non tendering a relief pitcher with a career 1.52 WHIP, who walks a lot of batters, allows over a hit an inning over his career, and doesn't strike out many hitters?

 

I think they are up in arms with the potential of losing yet another bullpen arm, and the lack of depth and available spending money to replenish the pen. Just since the trade deadline, we've watched Eyre, Howry, Wood, Gallagher and Ceda go bye bye, and Marshall and Veal may be next. That's not to say we aren't all happy about Howry going away or Gallagher netting us Harden. But, the lack of pitching depth is going to force Samardzija to go back to the rotation in Iowa, which means another lost bullpen arm. How many can this team really absorb before the pen becomes a complete disaster?

 

What's left?

Marmol

Gregg

Wuertz

Guzman

Cotts

Ascanio

Hart

Fox

 

Gaudin might not be great, but I'd much rather keep him than count on Fox's arm to stay attached at the shoulder. Guzman isn't exactly a gleaming picture of health, either.

[17 Seconds]

People are up in arms about non tendering a relief pitcher with a career 1.52 WHIP, who walks a lot of batters, allows over a hit an inning over his career, and doesn't strike out many hitters?

 

people are up in arms over non tendering a guy who is 25 years old, cheap, can start or relieve, and has kept his era under 4.5 for the past 3 years

 

gaudin isn't great, but he has good value...... especially to a team with rich harden in their rotation

[CUBZ99]

People are up in arms about non tendering a relief pitcher with a career 1.52 WHIP, who walks a lot of batters, allows over a hit an inning over his career, and doesn't strike out many hitters?

 

people are up in arms over non tendering a guy who is 25 years old, cheap, can start or relieve, and has kept his era under 4.5 for the past 3 years

 

gaudin isn't great, but he has good value...... especially to a team with rich harden in their rotation

 

Gaudin doesn't have good value. He is due to earn over $2MM for a reliever that puts up terrible numbers.

 

Many people considered Howry to have a terrible year last year, but Howry's WHIP and K/BB ratio were actually better than Gaudin's career numbers.

[17 Seconds]

People are up in arms about non tendering a relief pitcher with a career 1.52 WHIP, who walks a lot of batters, allows over a hit an inning over his career, and doesn't strike out many hitters?

 

people are up in arms over non tendering a guy who is 25 years old, cheap, can start or relieve, and has kept his era under 4.5 for the past 3 years

 

gaudin isn't great, but he has good value...... especially to a team with rich harden in their rotation

 

Gaudin doesn't have good value. He is due to earn over $2MM for a reliever that puts up terrible numbers.

 

Many people considered Howry to have a terrible year last year, but Howry's WHIP and K/BB ratio were actually better than Gaudin's career numbers.

]

i just showed you why he has good value. he's not just a reliever. he's a reliever who can start. that gives him value.

 

plus, even though his peripherals might look bad, he has shown for 3 straight years that he can keep his era under 4.50 while bouncing between the rotation and bullpen. that always has value, especially when we have at least one guy in our rotation who is basically guaranteed to miss a chunk of start (i already said this, you're just ignoring it and pretending he's just a reliever). you can't make a blanket statement like "his numbers are terrible" when his era has been fine for 3 straight years.

 

plus he's only 25 and should get better

[ChiCubsFan]

People are up in arms about non tendering a relief pitcher with a career 1.52 WHIP, who walks a lot of batters, allows over a hit an inning over his career, and doesn't strike out many hitters?

 

people are up in arms over non tendering a guy who is 25 years old, cheap, can start or relieve, and has kept his era under 4.5 for the past 3 years

 

gaudin isn't great, but he has good value...... especially to a team with rich harden in their rotation

 

Gaudin doesn't have good value. He is due to earn over $2MM for a reliever that puts up terrible numbers.

 

Many people considered Howry to have a terrible year last year, but Howry's WHIP and K/BB ratio were actually better than Gaudin's career numbers.

]

i just showed you why he has good value. he's not just a reliever. he's a reliever who can start. that gives him value.

 

plus, even though his peripherals might look bad, he has shown for 3 straight years that he can keep his era under 4.50 while bouncing between the rotation and bullpen. that always has value, especially when we have at least one guy in our rotation who is basically guaranteed to miss a chunk of start (i already said this, you're just ignoring it and pretending he's just a reliever). you can't make a blanket statement like "his numbers are terrible" when his era has been fine for 3 straight years.

 

plus he's only 25 and should get better

 

To be fair, ERA isn't a great way to judge a pitcher and an even worse way to judge a pitcher who pitches in relief a lot. That said, I think Gaudin does provide a good amount of value and I agree with you that he especially provides value to a team with a SP who is very likely to miss quite a few starts.

[cubsfan26]

Gaudin probably won't be non-tendered, this is just Paul Sullivan thinking it's possible. I'm sure Paul doesn't have any actual information about this happening. Gaudin will probably only get a small raise since he didn't have a good year and was mostly a reliever. So I doubt Hendry would non-tender a young guy who can start or pitch out of the pen for us. Personally I think Gaudin is a solid pitcher, especially as a reliever. Last year he sucked in September, but I don't think he was 100 percent when he returned from the DL. Plus like everybody mentioned Hendry isn't gonna take away anymore bullpen depth.

 

Marshall- could be in the rotation if Harden is hurt

Samardzija- might be starting in Iowa

Guzman- unproven and health issues

Wuertz- we all know that he's not one of Lou favorites

Cotts- not that good, probably will add another LH reliever cheap

Ascanio- 5 plus ERA in Triple A last year

 

If you take away Gaudin from that mix it's really risky. So I don't see these guys pushing Gaudin off the roster, unless they trade Gaudin for another reliever.

[Clem Fandango]

Don't forget about Kevin Hart, he's the secret weapon (to failure)

[cubsfan26]

The funny thing is Sullivan brings up non tendering Gaudin, but in the same article he's quoting Lou talking about how Gaudin is in their plans for next year.

 

"Well, we have Cotts and we have Marshall," Piniella said. "I thought they did a very representative job last year. Marshall, this will be the second year [working out of the pen], so he should be more acclimated. From the right side, we picked up Gregg from the Marlins, but we're going to have to have a guy like [Chad] Gaudin pitch well for us. And [Kevin] Hart, [ Angel] Guzman … we're going to have some young people who are going to have to come through for us too."

 

Now Mike Wuertz isn't mentioned at all, so there's probably a decent chance he's gone. I still think they will end up trading Wuertz, because I don't see his trade value being much worse then Ohman's was a year ago. So if they don't want him back I don't think they will have to non tender him. Personally I hope he's back but if he's making over 1m next year, I can see the Cubs getting rid of his salary.

[17 Seconds]

People are up in arms about non tendering a relief pitcher with a career 1.52 WHIP, who walks a lot of batters, allows over a hit an inning over his career, and doesn't strike out many hitters?

 

people are up in arms over non tendering a guy who is 25 years old, cheap, can start or relieve, and has kept his era under 4.5 for the past 3 years

 

gaudin isn't great, but he has good value...... especially to a team with rich harden in their rotation

 

Gaudin doesn't have good value. He is due to earn over $2MM for a reliever that puts up terrible numbers.

 

Many people considered Howry to have a terrible year last year, but Howry's WHIP and K/BB ratio were actually better than Gaudin's career numbers.

]

i just showed you why he has good value. he's not just a reliever. he's a reliever who can start. that gives him value.

 

plus, even though his peripherals might look bad, he has shown for 3 straight years that he can keep his era under 4.50 while bouncing between the rotation and bullpen. that always has value, especially when we have at least one guy in our rotation who is basically guaranteed to miss a chunk of start (i already said this, you're just ignoring it and pretending he's just a reliever). you can't make a blanket statement like "his numbers are terrible" when his era has been fine for 3 straight years.

 

plus he's only 25 and should get better

 

To be fair, ERA isn't a great way to judge a pitcher and an even worse way to judge a pitcher who pitches in relief a lot. That said, I think Gaudin does provide a good amount of value and I agree with you that he especially provides value to a team with a SP who is very likely to miss quite a few starts.

 

i agree with you on era, and that's why i was trying to word it correctly. my point was that he's been able to sustain an era under 4.5 for 3 years in a row now, so he should be able to continue that

[erik316wttn]

How quickly we turn.

 

When we traded for Harden, there were a ton of people on here stating how Gaudin was treated as a throw-in, but actually was a huge steal. Now we want to see him gone. Was he really that terrible in a few months that he's not deserving of another chance?

[ChiCubsFan]

How quickly we turn.

 

When we traded for Harden, there were a ton of people on here stating how Gaudin was treated as a throw-in, but actually was a huge steal. Now we want to see him gone. Was he really that terrible in a few months that he's not deserving of another chance?

 

By "we" you mean the one person who was saying he doesn't have value? I think the majority of us want to see him on the team next year.

[Jehrico]

How quickly we turn.

 

When we traded for Harden, there were a ton of people on here stating how Gaudin was treated as a throw-in, but actually was a huge steal. Now we want to see him gone. Was he really that terrible in a few months that he's not deserving of another chance?

I still think he was more of a steal than a throw in. If Shark and Ascanio start in AAA, he'll be the youngest guy on the team. Gaudin's biggest problem was he came up in Tampa when they were horrible, and he was forced up to the majors too early. Tampa burned all of his options before he got out of there. You can't really judge the guy on his career numbers straight up. You have to judge him like any other prospect...was he age appropriate for his level, and if not, you have to compensate one way or another. A lot of his peers will be making thier debuts or will be in their second seasons this year. If he weren't in TB to begin his career, no one would be talking about his horrible "career" WHIPs and what not.

[Tracer Bullet]

People are up in arms about non tendering a relief pitcher with a career 1.52 WHIP, who walks a lot of batters, allows over a hit an inning over his career, and doesn't strike out many hitters?

 

people are up in arms over non tendering a guy who is 25 years old, cheap, can start or relieve, and has kept his era under 4.5 for the past 3 years

 

gaudin isn't great, but he has good value...... especially to a team with rich harden in their rotation

 

Gaudin doesn't have good value. He is due to earn over $2MM for a reliever that puts up terrible numbers.

 

Many people considered Howry to have a terrible year last year, but Howry's WHIP and K/BB ratio were actually better than Gaudin's career numbers.

]

i just showed you why he has good value. he's not just a reliever. he's a reliever who can start. that gives him value.

 

plus, even though his peripherals might look bad, he has shown for 3 straight years that he can keep his era under 4.50 while bouncing between the rotation and bullpen. that always has value, especially when we have at least one guy in our rotation who is basically guaranteed to miss a chunk of start (i already said this, you're just ignoring it and pretending he's just a reliever). you can't make a blanket statement like "his numbers are terrible" when his era has been fine for 3 straight years.

 

plus he's only 25 and should get better

 

To be fair, ERA isn't a great way to judge a pitcher and an even worse way to judge a pitcher who pitches in relief a lot. That said, I think Gaudin does provide a good amount of value and I agree with you that he especially provides value to a team with a SP who is very likely to miss quite a few starts.

 

but WHIP is where we should solely focus attention?

[Backtobanks]

Chill out people, it's Paul Sullivan for goodness sakes. Next thing you know, you'll believe what Phil Rogers has written too.

[Colin Wyers]

To be fair, ERA isn't a great way to judge a pitcher and an even worse way to judge a pitcher who pitches in relief a lot. That said, I think Gaudin does provide a good amount of value and I agree with you that he especially provides value to a team with a SP who is very likely to miss quite a few starts.

 

Sure, ERA's not perfect. I can name only, oh, 10-20 things wrong with it.

 

But, well, all of them are also true about WHIP. And there's something like another 10 things wrong with WHIP that aren't wrong with ERA.

 

The biggest problem with ERA is that pitchers do not have a large spread in talent for preventing hits on balls in play - it's largely the responsibility of the team's defense.

 

So let's use WHIP instead, which is even MORE reliant on hits to evaluate a pitcher! And doesn't give any credit to pitchers that strike out lots of batters and allow fewer home runs, which means that their score rate is lower! This sounds like a fantastic idea.

[Mephistopheles]

Well, for a reliever, WHIP is more important than ERA, since they come in fairly often with runners on base.

[YearofDaCubs]

I never understood why Wuertz was never used by Lou. I'm not saying Wuertz is perfect but he was a quality reliever for us in the past and even though he had his moments where he was sucking for us I still feel Lou could have used him better and got a lot more out of him.

[Colin Wyers]

Well, for a reliever, WHIP is more important than ERA, since they come in fairly often with runners on base.

 

To the extent that WHIP correlates with high-K and low-BB rates, sure. But we can figure out a pitcher's K and BB rates. We don't need WHIP. The extra information that WHIP contains - BABIP - over those two is not a very good measure of pitcher skill.

[Mephistopheles]

The point of WHIP (and ERA) are to consolidate a pitchers talent or production into one concise stat that's relatively easy to compute on the fly and explain to the common fan. The point isn't for it to be the most advanced indicator of talent level. It has its uses as a gateway stat. That being said, it's also a better gauge on production for a reliever than ERA since it's going to map more accurately to runs bequeathed.

 

There's also more randomness attributed to what some call 'luck' in ERA. You have the randomness with BABIP, but then you have the randomness with pitching success in clutch situations, ie runners on base. WHIP has no such problems.