Week 11: Bears @ Packers, Sunday at noon on Fox

[Guest]

Either way, Corey Graham should be getting more reps than Vasher right now.

[UK1679666180]

The 'mug look'. I was in and out today but yeah from what i saw it didnt look like they were in it all that much. I don't think that has hurt them in the passing game, more of combination of lack of pressure and zone coverage. But lets assume that was the reason they were good at the run and maybe it was. Why didnt they go back to that look after seeing they were gashed? Because the Bears defense doesnt make any in game adjustments, its the game plan baby. Hell ive seen Turner make more in game adjustments than the defense has ever made.

 

Yeah, WTF with Tommies comments, like P said, he resigned, why resign if you dont like it here. Dude is so emotional and sensitive. Phenom talent, im not ready to give up yet though. Briggs got paid and he is playing like a bad ass, he needs to jack tommie upside his stupid face.

 

Mike Brown BLEW people up. F.

 

The Bears are 5-5 and im really pissed off at this defense. Going into this year i would be satisfied, not happy with this record, but man the last 4 weeks games have been ishy performace wise.

 

Right now, defensively the only ones I feel have done their jobs so far are Briggs and maybe Dvorcek, who played well early on but has fallen off recently. Tillman was playing great before he injured his shoulder and you might be able to say likewise with Vasher, but I thought he wasn't doing that well before the injury unlike Tillamn.

[wekse]

babich needs to go...the defense has gotten progressively worse during his time as DC.

[Banedon]

It's not fair to pick on any one person, because everyone was bad yesterday, but god Vasher looked awful.

 

Everyone on this team that got paid this season (with the exception of Gould) really has played like crap this season. Briggs started off good, but hasn't done a lot lately.

[Soul]

Vasher's just a guy who had a lot of picks one year, managed to hold it together for a 2nd year, and then got paid. I'm convinced what we're seeing now is the real Vasher. Remember, he was not all that highly touted coming out of college.

[UMFan83]

Ping, I'd seriously consider two OLs on day one. There are always a few 2nd - 3rd round guards that look good (Duke Robinson, Herman Johnson come to mind right now).

 

Agreed. I'd also look at WR early.

 

Another rant...

 

 

Is Earl Bennett worse than Davis, Booker, Hester, Lloyd, or the two TE they have lined up at WR?

 

This WR group is awful and Bennett (a 3rd rd pick) can't see the field.

 

Maybe one day Bennett will join the list of WRs that couldn't get reps with the Bears but are shining elsewhere. That list includes Justin Gage, Bobby Wade, and now Mark Bradley.

[Banedon]

Ping, I'd seriously consider two OLs on day one. There are always a few 2nd - 3rd round guards that look good (Duke Robinson, Herman Johnson come to mind right now).

 

Agreed. I'd also look at WR early.

 

Another rant...

 

 

Is Earl Bennett worse than Davis, Booker, Hester, Lloyd, or the two TE they have lined up at WR?

 

This WR group is awful and Bennett (a 3rd rd pick) can't see the field.

 

Maybe one day Bennett will join the list of WRs that couldn't get reps with the Bears but are shining elsewhere. That list includes Justin Gage, Bobby Wade, and now Mark Bradley.

 

Wait, I'd like to see Bennett out there two, but Gage and Wade are shining? I mean...they're on a good team, but aren't the Titans pretty much understood to have a bad receiving core?

 

In fact, both Gage and Wade have negative DYAR, or Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement per Football Outsiders...

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

 

Bradley's only played 5 games, and yes...I'm more upset about his loss, but I don't know that one guy translates into this trend....

[UK1679666180]

Ping, I'd seriously consider two OLs on day one. There are always a few 2nd - 3rd round guards that look good (Duke Robinson, Herman Johnson come to mind right now).

 

Agreed. I'd also look at WR early.

 

Another rant...

 

 

Is Earl Bennett worse than Davis, Booker, Hester, Lloyd, or the two TE they have lined up at WR?

 

This WR group is awful and Bennett (a 3rd rd pick) can't see the field.

 

Maybe one day Bennett will join the list of WRs that couldn't get reps with the Bears but are shining elsewhere. That list includes Justin Gage, Bobby Wade, and now Mark Bradley.

 

Moose is right about Chicago being the place where WRs go to die. Gage and Wade have done better than any Bears WR and Berrian is on pace for well over 1200 yards.

[Banedon]

Ping, I'd seriously consider two OLs on day one. There are always a few 2nd - 3rd round guards that look good (Duke Robinson, Herman Johnson come to mind right now).

 

Agreed. I'd also look at WR early.

 

Another rant...

 

 

Is Earl Bennett worse than Davis, Booker, Hester, Lloyd, or the two TE they have lined up at WR?

 

This WR group is awful and Bennett (a 3rd rd pick) can't see the field.

 

Maybe one day Bennett will join the list of WRs that couldn't get reps with the Bears but are shining elsewhere. That list includes Justin Gage, Bobby Wade, and now Mark Bradley.

 

Moose is right about Chicago being the place where WRs go to die. Gage and Wade have done better than any Bears WR and Berrian is on pace for well over 1200 yards.

 

Both Hester and Rashied Davis have better DYAR than either Gage or Wade.

[UK1679666180]

Ping, I'd seriously consider two OLs on day one. There are always a few 2nd - 3rd round guards that look good (Duke Robinson, Herman Johnson come to mind right now).

 

Agreed. I'd also look at WR early.

 

Another rant...

 

 

Is Earl Bennett worse than Davis, Booker, Hester, Lloyd, or the two TE they have lined up at WR?

 

This WR group is awful and Bennett (a 3rd rd pick) can't see the field.

 

Maybe one day Bennett will join the list of WRs that couldn't get reps with the Bears but are shining elsewhere. That list includes Justin Gage, Bobby Wade, and now Mark Bradley.

 

Moose is right about Chicago being the place where WRs go to die. Gage and Wade have done better than any Bears WR and Berrian is on pace for well over 1200 yards.

 

Both Hester and Rashied Davis have better DYAR than either Gage or Wade.

 

That stat makes no sense to me, they have Hester almost equal with Chad Johnson and Terrell Owens despite the fact that both will likely end up with 20 or more catches, more yards, and similar TDs.

 

You can't analyze based on opportunities b/c WRs often create their opportunties based on their ability to separate.

[Banedon]

Ping, I'd seriously consider two OLs on day one. There are always a few 2nd - 3rd round guards that look good (Duke Robinson, Herman Johnson come to mind right now).

 

Agreed. I'd also look at WR early.

 

Another rant...

 

 

Is Earl Bennett worse than Davis, Booker, Hester, Lloyd, or the two TE they have lined up at WR?

 

This WR group is awful and Bennett (a 3rd rd pick) can't see the field.

 

Maybe one day Bennett will join the list of WRs that couldn't get reps with the Bears but are shining elsewhere. That list includes Justin Gage, Bobby Wade, and now Mark Bradley.

 

Moose is right about Chicago being the place where WRs go to die. Gage and Wade have done better than any Bears WR and Berrian is on pace for well over 1200 yards.

 

Both Hester and Rashied Davis have better DYAR than either Gage or Wade.

 

That stat makes no sense to me, they have Hester almost equal with Chad Johnson and Terrell Owens despite the fact that both will likely end up with 20 or more catches, more yards, and similar TDs.

 

You can't analyze based on opportunities b/c WRs often create their opportunties based on their ability to separate.

 

And QB's miss open receivers or make bad throws (Grossman overthrowing a wide open Hester last week).

 

But in any case, neither Wade or Gage are in the top 40 receivers in yardage.

 

Gage has 21 rec for 376yds

Wade has 38 rec for 399yds

 

Rashied Davis has 29 for 369

 

Unless you think that Davis has been "shining", I'm not sure how you can claim that either Wade or Gage has been...

[UK1679666180]

Ping, I'd seriously consider two OLs on day one. There are always a few 2nd - 3rd round guards that look good (Duke Robinson, Herman Johnson come to mind right now).

 

Agreed. I'd also look at WR early.

 

Another rant...

 

 

Is Earl Bennett worse than Davis, Booker, Hester, Lloyd, or the two TE they have lined up at WR?

 

This WR group is awful and Bennett (a 3rd rd pick) can't see the field.

 

Maybe one day Bennett will join the list of WRs that couldn't get reps with the Bears but are shining elsewhere. That list includes Justin Gage, Bobby Wade, and now Mark Bradley.

 

Moose is right about Chicago being the place where WRs go to die. Gage and Wade have done better than any Bears WR and Berrian is on pace for well over 1200 yards.

 

Both Hester and Rashied Davis have better DYAR than either Gage or Wade.

 

That stat makes no sense to me, they have Hester almost equal with Chad Johnson and Terrell Owens despite the fact that both will likely end up with 20 or more catches, more yards, and similar TDs.

 

You can't analyze based on opportunities b/c WRs often create their opportunties based on their ability to separate.

 

And QB's miss open receivers or make bad throws (Grossman overthrowing a wide open Hester last week).

 

But in any case, neither Wade or Gage are in the top 40 receivers in yardage.

 

Gage has 21 rec for 376yds

Wade has 38 rec for 399yds

 

Rashied Davis has 29 for 369

 

Unless you think that Davis has been "shining", I'm not sure how you can claim that either Wade or Gage has been...

 

But, both of those guys were released by the Bears and are doing better than the Bears highest paid and expected to be #1 WR. Even a declining Moose is doing better. I haven't seen anything from Orton that says it's his fault, to me, it's a combo of Turner, lack of talent from what they have now, and Angelo not providing any talent.

 

None of the WRs are worth a lick, IMO, which is why I want to see Bennett.

[Banedon]

 

And QB's miss open receivers or make bad throws (Grossman overthrowing a wide open Hester last week).

 

But in any case, neither Wade or Gage are in the top 40 receivers in yardage.

 

Gage has 21 rec for 376yds

Wade has 38 rec for 399yds

 

Rashied Davis has 29 for 369

 

Unless you think that Davis has been "shining", I'm not sure how you can claim that either Wade or Gage has been...

 

But, both of those guys were released by the Bears and are doing better than the Bears highest paid and expected to be #1 WR. Even a declining Moose is doing better. I haven't seen anything from Orton that says it's his fault, to me, it's a combo of Turner, lack of talent from what they have now, and Angelo not providing any talent.

 

None of the WRs are worth a lick, IMO, which is why I want to see Bennett.

 

I don't know if they're doing better...but certainly just as good....

 

Hester is 26 for 318...they have a few more yards, but I get your point.

 

I'm just saying that the problem isn't losing Gage and Wade. They aren't any great loss. The problem is a poor job replacing them.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Mark Bradley has been doing well In KC..what was the point of cutting him? This coaching staff is brutal at developing players. .

[UMFan83]

My point was that these were players that were given little to no opportunity with the Bears and after leaving the Bears have found lots of playing time on other teams. I want them to play Bennett before they make the same mistake with him. Previously, I would say something like "Obviously Bennett isn't showing enough in practice to earn playing time", but after watching Bradley's first few games with KC, and seeing the quotes KC players are saying about him, I can't use this excuse anymore.

[BigbadB]

Are we honestly talking about Bobby Wade? My, how quickly we forget just how bad he was in a Bears uniform. They didn't get rid of him quickly enough, IMO.

 

Changing the discussion back to the defense, I'd like to say that Vasher isn't really any different than he has ever been. He's not a great DB, but he's not horrible, either. A defensive back can only be as good as the defensive line and their pass rush.

 

Let's take a look at Quentin Jammer and Antonio Cromartie. The Chargers pass rush this year is nothing like the pass rush they have had the past few years. Cromartie had 10 interceptions in 10 games last year. He has zero this year.

 

If you can't hurry the QB, and get him to throw off his back foot, professional QB's can pinpoint their passes and the best DB's in the world will look like burnt toast more often than they will look like all stars.

 

Without a pass rush of any significance, the rest of the defense will be exposed.

[UMFan83]

They got rid of Bobby Wade because he couldn't field a punt to save his life, and they already long since determined he didn't deserve to play as a WR, so he had no place to go with the Bears.

 

Now he went to Minnesota, and became a serviceable receiver...and probably someone good enough to start for this current Bears team.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

They got rid of Bobby Wade because he couldn't field a punt to save his life, and they already long since determined he didn't deserve to play as a WR, so he had no place to go with the Bears.

 

Now he went to Minnesota, and became a serviceable receiver...and probably someone good enough to start for this current Bears team.

You are being ridiculous now. Bobby Wade is trash.

[jersey cubs fan]

Are we honestly talking about Bobby Wade? My, how quickly we forget just how bad he was in a Bears uniform. They didn't get rid of him quickly enough, IMO.

 

Changing the discussion back to the defense, I'd like to say that Vasher isn't really any different than he has ever been. He's not a great DB, but he's not horrible, either. A defensive back can only be as good as the defensive line and their pass rush.

 

Let's take a look at Quentin Jammer and Antonio Cromartie. The Chargers pass rush this year is nothing like the pass rush they have had the past few years. Cromartie had 10 interceptions in 10 games last year. He has zero this year.

 

If you can't hurry the QB, and get him to throw off his back foot, professional QB's can pinpoint their passes and the best DB's in the world will look like burnt toast more often than they will look like all stars.

 

Without a pass rush of any significance, the rest of the defense will be exposed.

 

Bobby Wade was an okay possession receiver who got cut because he dropped too many punts. He's hardly thrived away from Chicago though. As for your point on Vasher, it's not like the Bears are getting beat by QBs standing in the pocket for 6-7 seconds. They aren't pressuring the QB, but Vasher isn't covering guys either. They are getting beat on quick pass plays for the most part, which is very much a secondary problem.

[BigbadB]

Are we honestly talking about Bobby Wade? My, how quickly we forget just how bad he was in a Bears uniform. They didn't get rid of him quickly enough, IMO.

 

Changing the discussion back to the defense, I'd like to say that Vasher isn't really any different than he has ever been. He's not a great DB, but he's not horrible, either. A defensive back can only be as good as the defensive line and their pass rush.

 

Let's take a look at Quentin Jammer and Antonio Cromartie. The Chargers pass rush this year is nothing like the pass rush they have had the past few years. Cromartie had 10 interceptions in 10 games last year. He has zero this year.

 

If you can't hurry the QB, and get him to throw off his back foot, professional QB's can pinpoint their passes and the best DB's in the world will look like burnt toast more often than they will look like all stars.

 

Without a pass rush of any significance, the rest of the defense will be exposed.

 

Bobby Wade was an okay possession receiver who got cut because he dropped too many punts. He's hardly thrived away from Chicago though. As for your point on Vasher, it's not like the Bears are getting beat by QBs standing in the pocket for 6-7 seconds. They aren't pressuring the QB, but Vasher isn't covering guys either. They are getting beat on quick pass plays for the most part, which is very much a secondary problem.

 

To be fair, I said he was neither a great DB or a bad DB. I still think the biggest problem with the current DB's is the pass rush. Since there isn't a pass rush of any significance, the QB's confidence level is through the roof and he feels like he can accomplish anything in the pocket.

 

Only the receiver knows where he is going. The DB has to guess where the receiver is going. This gives the receiver a significant advantage on pass routes. What gives the DB a fighting chance against the receiver is pass pressure. If you can't flush the QB out of the pocket, hurry his pass, knock him on his butt, etc.... the success rate of pass plays will be much higher for the offense. If there is no disruption of a passing play, the play will likely be completed, which is exactly what we are seeing.

[UK1679666180]

 

And QB's miss open receivers or make bad throws (Grossman overthrowing a wide open Hester last week).

 

But in any case, neither Wade or Gage are in the top 40 receivers in yardage.

 

Gage has 21 rec for 376yds

Wade has 38 rec for 399yds

 

Rashied Davis has 29 for 369

 

Unless you think that Davis has been "shining", I'm not sure how you can claim that either Wade or Gage has been...

 

But, both of those guys were released by the Bears and are doing better than the Bears highest paid and expected to be #1 WR. Even a declining Moose is doing better. I haven't seen anything from Orton that says it's his fault, to me, it's a combo of Turner, lack of talent from what they have now, and Angelo not providing any talent.

 

None of the WRs are worth a lick, IMO, which is why I want to see Bennett.

 

I don't know if they're doing better...but certainly just as good....

 

Hester is 26 for 318...they have a few more yards, but I get your point.

 

I'm just saying that the problem isn't losing Gage and Wade. They aren't any great loss. The problem is a poor job replacing them.

 

My point is they go onto other teams and do better than they did here and often better than the ones who replaced them, something isn't adding up here, which is why I'm mad that they are not Bennett more of a chance. Find out if he is crap, we already know that Booker, Lloyd, Davis, Hester, etc. are bad, if they were better we wouldn't have Olsen and Clark split out on every pass play.

[UK1679666180]

I think Vasher has regressed this year, whether it be by design or himself, he does not jam WRs at the line and doesn't have the speed or the agility of top DBs to make up for it.

 

The best asset with Vasher was his instincts and this scheme has taken that away from him.

[Soul]

Are we honestly talking about Bobby Wade? My, how quickly we forget just how bad he was in a Bears uniform. They didn't get rid of him quickly enough, IMO.

 

Changing the discussion back to the defense, I'd like to say that Vasher isn't really any different than he has ever been. He's not a great DB, but he's not horrible, either. A defensive back can only be as good as the defensive line and their pass rush.

 

Let's take a look at Quentin Jammer and Antonio Cromartie. The Chargers pass rush this year is nothing like the pass rush they have had the past few years. Cromartie had 10 interceptions in 10 games last year. He has zero this year.

 

If you can't hurry the QB, and get him to throw off his back foot, professional QB's can pinpoint their passes and the best DB's in the world will look like burnt toast more often than they will look like all stars.

 

Without a pass rush of any significance, the rest of the defense will be exposed.

 

Bobby Wade was an okay possession receiver who got cut because he dropped too many punts. He's hardly thrived away from Chicago though. As for your point on Vasher, it's not like the Bears are getting beat by QBs standing in the pocket for 6-7 seconds. They aren't pressuring the QB, but Vasher isn't covering guys either. They are getting beat on quick pass plays for the most part, which is very much a secondary problem.

 

To be fair, I said he was neither a great DB or a bad DB. I still think the biggest problem with the current DB's is the pass rush. Since there isn't a pass rush of any significance, the QB's confidence level is through the roof and he feels like he can accomplish anything in the pocket.

 

Only the receiver knows where he is going. The DB has to guess where the receiver is going. This gives the receiver a significant advantage on pass routes. What gives the DB a fighting chance against the receiver is pass pressure. If you can't flush the QB out of the pocket, hurry his pass, knock him on his butt, etc.... the success rate of pass plays will be much higher for the offense. If there is no disruption of a passing play, the play will likely be completed, which is exactly what we are seeing.

I don't disagree, but I've seen Vash get juked right out of his shoes on quick outs and jersey's right -- he doesn't cover well on the quick throws to his side. Those don't have much to do with pass rush. They're plays where you just have to have good corners to shut them down.

 

At least when Till gets beat on a quick throw he's punching the ball out.

[Soul]

Some of the comments coming from Lovie are, in my opinion, very disturbing.

 

"You just have to hand it to the Packers."

 

--oh really? 34 point drubbing and you just hand it to the other team? That's like admitting we suck. I could see if they made a few great plays to win by 7. Losing by 34 points to any team says as much about your lack of effort and planning as it does about the other team playing well.

 

"They just covered us, that's about it."

 

--no, you just had no plan to get them open.

 

 

I'm telling you, this isn't the same coach who led this team out of the darkness 3-4 years ago. As much as you can say Tommie Harris took the money and ran, I'm starting to think the same thing about Lovie Smith. Seriously, he hasn't been the same since he got paid, same as some of our players. I've just about had it with him. Give me solutions, not more "tipping your cap" BS.

 

I have found whenever you see lack of effort, lack of performance, 9 times out of 10 you will find the real problems start with the management. I have very little doubt this team's struggles are starting at the top. Lovie and his staff are failing this franchise. It's trickling right on down to the players.

[RedFlash]

Some of the comments coming from Lovie are, in my opinion, very disturbing.

 

"You just have to hand it to the Packers."

 

--oh really? 34 point drubbing and you just hand it to the other team? That's like admitting we suck. I could see if they made a few great plays to win by 7. Losing by 34 points to any team says as much about your lack of effort and planning as it does about the other team playing well.

 

"They just covered us, that's about it."

 

--no, you just had no plan to get them open.

 

 

I'm telling you, this isn't the same coach who led this team out of the darkness 3-4 years ago. As much as you can say Tommie Harris took the money and ran, I'm starting to think the same thing about Lovie Smith. Seriously, he hasn't been the same since he got paid, same as some of our players. I've just about had it with him. Give me solutions, not more "tipping your cap" BS.

 

I have found whenever you see lack of effort, lack of performance, 9 times out of 10 you will find the real problems start with the management. I have very little doubt this team's struggles are starting at the top. Lovie and his staff are failing this franchise. It's trickling right on down to the players.

 

Those comments by Love has a certain Dusty logic to it. How a coach can be so nonchalant about a blow out loss is quite disturbing.