College Football - Week of 10/18

[TruffleShuffle]

Fine, IU is definitely as bad as Mississippi State. If Illinois or Wisconsin lose to them feel free to not acknowledge those wins against them as nothing but garbage

 

Feel free to kill me too. Bad enough we're looking at a 7-5 season right now.

 

Just an FYI, it's Mississippi that beat Florida and the Rebels also beat Wake Forest (a top 25 team right now). They're not terrible - not good per say, but also not terrible.

 

they didn't beat wake forest.

[dew1679666265]

Fine, IU is definitely as bad as Mississippi State. If Illinois or Wisconsin lose to them feel free to not acknowledge those wins against them as nothing but garbage

 

Feel free to kill me too. Bad enough we're looking at a 7-5 season right now.

 

Just an FYI, it's Mississippi that beat Florida and the Rebels also beat Wake Forest (a top 25 team right now). They're not terrible - not good per say, but also not terrible.

 

they didn't beat wake forest.

 

My bad, they almost did and should have. Still though, a win over Florida and near win over Wake is not the sign of a terrible team.

[snoodmonger]

Someone on another board posted this, and I thought it was kind of interesting.

 

 

The results of the last 12 FSU/Miami games combined with the results of the Texas/OU games ... kind of a bizarre coincidence:

 

2008: FSU and Texas win

2007: Miami and OU win

2006: FSU and Texas win

2005: FSU and Texas win

2004: Miami and OU win

2003: Miami and OU win

2002: Miami and OU win

2001: Miami and OU win

2000: Miami and OU win

1999: FSU and Texas win

1998: FSU and Texas win

1997: FSU and Texas win

[TruffleShuffle]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc08.htm?loc=interstitialskip

 

big ten is #3 conference, sec is #1, big xii is #2. the pac 10 is #5. if usc didn't have that loss against oregon st, would we be having this discussion - should florida be in the national championship game ahead of an undefeated usc?

 

It'd be justifiable. It wouldn't happen, but it could be justified.

 

All the more reason why we need a playoff.

 

right, i'm just saying that this is the problem with the current system. nobody would be talking about "hey florida has better wins than usc" even though usc's best three wins would be home vs ohio st, home vs oregon, and something like home vs cal or road vs arizona. those are no better than psu's three best wins will be this year. but everyone thought usc was great coming into this year, whereas very few people thought penn state was very good, let alone great. we can play a full college season and people's view would still be affected by their preseason expectations.

[Mephistopheles]

man byu > uf for sure.

[dew1679666265]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc08.htm?loc=interstitialskip

 

big ten is #3 conference, sec is #1, big xii is #2. the pac 10 is #5. if usc didn't have that loss against oregon st, would we be having this discussion - should florida be in the national championship game ahead of an undefeated usc?

 

It'd be justifiable. It wouldn't happen, but it could be justified.

 

All the more reason why we need a playoff.

 

right, i'm just saying that this is the problem with the current system. nobody would be talking about "hey florida has better wins than usc" even though usc's best three wins would be home vs ohio st, home vs oregon, and something like home vs cal or road vs arizona. those are no better than psu's three best wins will be this year. but everyone thought usc was great coming into this year, whereas very few people thought penn state was very good, let alone great. we can play a full college season and people's view would still be affected by their preseason expectations.

 

I agree that this system is very flawed and lends itself to far more debate than we would have with a playoff.

 

My preconception before the season was that USC was better than Penn State. That being said, neither has a very impressive schedule as things look right now (save wins over OSU) and neither would have wins like Florida's wins over Bama and Georgia (going back to our hypothetical). So ultimately, I could see the justification in Florida jumping either. That said, though, I agree that most wouldn't agree with me.

[TruffleShuffle]

man byu > uf for sure.

 

yeah that michigan-florida capital one bowl will be no contest.

[weis21]

man byu > uf for sure.

 

yeah that michigan-florida capital one bowl will be no contest.

How's Texas A & M doing this year?

[Guest]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc08.htm?loc=interstitialskip

 

big ten is #3 conference, sec is #1, big xii is #2. the pac 10 is #5. if usc didn't have that loss against oregon st, would we be having this discussion - should florida be in the national championship game ahead of an undefeated usc?

 

No, because USC actually decided to schedule teams that aren't mediocre at best in their OOC schedule.

[TruffleShuffle]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc08.htm?loc=interstitialskip

 

big ten is #3 conference, sec is #1, big xii is #2. the pac 10 is #5. if usc didn't have that loss against oregon st, would we be having this discussion - should florida be in the national championship game ahead of an undefeated usc?

 

No, because USC actually decided to schedule teams that aren't mediocre at best in their OOC schedule.

 

careful, usc ended up losing to one of those teams that's mediocre at best. and by the way, virginia is bad this year and usc plays syracuse in their OOC in a couple of years. sometimes teams that turn out to be mediocre at best don't look that way when the schedule is drawn up. high-profile teams decide to play a certain non-conference schedule years in advance; sometimes that schedule turns out to be a dud. texas' toughest non-conference game this year was arkansas, who isn't good. granted the big xii is very good this year, especially the south, but there have been years (2005, 2006) when the big xii was just middle of the road, and a non-conference schedule with mediocre arkansas plus the big xii schedule would have been average difficulty at best. texas' toughest non-conference game next year is a home affair against ucla; chances are they won't have to break a sweat in that one.

 

i'd like to see psu play at least two somewhat difficult non-conference games and while they didn't do that this year, they pretty much did what they could by dumping arkansas state and bringing in oregon st. it's not like an oklahoma or florida were sitting around with room on their schedule saying "hey i wonder if someone else wants to play us this year."

[Mephistopheles]

Florida's out of conference schedule included Miami, Florida State and Hawaii. Most of these games are scheduled well in advance of this season (when FSU and Miami are good). The three teams have combined for 10 BCS appearances this decade. USC's non conference has 8. Florida tried to schedule 3 games against OOC opponents that are good, but because these games were scheduled five or so years ago, when two of the teams were practically BCS and top 10 locks, you cant really blame UF for not scheduling tougher OOC games.

 

Im not saying their OOC schedule is tough. I am saying they tried to make a tough one, which you said they did not. SC's OOC really isnt that good. Rankings in Sagarin.

 

SC's

18 Ohio State

42 Notre Dame

62 Virginia

 

Not terrible, but not outstanding.

[Guest]

Your scenario was if USC had beaten Oregon State and was undefeated.

 

And that doesn't just go for this year with USC vs. Penn State in non-conference games, it goes for the last bunch of years.

 

USC always plays Notre Dame who can be good but has been down the last couple years. They played at Virginia this year and hosted Ohio State (and are going to Columbus next year). They had a home-and-away with Nebraska in 06-07 and with Arkansas in 05-06. At Va Tech in 04. Home-and-away with Auburn in 02 and 03 as well as at Colorado and at Kansas State in 02.

 

Meanwhile, Penn State doesn't even try to play good teams. Sure they played Notre Dame for a couple years and they played a home-and-away with Nebraska in 02 and 03, but after that, it's a steady diet of Temple, Akron, Central Florida (the 0-11 variety) and some DI-AA schools.

 

I realize that things don't always work out and teams sometimes aren't as good as expected. But at least Virginia has the chance to be good, unlike Temple, Coastal Carolina and Florida International.

[TruffleShuffle]

Florida's out of conference schedule included Miami, Florida State and Hawaii. Most of these games are scheduled well in advance of this season (when FSU and Miami are good). The three teams have combined for 10 BCS appearances this decade. USC's non conference has 8. Florida tried to schedule 3 games against OOC opponents that are good, but because these games were scheduled five or so years ago, when two of the teams were practically BCS and top 10 locks, you cant really blame UF for not scheduling tougher OOC games.

 

Im not saying their OOC schedule is tough. I am saying they tried to make a tough one, which you said they did not. SC's OOC really isnt that good. Rankings in Sagarin.

 

SC's

18 Ohio State

42 Notre Dame

62 Virginia

 

Not terrible, but not outstanding.

 

miami and florida state i can buy, but hawai'i? come on, they weren't thinking "here's a tough non-conference team we can play," they were thinking "here's a wac school that goes 8-4 every year and then wins the hawai'i bowl, but is notoriously bad on the mainland, especially when traveling longer distances." but yes, when you have miami and fsu on your non-conference schedule, you can expect to play a difficult schedule. i'm not taking florida to task for playing an easy schedule in or out of conference, but i do have a big problem with them losing to ole miss.

 

and again, i wish psu would schedule another legitimate game every year. they do try to schedule one each year - nebraska and miami in the late '90s and early '00s, notre dame the last two years, syracuse (who it turns out is awful) this year and next. the problem i have is that if that "real" non-conference opponent is down, then your non-conference schedule - which they usually fill out with mac schools, temple (so tired of playing them) and a i-aa team here and there - is a joke. if the conference is strong then it's not a huge deal, but if the big ten is down, then the schedule is really lame and you're not going to get a whole lot of respect. the only year i can remember playing two legitimate bcs teams was in 2003 when we hosted boston college and then went to nebraska.

[Mephistopheles]

Im pretty sure Penn State played Oregon State this year.

 

 

And kicked their ass.

 

and then Oregon State kicked USCs ass. The argument may have applied in years past but those two events render it obsolete this year. Im not saying PSU is better than USC and I am not saying PSU going undefeated means theyre a top 2 team, Im just saying that you cant really gripe about PSUs non conference schedule this year, when at the end of the season well probably see the Oregon State (the best OOC PSU played) ranked ahead of OSU (the best OOC USC played) and PSU would have beaten both common opponents.

[Mephistopheles]

if UF kicks an extra point we're not even having this conversation, which makes this all stupid. like wins and losses.

[TruffleShuffle]

USC always plays Notre Dame who can be good but has been down the last couple years. They played at Virginia this year and hosted Ohio State (and are going to Columbus next year). They had a home-and-away with Nebraska in 06-07 and with Arkansas in 05-06. At Va Tech in 04. Home-and-away with Auburn in 02 and 03 as well as at Colorado and at Kansas State in 02.

 

oh usc is one team i would never take to task for playing a weak non-conference schedule. i would guess that if you look at their OOC schedule the last ten years, it's as hard as anybody's in the country. however, i'd argue that a lot of the prominent sec, big xii and acc schools have a habit of doing the same thing - scheduling a slate of duds out of conference.

 

I realize that things don't always work out and teams sometimes aren't as good as expected. But at least Virginia has the chance to be good, unlike Temple, Coastal Carolina and Florida International.

 

occasionally the MAC slot machine pays out and our game against akron or toledo turns out to look not-bad in hindsight, but yeah, if psu is average or better in the big ten, they're scheduling at least three auto-wins in the non-conference schedule, and that annoys me.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

if UF kicks an extra point we're not even having this conversation, which makes this all stupid. like wins and losses.

 

IT'S THE DEFINING PURPOSE OF THE GAME

[Derwood]

if UF kicks an extra point we're not even having this conversation, which makes this all stupid. like wins and losses.

 

IT'S THE DEFINING PURPOSE OF THE GAME

 

you're missing his point.

 

oh, and I can't wait for 2 or 3 years from now when PSU plays Alabama OOC but Alabama happens to be 4-8 that year and then everyone bitches about how PSU never schedules anyone good for OOC

[TruffleShuffle]

if UF kicks an extra point we're not even having this conversation, which makes this all stupid. like wins and losses.

 

IT'S THE DEFINING PURPOSE OF THE GAME

 

you're missing his point.

 

oh, and I can't wait for 2 or 3 years from now when PSU plays Alabama OOC but Alabama happens to be 4-8 that year and then everyone bitches about how PSU never schedules anyone good for OOC

 

if nick saban is still there - and given his history, that's a big if - alabama will not be 4-8.

[Derwood]

if UF kicks an extra point we're not even having this conversation, which makes this all stupid. like wins and losses.

 

IT'S THE DEFINING PURPOSE OF THE GAME

 

you're missing his point.

 

oh, and I can't wait for 2 or 3 years from now when PSU plays Alabama OOC but Alabama happens to be 4-8 that year and then everyone bitches about how PSU never schedules anyone good for OOC

 

if nick saban is still there - and given his history, that's a big if - alabama will not be 4-8.

 

nick saban will change jobs two more times before then

[SouthSideRyan]

Fine, IU is definitely as bad as Mississippi State. If Illinois or Wisconsin lose to them feel free to not acknowledge those wins against them as nothing but garbage

 

Feel free to kill me too. Bad enough we're looking at a 7-5 season right now.

 

Just an FYI, it's Mississippi that beat Florida and the Rebels also beat Wake Forest (a top 25 team right now). They're not terrible - not good per say, but also not terrible.

 

I was talking about counting Vandy as a quality win when they lost to the worst team in the SEC. That's why I reference Illinois and Wisconsin as wins over them were [expletive] upon.

[dew1679666265]

Fine, IU is definitely as bad as Mississippi State. If Illinois or Wisconsin lose to them feel free to not acknowledge those wins against them as nothing but garbage

 

Feel free to kill me too. Bad enough we're looking at a 7-5 season right now.

 

Just an FYI, it's Mississippi that beat Florida and the Rebels also beat Wake Forest (a top 25 team right now). They're not terrible - not good per say, but also not terrible.

 

I was talking about counting Vandy as a quality win when they lost to the worst team in the SEC. That's why I reference Illinois and Wisconsin as wins over them were Howry upon.

 

Ah, gotcha. I agree that Vandy is not yet a quality win. They are basically as good as Auburn and Tennessee and neither of those two teams are a quality win either. The only difference between the three is that Vandy played complete crap for the most part and are overachieving to be as good as the other two.

[NewUserName]

The heart of all this argument lies in the fallacy that either the poll system or the Bowl system were designed to create an actual without a doubt National Champion. The poll system was created by the press to help sell papers by creating debate, the bowl system was a money making "exhibition". Any attempt to create an actual without a doubt NC through these systems will always fail. Makes for fun debate though.

[cubweiser03]

if UF kicks an extra point we're not even having this conversation, which makes this all stupid. like wins and losses.

If the queen had balls.

 

Even such as simple task/event as an extra point can't be excluded from determining the outcome of the game. Who is to say they kick the PAT and still end up losing the game in OT. That event alone wouldnt of won the game for them.

[Mephistopheles]

59.0% TCU over #9 BYU - TCU W, 32-7

92.8% #15 Boise State over Hawaii - BSU 10-7, Half

91.9% #7 Texas Tech over Texas A&M - 12:00 EST

79.9% #21 Wake Forest over Maryland - 12:00 EST

90.6% #19 South Florida over Syracuse - 12:00 EST

78.6% #10 Georgia over #22 Vanderbilt - 12:30 EST

81.0% #8 Oklahoma State over Baylor - 3:00 EST

89.2% #2 Alabama over Ole Miss - 3:30 EST

87.3% #4 Oklahoma over #16 Kansas - 3:30 EST

99.8% #6 USC over Washington State - 3:30 EST

58.8% #20 Michigan State over #12 Ohio State - 3:30 EST

70.6% #18 North Carolina over Virginia - 3:30 EST

57.5% Navy over #23 Pittsburgh - 3:30 EST

98.0% #3 Penn State over Michigan - 4:30 EST

83.6% #1 Texas over #11 Missouri - 8:00 EST

52.2% South Carolina over #13 LSU - 8:00 EST

69.4% Boston College over #17 Virginia Tech - 8:00 EST

51.8% Arizona over #25 California - 10:00 EST

 

Upset Alert

Game of the Week

 

Had the BYU game...